***POLL NOW CLOSED*** IMPORTANT, OFFICIAL SHIP TRANSFER POLL

[Tsao Nima]

Players who would require some reward to click on a 2 option poll don't deserve to have their opinions taken in consideration.

Players should vote because they are interested in the feature implementation, not to get a cookie.

It'd be nice if people acted like that, but in the real world people need incentives. It's really easy to get people to vote against their own interests if you don't give them every reason to speak up; we all probably have some recent examples of that in our communities.

 

[Cajuncontroller]

For me its not about immersion or realism. You could justify the realism of instant transfer by simply stating that the Station receives credit for your old ship, and they simply build you a new one at the current location. Yes it does fall down a little when it comes to them not normally having the parts or engineer mods, etc. But you can sort of understand.

This....^

 

[Anshez]

I would say base the time on required jump x minute.

 

[Mungrul]

I'm disappointed it's being put to a vote on the forums, as I still posit that the majority don't visit them.
In addition, I can see a lot of people voting to add the delay, but I truly believe that after a few months play, people who are for the delay now will simply be irritated by it after prolonged exposure. Will there be an option to remove the delay if the community vote for it but eventually express frustration with it?

In closing, I honestly think developers should go with their first instinct with a non-implemented feature and only allow voting on it once it's in the game. Players voting without any experience of a live implementation are voting in the dark.

 

[Adhock]

We’re very happy and excited to be bringing ship transfer into Elite: Dangerous, as we feel that it offers dramatic improvements to game play, by allowing Commanders more freedom to have the right tools (ships) at the right place...

...Clearly, the benefit of instant transfer is that, assuming you have the credit funds, you always have the appropriate ship to hand at all times.

That is awesome and exactly what people have been looking for!

However, there’s clearly a lot of folk that are not so happy about our choice of implementation: specifically the concept that your ships can be summoned to your current starport instantly. Whilst most folk seem to be on board with the idea of transporting ships to your location, the time transfer takes has raised some concerns.

...WHAT THE EVER LOVING ...?

I will summarise for reference the main concerns that have been raised about having instant ship transfer:

* Instant transfer is likely to have a less plausible/desirable explanation for how the feature works in game lore.
* Instant transfer will lessen the need to have decent frame shift drives in ships other than one, “main” explorer type vessel.
* Instant ship transfer will remove any potential game play from deciding when/if transfer should be initiated.
* Instant ship transfer undermines the scale of the galaxy.

*sighs*

Okay. Honestly I didn't really need to think about which option to choose because it was fairly obvious. I suppose I'll have to tackle this now...

Have people seriously forgotten how the original handled FTL?

Is Witchspace not a thing now?

Are those Capital Ships just magically assembling themselves out of nothing when they 'warp in' because there is no such thing already that allows for instantaneous or near instantaneous travel?

Honestly it's like people have forgotten that Wormholes are a thing and how they work. As far as I'm concerned, the FSD is a recent invention that allows smaller ships the ability to jump since the Witchspace Drive or whatever it's called was too big to be feasible for smaller ships. I'm pretty sure that was the official reasoning so as to allow Sidewinders to work.

Also as far as I'm concerned, the FSD is pretty much a wormhole generator. Given however it's the smaller brother to the Witchspace Drive (which is still in use by larger Capital Ships) there are inherent technical limitations. The trade off or "weakness" everybody demands be in place for 'balance'. It is smaller therefore less powerful and can't just make a ship instantly jump from point A to point B like the older Witchspace Drive allowed.

I remember starting a topic that went largely unnoticed after the August 12th 3302 edition of Galnet in which I questioned the article for possible hints into newer navigational means for E: D.

I was correct on two counts. The revamp to Jump Plotting and Ship Transfer.

So.

That gives us two in-lore options for ship transfer. Ether 3D printing, or there is an unseen SuperHauler type ship capable of hauling all our smaller ships around delivering them to us as needed. Larger ships have a secondary Witchspace drive we don't have access to to facilitate that kind of moment. Possibly again due to inherent technical limitations and necessary safety regulations that require specialized certified personnel who are far and few inbetween. Of which we are not.

Hell people are already clamoring for the release of the Panther Clipper who's wiki page states that the version we are getting is a smaller version of the one that already exists in Elite Lore which is capable of being able to "buy entire planets out of cargo". If they're capable of that. I don't think they'd have much trouble fitting in a dozen various Sidewinders, Eagles, and Vipers while larger ships Python and up would have the secondary Witchspace Drive installed.

So that knocks the argument that there is no lore friendly way to implement it without breaking the immersion out.

