***POLL NOW CLOSED*** IMPORTANT, OFFICIAL SHIP TRANSFER POLL

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In my mind you're right, but for the wrong reason.

The poll is hidden which means you don't know for sure the outcome and if FD will actually follow through with the community vote. IMO the whole thing is a smokescreen to justify their internal decision with a "well you voted for it" retort if someone were to criticise. Jaded perhaps, suspicious for sure, but FD have a terrible track record to warrant it.

I don't really see like like that. I might be biased though. to me, it is hidden to stop it being some sort of "campaign" where progress is shown just like on a kickstarter. I imagine many threads could be born out of "we need more voices in instant/delay side!".
I think that it is more direct this way. There's no denying all polls are built on a hidden principle - until reveal date.
 
I don't really see like like that. I might be biased though. to me, it is hidden to stop it being some sort of "campaign" where progress is shown just like on a kickstarter. I imagine many threads could be born out of "we need more voices in instant/delay side!".
I think that it is more direct this way. There's no denying all polls are built on a hidden principle - until reveal date.
I had been thinking along those lines as well.
 
I don't really see like like that. I might be biased though. to me, it is hidden to stop it being some sort of "campaign" where progress is shown just like on a kickstarter. I imagine many threads could be born out of "we need more voices in instant/delay side!".
I think that it is more direct this way. There's no denying all polls are built on a hidden principle - until reveal date.

Agreed - better to keep it hidden until completed rather than risk hyped campaigning in response to the state of the poll while it's ongoing.
 
I don't really see like like that. I might be biased though. to me, it is hidden to stop it being some sort of "campaign" where progress is shown just like on a kickstarter. I imagine many threads could be born out of "we need more voices in instant/delay side!".
I think that it is more direct this way. There's no denying all polls are built on a hidden principle - until reveal date.


On this, we agree.
 
In my mind you're right, but for the wrong reason.

The poll is hidden which means you don't know for sure the outcome and if FD will actually follow through with the community vote. IMO the whole thing is a smokescreen to justify their internal decision with a "well you voted for it" retort if someone were to criticise. Jaded perhaps, suspicious for sure, but FD have a terrible track record to warrant it.

You make it sound so sneaky, when in fact Sandro said in his OP "We’ll run the poll until Monday next week. *Unless there is a significant, majority vote against ship transfer delivery times, along with a high turnout*, we will likely be moving towards implementing plausible delays into ship and module transfer, though such a change may affect when the features comes online."

Clearly Fdev has changed their thinking on this issue based on new arguments/evidence and are being 100% up front about going the delayed gratification route unless their is a significant majority vote against. Hard to read any obfuscation into that.
 
But they still said that ship transfers would be instant at the very beginning of this whole debacle, and they reinforced that by later affirming they would not implement delays. Until now.

FDev have frequently changed their minds about gameplay stuff in the past. Last time they caved to tbe Instant Gratification/Grinder crowd in relation to Engineers. So why shouldn't we more casual, slower paced gamers get a victory this time around?
 
The plans for the mod can be copied and reconstructed.
Ok.. so then why can't any station have every single module since they can just be copied and reconstructed?
What purpose would the Engineer serve when we can just copy/paste their designs and changes making them available to all on the black market. ED's own PirateMarket.
 
The poll is hidden which means you don't know for sure the outcome and if FD will actually follow through with the community vote. IMO the whole thing is a smokescreen to justify their internal decision with a "well you voted for it" retort if someone were to criticise. Jaded perhaps, suspicious for sure, but FD have a terrible track record to warrant it.

Frontier provided delay that is a polar opposite of instant. 100 minutes to cover 400 LY, regardless of ship capability, because it's being 'freighted', thus ship capability becomes redundant. The truck can drive at 50 mph, and that's all it can do. The truck arrives when it arrives, and the ship is rolled off the back.

This is simulated, however with a timer. Exactly the same way as other events are simulated. With a timer. Frontier mean well, but they are incredibly transparent at this point; is adding a timer much more work, than not?

As you say, they have a terrible track record in this respect.
 
Sure, but the trouble is that for the instant convenience you desire, we throw out massive game balance. The compromise with transfer times addresses these issues without any of those damaging side effects. It's hardly a hardcore request. We just don't want the balancing and immersive elements of the game gutted for an unnessessary convenience that will only benefit impulsive behaviour and remove the rewarding experience of having to think when playing.

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That's not true and you know it.

They might not know it. Instant transfers seems like the obvious selfish choice to me. "I want what I want when I want it. The rest be damned." If that's what people really want, so be it. Doesn't make for good compelling game design though.
 
