To all Beta Backers
- Thread starter Mobius
- Start date
Robert Maynard
Volunteer Moderator
Yeah, sack all the Alpha testers ... wait ... what?
Not to worry, there are no Alpha testers at the moment - they have donned new flight suits and are Beta testers!
Don't throw the old suit away though, it may be needed in the future....
The DDF Archive is publicly available and a lot of fun to read.
It's actually a good place to start for people wanting more information on what has been agreed. It's worth remember a lot in there are the proposals. The stickies are more or less what has been agreed.
It's actually a good place to start for people wanting more information on what has been agreed. It's worth remember a lot in there are the proposals. The stickies are more or less what has been agreed.
Kinda of an elitist attitude. When hasn't a fresh influx of players ever not blast the forums with duplicate threads, or even worse necro some serious out of date information that causes even more confusion. Just because folks joined at a different price point doesn't make them better or worse. Many things were put behind backers logins, but luckily many decent streamers presented enough to get folks really interested. Enjoy the vastly different insurance rates, that's ridiculous. The game is Elite
I would have loved to know about it during the kickstarter days and would have backed it then if I had known at the alpha level, but post kickstarter just seemed better to wait. Being an original Elite player, I had the funds to.
I think you missed the point of Mobius's post. It's not an elitist attitude, it is one that benefits everyone. If people took the time (and that is the issue with internet behaviour) to look, they would likely find that all these things have been discussed and conclusions reached, or even decisions/reasons made or given by the devs.
Alas "internet behaviour" seems to accept people just making a new thread instead and thus creating many many threads about the same thing.
It has nothing to do with price point.
Alien has experience.
I remember how she felt when all we kickstarter backers came in, so she's had to deal with it before. And she'll deal with it again.
As will we.
Ah yes ... this forum was such a quiet place. The tumbleweed. The Star Wars thread. Ah those were the days.
1. I can't blame them for not finding anything in the search function because as we all know, that function is very poor in these forums.
2. Betans have as much right of post as anyone else, as long as they follow the forum rules, like everyone else.
3. Even before Beta started, the vast majority of posts were reposts of issues already raised by others. What is happening in Beta forums is just a continuation of what has happened in the past but - at a larger scale due to the increased beta population.
4. It will get worse. In general, the DDF/Alphans are amongst the most dedicated fans of the game and as such, are least likely (in general) to discredit the game. As we move down the testing levels, and into the gamma phase, the population will not only oversaturate the voices of the DDF/Alphans purely based on numbers, but that population's own dedication to ED will be weaker when compared to the DDF/Alphans.
5. I also think to some extent there is an element here of LETS - Lost Exclusivity Trauma Syndrome (yea, I just made that one up). For 6 months the DDF/Alphans have had this toy all to themselves, and some have grown quite accustomed to that exclusivity. Now that has gone and ED has been released to the rabbling masses, all attention has shifted from the DDF/Alpha to the the Beta - indeed the Alphans have transformed into Betans themselves. Rather than welcome this transformation as a closer step in reaching the final release, based on some comments I've read, some are still looking back to the 'old Alpha days where everything was how it should be'.
6. Well, theres always pizza & beer to send FD, and make no mistake, FD will always love DDF/Alphans the most. In general, the Alphans have been great and provided fantastic support and resources over the past 6 months. Im sure most non-Alphans recognise this, and we bow our heads to you all. Now lets all join hands and march forward together (oh dear).
2. Betans have as much right of post as anyone else, as long as they follow the forum rules, like everyone else.
3. Even before Beta started, the vast majority of posts were reposts of issues already raised by others. What is happening in Beta forums is just a continuation of what has happened in the past but - at a larger scale due to the increased beta population.
4. It will get worse. In general, the DDF/Alphans are amongst the most dedicated fans of the game and as such, are least likely (in general) to discredit the game. As we move down the testing levels, and into the gamma phase, the population will not only oversaturate the voices of the DDF/Alphans purely based on numbers, but that population's own dedication to ED will be weaker when compared to the DDF/Alphans.
5. I also think to some extent there is an element here of LETS - Lost Exclusivity Trauma Syndrome (yea, I just made that one up). For 6 months the DDF/Alphans have had this toy all to themselves, and some have grown quite accustomed to that exclusivity. Now that has gone and ED has been released to the rabbling masses, all attention has shifted from the DDF/Alpha to the the Beta - indeed the Alphans have transformed into Betans themselves. Rather than welcome this transformation as a closer step in reaching the final release, based on some comments I've read, some are still looking back to the 'old Alpha days where everything was how it should be'.
6. Well, theres always pizza & beer to send FD, and make no mistake, FD will always love DDF/Alphans the most. In general, the Alphans have been great and provided fantastic support and resources over the past 6 months. Im sure most non-Alphans recognise this, and we bow our heads to you all. Now lets all join hands and march forward together (oh dear).
Yeah appreciate it isn't always easy to find stuff that's a fair point.
But stuff is available to read through, like in the DDF Archives and so on.
I think its the posts that go:
"I think the [insert major game mechanic here] sucks, it should be changed". These just seem ill judged as they are as useful, no matter how well intended, as asking for the game to be ships on an ocean rather than a space game, ain't happening.