Ether get a printer or get an unseen Panther Clipper the size of a capital ship to haul your ship around/secondary trained professional to activate the Witchspace Drive on your ship to push it to the limit and get it there for you.

Hell, there's a Passanger Mission right there. Transfer a Witchspace Drive technician from a station to another station.

Now here's another argument that doesn't make any sense. Frontier encourages us to have multiple ships. Many of which are specialized in different things. This argument to me is saying that those who use it, don't want specialized ships.

Now I'm sure someone here is going to say that I'm taking it out of context but let's look at this.

The complaint is that people will just have one dedicated taxi ship with which to drag the rest of their ships around.

Okay. What's wrong with that?

They'll just drag their combat ships around and fly nothing but a dedicated explore vessel.

I'm not seeing the problem here.

The key strength of multi-role ships is that they allow you to hybridize your ship to handle unexpected situations. This is also their key weakness in that being prepared for anything, they are incapable of doing anything to the degree of a specialized ship. This flexability is best used to specialize a multi-role for what you want to do or just buy a specialized ship.

So if I had no idea what I wanted to do or wanted to change up what I do on a regular basis. I want a multi-role ship. It affords me the flexibility to change it's role without the pain of having to buy, trick out, and get used to flying two different specialized ships with different flight mechanics. So multi-roles are not going anywhere.

Now does that mean specialize ships are bad? No. If anything that's where their strength lies. They have a clear strength and weakness.

Therefore giving rise to two kinds of pilots and both are effective. You have the pilot who flies one ship, and has clear mastery of that ship able to use it however he pleases effectively. Then you have the specialized pilot who know how to fly multiple ships and knows which ship is best for which job.

How does this play into debunking the argument?

Because it doesn't matter which you are. The process of swapping out parts and/or ships is very time consuming and tedious one. And with swapping ships there's the added risk of selling your ship by mistake. I'm willing to bet when 2.2 drops, there's going to be a lot of outrage about people accidentally selling their ships in their haste to swap to the one they wanted to drag around and when they correct their mistake, they're going to be a little gunshy about switching ships. There will always be a reason to have an upgraded FSD on whatever ship you use.

For combat ships, I have always cringed at the low jump range. To make combat ships effective, they need an upgraded FSD to get around so that the mercenary can have a travel range to patrol around looking for trouble to get into. Whenever it gets brought up that combat ships like the oh so cringe worthy low FSD on the Corvette need to have their base jump range increased, people start suddenly screaming about ship balance in that it would ruin the specialization for explorers. Well now that it's possible to more or less increase the jump range through an exploration ship, people are using this argument in that now everybody will have an explorer ship to drag their Corvette around.

I'm not happy but it's a workable solution until FDev correct the misconception that the Corvette is a 'Long Range Patrol Escort' because it's nothing of the sort since it can't keep up with the other ships that would make up it's battlegroup. It would also help Corvette players whos ships are stuck in small dead zones they can't jump out of. I've read at least one topic on here about someone who got stuck because they bought a Corvette in a system that was 13 LY from the nearest next system and they were trapped because the system in question didn't have FSD upgrades to push it's pitiful 7 LY to let them escape into the wider galaxy.

This encourages people to take their fleets and move them around. The tedium and risk of switching ships will keep players upgrading the FSD on all their ships so they will have a small patrol area and when they feel the need to, move everything to another part of the galaxy where things are more active. It encourages people to try specialized ships or to specialize their multi-roles.

The argument that it will cause people to only have one specialized travel ship and whatever they're dragging around to me is speaking in favor of DIScouraging people of having multiple ships. Of having a specialized Taxi and whatever they want to drag around.

I'm not going to pretend I have any idea what the hell people mean by "removing potental gameplay" in that argument. For now I'll dismiss it but if someone wants to tell me what that argument is about, I'll turn around and address it.

Oh lord have mercy, undermine the scale of the galaxy?

By the point you start making enough money to get multiple ships the wonder of warping between systems is going to get old real quick. We only have a small fraction of the galaxy civilized and ship transfer would only be between stations.

You gotta fly out somewhere first before you can drag your ships there. You'll get a good sense of the scale the first time you fly somewhere to drag your ships out there. If we ever start colonizing more of the galaxy it's gonna get real big real quick so this could be the push to Frontier to think about pushing the boundaries of civilized space.

 

[askavir]

I'm disappointed it's being put to a vote on the forums, as I still posit that the majority don't visit them.

THe devs already said on this very thread that they will contact the active players directly.

 

[Alex Brentnall]

I'm disappointed it's being put to a vote on the forums, as I still posit that the majority don't visit them.
In addition, I can see a lot of people voting to add the delay, but I truly believe that after a few months play, people who are for the delay now will simply be irritated by it after prolonged exposure. Will there be an option to remove the delay if the community vote for it but eventually express frustration with it?