FDev have frequently changed their minds about gameplay stuff in the past. Last time they caved to tbe Instant Gratification/Grinder crowd in relation to Engineers. So why shouldn't we more casual, slower paced gamers get a victory this time around?

Because the people in the middle, are shafted, every single time. Those who want to have a universe that isn't point and click, but doesn't require days to do anything. The very people that frontier should actually listen to, that are ironically those who are often the quietest.

Very easy to pick an extreme end of the spectrum; however I would expect the bulk of the commanders are somewhere in the middle. They lose. Every. Single. Time.
 
In my mind you're right, but for the wrong reason.

The poll is hidden which means you don't know for sure the outcome and if FD will actually follow through with the community vote. IMO the whole thing is a smokescreen to justify their internal decision with a "well you voted for it" retort if someone were to criticise. Jaded perhaps, suspicious for sure, but FD have a terrible track record to warrant it.

yes.

fdev, after its over please show the results of the poll.
 
They might not know it. Instant transfers seems like the obvious selfish choice to me. "I want what I want when I want it. The rest be damned." If that's what people really want, so be it. Doesn't make for good compelling game design though.

There is selfishness at both ends, frankly.

Anyone that isn't at either polar opposite end has a bad day though. Because the game increasingly doesn't cater for someone who wants a mostly engaging experience, but realises at the end of the day, it's still a game. This is illustrated by folks who are asking for delay, but for frontier to also consider the time taken.

They seem to be being drowned out. This is unfortunate, because I suspect the highest concentration of commander tendency? Is in the middle.
 
Because the people in the middle, are shafted, every single time. Those who want to have a universe that isn't point and click, but doesn't require days to do anything. The very people that frontier should actually listen to, that are ironically those who are often the quietest.

Very easy to pick an extreme end of the spectrum; however I would expect the bulk of the commanders are somewhere in the middle. They lose. Every. Single. Time.

How will anyone be losing out with timed ship transfers?
 
And completely ignores that the percentages your are quoting for those polls aren't even 1% of the entire playerbase. Tell me, what is the worth of 75% of 1% of 2 million players? How exactly is that indicative of what the playerbase wants at large? This isn't representative and neither will this Official Poll be unless you are willing to apply proper statistical analysis including controlling for game owners with more than one player account, but that certainly isn't being done here because BOTH of my accounts have voted. So I get MORE say in this poll simply because I've spent more money...

actually that is a lot like modern national and international democracy at the minute anyway.



Those players that show enough interest to be involved, voice their opinions and vote should be the ones who deserve to be considered. The "silent majority" should become involved and speak out. If not, don't come and complain about the results afterward (which they will anyway).

That is why in the real world, an organized/special interest group can have an out-sized influence in an election, same here.

In the game a small group of players can affect the game as a whole (UA bombing anyone?).

Is the poll statistically significant (large enough sample)? Someone with experience in that field needs to weigh in.
 
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Because the people in the middle, are shafted, every single time. Those who want to have a universe that isn't point and click, but doesn't require days to do anything. The very people that frontier should actually listen to, that are ironically those who are often the quietest.

Very easy to pick an extreme end of the spectrum; however I would expect the bulk of the commanders are somewhere in the middle. They lose. Every. Single. Time.

It was obviously difficult to find a middle solution this time though, between 0 and -insert random number-. Instant wanted instant, for good and bad reasons, that's a stance which can't be tweaked.
I would have been for a cohabitation of the 2 systems - 1 instant full price, another transfer mechanic on discount which would take time. But time they lack, so they follow the apparent majority without overthinking too much. Can't blame them...
 
Why have you not rebuilt or copied a modification on a vehicle engine before?
Do you have access to the mechanic's blueprints? If so, nothing is stopping you.
Engineers, however, do not give you blueprints, they give you the part and tell you to hit the road. Their modifications are a secret, known only to them.
If it were so easy to copy their designs, the markets would be flooded with their upgraded modules as the company's who manufacture them* would be pumping these upgraded designs out - which, of course, doesn't happen.

*
Dear FD, please introduce manufacturers for things like FSD's, weapons, shields and so on. KthxBye. :D
 
Voted no - ship transfer should take some time. If for no other reason than instant ship transfer totally breaks with any kind of realism. Sure, instant transfer would be more convenient, but also very 'gamey'.

With the delay, you can still go where you want to go in a long-jump ship like say the Asp, and get your big bad but horrendously low jump range combat ship to your location within a reasonable amount of time without breaking the immersion and sense of realism the game have (yes I know Supercruise and Hyperspace isn't possible within our current understanding of physics, but why introduce time-travel as well, which instant transfer in effect would be).

