I think they mean that there will be people selling the gold for real world money, not that it will destabilize the in-game economy. It is a practice they obviously don't want associated with the game. roflmaool
Would you people stop trying to impose your selective interpretation of immersion/RP/simulation onto others?
- Thread starter BurnyBurns
- Start date
I think they mean that there will be people selling the gold for real world money, not that it will destabilize the in-game economy. It is a practice they obviously don't want associated with the game. roflmaool
That part I can grasp. I do get the concept that this would be opening up potential exploit loopholes, don't get me wrong, but my answer to that is perhaps that the game needs more in it and needs to be less exploitable *in the first place*, if instant or near instant travel is sufficient to break your game in a big way, then deeper questions need to be answered. EVE's travel is relatively instant and even there it doesn't "break the game" so there's got to be some kind of debate as to why in pretty much every game -except- this one, there's no issue with variable travel times, yet this is the only game where the reduction in travel times has caused such a major crisis.
*facepaw* And you were doing so well. No, the RNG modifiers are clearly not structured well as the mess with thermal shock is showing right now. That's not to speak of Engineers in general, who are also not structured well at all.
All of the balancing that FD installed between the ships with power balancing, jump range etc. stood to be totally rendered meaningless. No need to put a big jump drive on your ship anymore, no need to waste precious enegy and now spend those points on something else. The ability to travel everywhere in an Asp and then just pull out your swiss army knife of ships for every task stood to seriously cheapen the game. Players who wanted this in many cases did not understand fully what they were asking for IMO. Once put in as instant, many would soon see what had been destroyed.
Even now, things like traffic reports are rendered pointless and untrustworthy. The delay is not perfect, but at least it is a deterrant from the feature being abused.
The one thing I found very surprising was how this issue divided the community. I found many posters on here, people that usually disagree with my views to suddenly share the same view as myself. Just who took which view was a big eye opener!
And realistically all this does is impose inconvenience on people, it won't actually CHANGE much, aside from forcing people to switch over to netflix whilst they wait for their appropriate ship to come over before they get on with playing the game. A short delay is equivalent to no delay and we've already gone over why that is the case, all you're going to do is hack the people off in question because "IT MUST BE PLAYED MY WAY AND DAMNED TO EVERYONE ELSE!"
If you want to solve the issue of instant ship transit, you need to look deeper than simply saying "NUUUUU" because that's simply addressing the symptom. You'd be better off trying to understand why instant transit so fundamentally borks the game, and then work on solving that.
But that's effort, and it's easier for people on the forums to go "NUUUUU", and create a whole load of baloney reasons for "NUUUU", which is why we're here.
Last edited:
Artemis Zodiac
Banned
there is already gold farmers in ED...just not on a big scale like other non niche games...but they exist.....
I like to have knowledge on both sides of the force....dark or light lol
From my memory there was an ability to pack up your ship and transport it to another station yourself. You still had to do jumps between systems though, i don't remember it being "instant". There were also timers on the packing and unpacking of ships as well.
It's measured in seconds per system as opposed to minutes, and unless you're trying to get somewhere -really- remote, you can navigate your way around any system within EVE's space pretty rapidly, there's no timers on boxing up a ship provided it's not damaged, though you need a -hell- of a lot of cargo space if you're lugging anything bigger than a cruiser in your hold about. Easier to just jumpclone around to wherever.
Nobody just said "NUUUU" though, they gave reasonable arguments. We are HERE n this specific thread because the OP just wanted a random stab at "you people". Would it not be easy to mis-characterize this whole post as "WhAAA" if we are going to oversimplify things
FDEV obviously don't think the reasons are "baloney" either.
Last edited:
[up] + rep
Nope, sorry, that doesn't cut it.
The developers spent ample time trying to balance their game. If you don't think the RNG thing is balanced then that is a subjective view. I am not saying it is perfect by any means but the intent is most definitely there. You only need to look at how one bonus also causes a penalty elsewhere. Whether you think that is achieved or not does not deconstruct the original point I was making. Everything in this game has been designed as a trade off. It is a theme running through the design since the start.
To say that your argument is that insta travel should be a thing and that we should be looking at changing the rest of the game FD spent years building in order to satisfy your desire for insta travel is not logical.