In closing, I honestly think developers should go with their first instinct with a non-implemented feature and only allow voting on it once it's in the game. Players voting without any experience of a live implementation are voting in the dark.

Check the Dev posts and you'll see they plan to widen the voting pool as much as possible to player playing the game. We don't know if that means e-mails, launcher, in game message, other stuff or all the above.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

No in-bubble transfer takes 100 minutes in a reasonably equipped, and engineered, ship, sorry.

Ah, but now it'll travel that distance while you're off doing stuff.

The way this would bother people, if for instance they want to go Bounty Hunting some way off, so they take their exploration ship to travel there and have their Bounty Hunting ship there in an instant. Which means you can fit the Bounty Hunting ship with a coffeemachine for and FSD and it'd be fine. The delay makes it possible for you to skip that boring journey with the BH ship, but requires you to either plan ahead (arrive the day before, give the order, next day log in, and off you go (still negates the FSD drive, but has a different drawback) ) or to go there in your Bounty Hunting ship still and balance the FSD.

There are decisions to be made. Your actions have consequences in the future. Like some games have. Not everyone like that sort of gameplay, so there's the divide.

I went quite of on a tangent there ... sorry about that

 

[Tono Kopec]

Delay, all the way. Amusing tone to some of the posts in the thread. An exit poll broken down to PVP/PVE, PC/xbox, age etc would be interesting.

 

[WR3ND]

Cool. You can retain this by limiting yourself with personal timers. Not everyone needs that.

For a fair and balanced game that makes sense within its own constructed universe, just pretending the game is the way I want it to be doesn't make it the game I want to play and find rewarding to do so.

This was covered by what I already stated, so there is no need for a circular debate. You apparently don't agree, which is fine, but there's no need to continue the discussion, if that's the case.

It's about making the game the best that in can be in a way that is fair to its players. Artificially handicapping myself and pretending that certain potential game features don't exist doesn't go very far in achieving that goal, in my opinion. That is, it's a non-option.

I'm certainly not the only one with these kind of preferences, so playing it off as though it's me against others is a false dichotomy as well.

 

[NeoTron]

Issue is it is not a QoL, it is huge gameplay element which changes a lot of things - even FD admits that. It is not a simple 'pick and go' situation. That's why delay. Sorry bro, you can't win this one.

It removes one small aspect of the game - ship transfers. This is not a majority of most peoples gametime, and in fact aren't conductive to multiplayer experiences (since ship transfer to me is as fast jumping as humanly possible).

When I'm doing stuff - mission running, trading, CG's, combat etc I'm naturally in the appropriate ship. That's where interactions occur. Unless I'm going to known hotspots, I never really see anyone in-game.

If anything, instant transfers will greatly improve multiplayer in this game. If Dude is at a trading CG in a T9, and get pulled over by MurderDude in an FDL, before my choices were to keep on trucking, go to solo/private, or travel who knows how far to get my combat ship.

With instant transfers, I can pull my combat ship here and have some fun with MurderDude now. With delayed transfers, in 20-30 minutes when my ship arrives (or worse), MurderDude has logged out and I'm stuck without that PvP aspect.

Another area: Ganker travels to Jaques in a Corvette / FDL (has happened, will happen again). With instant transfers, for a high cost, people can easily counteract this ganker. With timed transfers it'd take days upon days to get the ship there (30-50 hrs at least with some rough math), and the ganker probably already moved on.

I see absolutely no scenario where instant transfers makes gameplay worse.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

just to share an experience because insta is better than delayed.

I am looking for articulation motor in my corvette in Dyn, near broo system, to improve my huge pulse.

After wandering around a while I found the mission: 4 articulation motor but the ship is too big.

Okay, purchased an haluer, outfitted, and completed.

So: again against insta trasfer?

Personally I would be fine with FD letting us take missions even if we can't do them (with a warning of course)..... of course if you run out of time you fail............

 

[kofeyh]

Delay faction here, too but I'm not quite that optimistic. Whether FSD range actually will affecting delays remains to be seen, I hope it will.

It doesn't. Flat time elapsed regardless of ship. 100 minutes to cover 400 LY is the example given. Yes, that's nearly two hours to transfer 400LY.

Realistically, anything over 400-500LY and people will just queue it before they sign out. 2+ hours isn't responsive to any current event.

People will move ships occasionally when moving home, or setting up for a CG the next session. It's no longer something that can be used in a timely fashion.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

People with little time to play - it is pretty weak argument and I play for few hours a week. Let me explain why.