I am totally fine with choosing gameplay over physics. However, when you do it this much, you cannot suddenly turn around use “but realism” or “because it will make the galaxy feel bigger” as an excuse for        gameplay. Here are all the times the “Elite: Dangerous” designers chose gameplay over believable realism.

YOUR SHIP HAS A MAXIMUM SPEED. What is your speed even relative to in deep space? The nearest star? The nearest planet? The ether?

YOUR SHIP HAS A MAXIMUM ANGULAR SPEED THAT DEPENDS ON YOUR SPEED (except when a bad interdiction happens, then it spins at up to ten full rotations per second, without apparent ill effect), UNLESS YOU GET IT HIGHER IN FA-OFF, WHEN IT WILL STAY HIGH UNLESS YOU SLOW IT DOWN, BUT YOU CAN’T MAKE IT HIGHER AGAIN

YOUR BOTTOM THRUSTERS CAN SUPPORT YOU ON A 10G PLANET. BUT THEY CAN’T SLOW YOU DOWN MUCH ON A 0.1G PLANET.

IF YOU DISABLE THRUSTERS, YOUR SHIP SLOWS DOWN AND “STOPS” AT ABOUT 1G OF ACCELERATION, SOMETIMES FASTER THAN FULL REVERSE THRUSTERS COULD.

YOUR SHIP CAN HOVER IN VACUUM ABOVE THE SURFACE OF A 10G PLANET FOR SIXTY HOURS AND ONLY BURN TEN PERCENT OF ITS WEIGHT IN FUEL. WITHOUT EVEN SCORCHING THE PLANET’S SURFACE. This is physically impossible.

All ships rattle and glide through the non-existent atmosphere around planets at 2500 m/s. You decelerate at about 100G at the end of a glide. NO MENTION IS MADE OF WHAT PROVIDES THIS THRUST. THIS WOULD DEFINITELY KILL YOU. (Supercruise deceleration is different, “warp bubble” handwaving).

Your pilot will survive a crash at 600m/s (if your shields do). For comparison, that is MACH 1.5 (in Earth’s atmosphere), or 2160 km/hr. That sort of deceleration would SMEAR YOU INTO A THIN ORGANIC PASTE ON THE WINDSCREEN.

A MODDED SHIP CAN BOOST FROM -800m/s to 800m/s in two seconds. That is 80G of acceleration, and would definitely kill you. Pilots in combat can do this continuously. It somehow uses only about 200g of fuel/thrust mass to do this for a HUNDRED TONNE SHIP. The exhaust must be moving at basically c which would obliterate-a-hundred-mile-radius-nuke anything it was pointed at.

YOU CAN FLY SO CLOSE TO A SUN THAT IT FILLS NEARLY HALF YOUR SKY-SPHERE, AND YET A COUPLE OF TINY HEAT RADIATORS THAT ARE FACING THE SUN ARE ENOUGH TO KEEP YOUR SHIP’S COCKPIT AT ROOM TEMPERATURE INDEFINITELY.

If you target a signal source in supercruise, and it is less than six seconds away at your current speed, YOUR SHIP HAS TROUBLE SLOWING DOWN. Untarget it and you can stop almost instantly.

If your ship explodes, you have a 100% reliable escape pod that TRAVELS INSTANTLY RIGHT ACROSS THE GALAXY if that is where you last docked.

THE PILOTS FEDERATION INSURANCE PAYS 95+% OF THE COST OF ALMOST EVERY PLAYER’S SHIP, SOMETIMES SEVERAL TIMES IN ONE DAY. WHERE ARE THEY GETTING SUCH HUGE AMOUNTS OF MONEY? WHO MAKES ALL THE SHIPS? WHY ARE IDIOT PILOTS WHO REPEATEDLY BLOW UP THEIR SHIP GIVEN ANOTHER?

WE HAVE A DOCKING COMPUTER THAT IS GOOD ENOUGH TO FLY THROUGH THE MAIL SLOT AND ALIGN GENTLY WITH A LANDING PAD, BUT NO SHIP FUNCTION THAT POINTS THE SHIP IN THE DIRECTION OF A TARGET AND PRESSES THE HYPERSPACE BUTTON? A TEN-YEAR-OLD COULD WRITE THAT PROGRAM IN LOGO.

PLANET GRAVITY WELLS ARE DEEP, so supercruise takes ages, BUT YOU CAN HYPERSPACE from 2km above the surface. You have to get further away from a TINY LITTLE SPACE STATION to jump than the SURFACE OF A HUGE PLANET. THE SURFACE GRAVITY OF THE PLANET (0.1G OR 10G) DOESN’T MAKE ANY DIFFERENCE.