So it's about using a little common sense and politeness, querying for reasons or making minor improvement/tweaking suggestions. Remembering it is BETA and not in blueprint design phase, mass tear it up and start again type suggestions are just of no use and create badly mannered threads.
Issue is internet posting behaviour tends to make people revert to "rip it all up or I will go Raaaah".
It doesn't excuse anyone replying "USE THE DAMN SEARCH FUNCTION FOR CRYING OUT LOUD".
I just saw another thread regarding a galaxy map bug. I replied it was two known bugs (and possibly now a third) and linked to the first thread about it in the Beta forum, which is how I've handled every thread I've seen on the galaxy map bug. This way I a) Let them now it's a known bug b) Link to an existing thread about it c) Update them on when it might be fixed, if ever afaik
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same for me I only found out in january there was a new elite being made I for one do not make such threads, unless I have actually something interesting to say
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i would have thought that was a design feature? to make sure you had enough power to everything for when you came out of Freespace?
Sorry Mobius, I think you just got foot-in-mouth disease!
I can understand your frustration but I'm afraid that this post hasn't helped and I agree with Alien's response.
Basically, blaming people who have just arrived for not knowing the ropes is a bit of bad form. We were all new on here at one point.
Anyway, welcome to all of the new "Premium Beta" testers (yes, not backers). May you find many bugs, ticket them and help make the game a good one when it's finished.
It would have been useful for Frontier to have produced a "story so far" summary of the state of play, as in what's working, what's broken, what's yet to come etc. but they didn't so those of use who have witnessed the spinning orange ship of death will have to help out the new recruits as best we can. Maybe we can bore them with stories of legendary bugs and the great deads needed to defeat them? Maybe not.
Actually, this could turn into a Monty Python "Yorkshiremen" sketch...
Eh, when I were playin' Alpha 2 you had to wait half an hour for the ship to stop spinning, and then it's be a crash to desktop. And, you know, I was grateful!
OK, I'll stop now.
I can understand your frustration but I'm afraid that this post hasn't helped and I agree with Alien's response.
Basically, blaming people who have just arrived for not knowing the ropes is a bit of bad form. We were all new on here at one point.
Anyway, welcome to all of the new "Premium Beta" testers (yes, not backers). May you find many bugs, ticket them and help make the game a good one when it's finished.
It would have been useful for Frontier to have produced a "story so far" summary of the state of play, as in what's working, what's broken, what's yet to come etc. but they didn't so those of use who have witnessed the spinning orange ship of death will have to help out the new recruits as best we can. Maybe we can bore them with stories of legendary bugs and the great deads needed to defeat them? Maybe not.
Actually, this could turn into a Monty Python "Yorkshiremen" sketch...
Eh, when I were playin' Alpha 2 you had to wait half an hour for the ship to stop spinning, and then it's be a crash to desktop. And, you know, I was grateful!
OK, I'll stop now.
You got it loaded in half an hour?? You were lucky! I'd load t' game in't morning and were happy if I got to play it before bedtime...
The problem isn't any of the peoples fault as such. The forums are a mess with stickies and what not. There needs to be a clear and obvious 'one stop' section that holds all the relevant information. It needs to be easy to find and easy to read and understand. Without this resource, there will always be people posting repeat threads.
Mobius, in an ideal world maybe... but no. While the DDF did wonderful work, the context has now changed. Discussion starting now is in context of the implementation, not the design. That you have done design work and can bring that to the conversation is fantastic, and invaluable.
The context has changed, don't beat yourself up because beta testers don't have to pass a "closed book exam" on the DDF content before posting a thread.
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Understand OP's POV
But a lot of new joiners just aren't familiar with all the info or discussions out there.
For example, I just found out about the FAQ in the wikia page here: http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Elite:_Dangerous_FAQ
So, the approach is to just direct new joiners to where all the goodie info are. The benefit of which will keep the beta forum less cluttered.
Also, to re-open a design discussion it would be in good form to refer to prior discussions (or make an apology for not having done so) and state that you would like to reopen the discussion to new participants. There is still room to shape the designs.
Flin
But a lot of new joiners just aren't familiar with all the info or discussions out there.
For example, I just found out about the FAQ in the wikia page here: http://elite-dangerous.wikia.com/wiki/Elite:_Dangerous_FAQ
So, the approach is to just direct new joiners to where all the goodie info are. The benefit of which will keep the beta forum less cluttered.
Also, to re-open a design discussion it would be in good form to refer to prior discussions (or make an apology for not having done so) and state that you would like to reopen the discussion to new participants. There is still room to shape the designs.
Flin
The later part of your post is as repetitive and tedious to most betas as them 'praising/complaining' ED is to you.
But your opening statement is a new low in alpha condescension towards anyone who's only just getting on board.
Well played.
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Context
It really would have been useful.
Perhaps some frustrated Alphas would like to take this task on, as an investment with the pay-off that it should reduce the duplication on the forums?
It would have been useful for Frontier to have produced a "story so far" summary of the state of play, as in what's working, what's broken, what's yet to come etc. but they didn't so those of use who have witnessed the spinning orange ship of death will have to help out the new recruits as best we can. Maybe we can bore them with stories of legendary bugs and the great deads needed to defeat them? Maybe not.
It really would have been useful.
Perhaps some frustrated Alphas would like to take this task on, as an investment with the pay-off that it should reduce the duplication on the forums?