I just recently started to play ED again - for few hours at each weekend day. And I tried some thought experiment to see how and why I would need ship transfer.

And fact is...I don't. And you most likely won't. You won't give up your cargo mission, or data transfer for expansion or anything else really just for side kick fun. You might see good opportunity, but you will plan for it, and most likely will try it next time you will visit game. Let's not give us 'ohhh we will jump into our fighters'....line. FD thought it was nice marketing pitch. It really doesn't work that way. People tend to lock themselves in loops in ED for a reason - because loss of the ship is high, and no one wants missions to fail. It is all about setting goals.

I can totally see this to happen - I see system where something good going down, I call my ship, while waiting I finish all my missions, come back and jump into action. It just won't happen that spontaneously. And not because of ship transfer delay, just reasons and justification for instant isn't really there. You won't drop stuff you do for some side action just like that. No one will.

 

[Pyelot]

I voted a time time lag but did not agree with either.

Ship transfer Should NOT be 5mins or 100mins.


It should be minimum of 24 hrs. and times caled for distance. You place the the order and 'real' day, you get it ! voila !

Anyone could grab a top combat ship and grieve you in 5 mins time when doing a livestream, rediculous !

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

How do you feel about community members criticizing my parenting because I don't wish my free time playing a video game to be wasted? Is that contributing constructively? Does it not count as trolling or baiting?

Yes it does, report it.

Thread moves fast, can't catch 'em all, help out the mods if you feel someone broke the rules.

 

[Monk]

That's very judgemental and inappropriate of you.

All are subject to judgement. I AM THE INTERNETZ

Why should a game cater to my schedule? If I'm short on time and just need a game fix, I play any number of my games that cater to quick in and out play. A couple turns on Civ, updating my entertainment district in City Skylines, completing a mission in TIE Fighter or do a round of completely destroying my wife in Words with Friends.

I play Elite when I have or make the time to enjoy it.

OH and If you do have a problem with my posts and think I'm breaking a rule, please feel free to report me. I'm more than willing to be taken to task for my behavior.

EDIT: and hardly criticizing your parenting...perhaps that is revealing about how you feel about how you spend your free time. Merely suggesting that there are better ways to spend your time if you feel a certain game is wasting it.

 

[Commdor]

I really do not understand people who persist in repeating that insert delay in transferring ships, it is made "only" in favor of immersion.

Immersion is critical ... it makes credible what you are experiencing, and offer new vectors of gameplay(like mr. Braben say about science).

What would a book, a movie or even a verbal narrative without immersion from who has the experience?
But for someone it seems now a dirty word! Bah ... I had my way I would put the concept of timing in every aspect of the game: repairs, loading and unloading goods, paint jobs etc ...
But for someone it would be "just for the immersion."

I believe that computer games can aspire quietly to the title of "eighth art", but to do so they need a radical and authorial design.

Impatient joysticks have to get over it or play a more infantile game...

Old Nerd

I agree, immersion is critical. The thing is, "immersion" means something different to everyone. Some people feel immersed at shallower depths of detail than others. You can't force everyone to accept your particular definition over their own.

 

[WR3ND]

Delay, all the way. Amusing tone to some of the posts in the thread. An exit poll broken down to PVP/PVE, PC/xbox, age etc would be interesting.

In the one similar poll I saw, Xbox players tend to prefer having a delay more than PC players. It was too low of a sample to form a solid comparison from, but it actually does make some sense to me, even though I do play on PC and prefer having a delay.

Perhaps Xbox players are looking for something more from Elite than just another "gamey" experience.

 

[NeoTron]

Ah, but now it'll travel that distance while you're off doing stuff.

The way this would bother people, if for instance they want to go Bounty Hunting some way off, so they take their exploration ship to travel there and have their Bounty Hunting ship there in an instant. Which means you can fit the Bounty Hunting ship with a coffeemachine for and FSD and it'd be fine. The delay makes it possible for you to skip that boring journey with the BH ship, but requires you to either plan ahead (arrive the day before, give the order, next day log in, and off you go (still negates the FSD drive, but has a different drawback) ) or to go there in your Bounty Hunting ship still and balance the FSD.

You can still fit your combat ship with a coffee machine FDL once you've docked in the system as long as they have outfitting. With the wonder of module storage, you can pick it right back up when you're done regardless of whether or not the station actually sells the FSD, and with any and all engineering mods remaining. It doesn't really change that aspect at all. It doesn't really even make it harder except that it moves the requirement from having a shipyard to having outfitting.

It just makes it so you can have fun (combat) faster than you could otherwise.