SUPERCRUISING JUST ABOVE THE PLANET’S SURFACE IS FINE AS LONG AS YOUR SHIP IS POINTING ABOVE THE HORIZON. YOU CAN CRASH INTO OR CLIP THROUGH HIGH MOUNTAINS WITHOUT A PROBLEM, but as soon as the nose dips below the horizon, your ship's computer dumpout of supercruise.

INVISIBLE BARRIERS AROUND PLANETS ARE FINE. Fly to Lave 2 and try to land on it. There is an invisible barrier that will stop you at 218km altitude. You just hang in space with your main engines on full burn.

THERE ARE INVISIBLE BARRIERS ON LANDING PADS. If you dock at an outpost just after another ship leaves then you cannot fly into the space the landing pad leaves while it is rotating.

YOU CAN HYPERSPACE TO A BROWN DWARF, BUT NOT A CLASS G STAR IF IT IS NOT THE CENTRE OF THE SYSTEM.

EVERYTHING LOOKS TOTALLY NORMAL AT 100x THE SPEED OF LIGHT. THERE IS NO BLUESHIFT, NO REDSHIFT, NO DISTORTION. What I’m saying is that SUPERCRUISE IS MADE UP and THERE’S NO “REALISM” ARGUMENT FOR IT TO BE SO STUPIDLY SLOW.

A SINGLE STATION IN THE MIDDLE OF NOWHERE OFFERS NEARLY A 50% INCREASE TO THE MOST IMPORTANT SHIP STAT IN THE GAME AND THE MAJOR POWERS AND COMMERCIAL VENTURES SEEM OBLIVIOUS TO THIS. THIS STATION MUST GET BILLIONS OF (NPC) VISITORS A DAY BECAUSE LOTS OF SHIPS HAVE THESE UPGRADES, AND YET IT ONLY GETS ONE OR TWO ARRIVALS PER MINUTE.

THERE ARE ABOUT FIVE HUNDRED TRILLION PIRATES AND MINERS IN EVERY RING SYSTEM IN INHABITED SPACE

THERE IS NO TORQUE DURING COLLISIONS. If the edge of my ship clips a tower or something, I just slow down! I should go spinning like a top. Same for hitting other ships.

THERE IS NO MOMENTUM CONSERVATION DURING COLLISIONS. When a big ship hits a small one, the momentum behaviour is really dumb.

INSTANT REPAIR. INSTANT REFUEL. INSTANT SHIP BUYING. INSTANT OUTFITTING. INSTANT ENGINEERING. INSTANT REBUY ON DEATH. INSTANT CARGO LOADING. EVERYTHING IS INSTANT.

Materials weigh nothing. But you can generate more than 100 tonnes worth of SRV refuels from them.

The “Regeneration Sequence” mod on a beam laser allows you to recharge another player’s shield so fast as to make them effectively invulnerable. You do this by firing your laser at their shield. However, there is no way to dump that energy into your OWN shield, even though much more effective means for transferring that energy should exist than a “laser beam”. Most of the weapon mods are like this.

Basically what I’m saying is, “realism” went out the window a long time ago, so don’t use that as an excuse for bad gameplay.
 
Glad that you are looking into this matter.

Though please do understand that the forum dwellers only represent a very small portion of total populace and thus, the poll result can end up being heavily skewed towards the taste of heavy, hardcore players.

I personally would prefer having some plausible delays for ship transfers, but still the delay should not be set too high(i.e 100 MINUTES) to become a hindrance in gameplay. IMO 100 minutes is just ridiculous that if you impose this much time delay in ship transfers, it will simply outright kill any merit in the ship transfer feature per se. I, for one, would just rather fly to the ship's location and fetch the ship in question myself if the time delay is above 20 minutes.

Seriously, there is simply no sense in flat out waiting 100+ minutes just for the ship to be delivered, when an ordinary Elite player - being a grown man/women, having to take care of their real life jobs/careers - gets only few hours to play per session on an any given weekday.

Thing is, there is a huge - sometimes insurmountable - gap between designing a game to be fun and to be scientifically correct. Sometimes you'll need to make compromises hence by the nature of video games. And the way I see it, this insta ship transfer debate is exactly when you'll have to make such compromises. What I urge you to do is: when you make that compromise, do so for the sake of fun and richer gameplay, not for boring realism.

In short, I suggest that the delay should be limited to ~20 minutes maximum, determined by not only the distance but also the ship's jump capabilities as well.
 
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