What I said, is that FD looked at what they had already done and decided that by implementing this feature they stood to undo a lot of their previous work. FD obviously see the logic in this too. Afterall, they have gone back and made an attempt to install control measures. I will agree with you that many people will put on Netflix while they wait. But, it is either that, or everyone flies around in Asp-swiss army knives where all the other ships are resigned to the simplicity of a blade or tool on that knife and much of the mechanics in the game they strove to create are badly cheapened by one simple feature that the 'I want birgade' feels that they MUST HAVE NOW despite what damage it will do other mechanics and balancing in the game already.
I just don't see the trade off being worth it. What we will gain is nothing compared to what we will lose.
You need to understand where all of this is coming from. FD created a game where the idea is the players move around and make the BGS tick. They want a dynamic galaxy. The intention was that players would own one ship in the game at the time. This is how the game was designed. Then FD came around to the idea of letting players own more than one ship at a time. What this effectively did was encourage players to stay in one place because that is where their ships are. They introduced insta travel as I believe they wanted to rectify this 'problem' and thought by doing so it would encourage people to move around more. Then they realised that it was not so clear cut and that they stand to destroy a lot of the balancing they had already created in power management, jump ranges, traffic reports, trade jump exploits etc. etc.
They are trying to find a balance and work with what they already have.
Saying that they need to g back and redesign the game is a non starter.
Won't happen!
Last edited:
Damn, I need to get netflix since the game will force me to use it I really need a account there. How much does it cost these days?
Guess it's all about you then.
Not really. I personally don't care about gold farmers nor even MT. I don't even think FD has even used this as argument against credit transfer at this point. I think credit transfer will be part of player trading - if that ever comes.
I hope not, since that IMO would just be another waste of time and resources leaving us waiting further months for actual important content to be added to the game.
My only problem is whether or not I bother to play. The time this game takes is to much out of the busy-ness my life has become. I'll play something else until I have more time to play.
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
and that is everyones perogative! I am having a breather myself at the moment for one reason or another.
infact due to my limited time i am banging through "Wings Remastered" as that is perfect for when you only have 10 mins here or there.
i will be back with avengence as soon as i can however.
Some form of fast transport would have helped. I'm fine with the devs decision...just the game doesn't become as accessible with it. Not sure if it needed to be (only the devs know for sure0...but it would have made things better for myself and people like me. TBH...with the new time constraints, why bother at all? I can fly anything across the bubble in the time they are offering....they just need to go back to the way things are before...no one is getting helped with the timer...so it's just a mechanic that wastes a set amount of time rather than a variable amount if you fly somewhere yourself.
- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -
$9.99 US/month does not include first run movies.
Last edited:
Right, I'll start here, first off, most of the trade offs aren't exactly trade offs, in the case of the thermal shock situation, it's all upside and no downside. So no, there's not much subjectivity in that matter, and there's not much to debate on that point, saying that there needs to be a time delay as a trade off for being able to move your ships around is a serious straw man to say the least.
Read what I said, I said if insta travel breaks the game at such a fundamental level that insta travel causes everyone to throw their toys out of the pram and opens up cavernous holes for exploits, then there's more significant discussions to be had about the underpinnings of the game at a wider level. That means the argument over insta travel is merely a symptom of something more significant but rather than address THAT, people like you would rather bury your head in the sand and try and hold the tide back a la King Canute. Perhaps rather than scream "NUUUU" and take the easy route, you might want to deal with the underlying issues?
Except they're going to fly around in the Asp-swiss army knives anyways, and the other ships will be redesigned to the simplicity of the blade or tool on that knife because as I've said, a short delay is equivalent to no delay with the exception that now they've an enforced break where they go off to watch some netflix whilst they wait for their appropriate ship to turn up. All you've achieved is putting up an irritating barrier in front of people (indeed, the only meaningful time barrier will be between the human bubble and Jaques) where most of the time they'll summon their ship of choice, then go watch House of Cards or whatever, then come back and do whatever pew they intended. It's not improved the game at all, it's not "made the experience more realistic", it's just MADE THE GAME MORE ANNOYING for the sake of people who decided they couldn't handle the idea of their precious game undergoing changes to make it more accessible. If the time changes had been significant, this would be a very different discussion, but really? Most of the time they'll be between 10-30 mins. What's the *point* ? Aside from annoying people.
I was around since the Beta, you don't need to tell me where things came from. They initially sold us lots of promises on the BGS, what we got was a very simplistic regression to mean and the ability to flip bits around to push grains of sand about with minor factions. We asked for meaningful endgame content and got Powerplay, we asked for crafting and got Engineers. The problem is they address symptoms, not causes, and each time they go for the cheapest fix they can in terms of dev time and resources, passenger transit is the latest example, with the exception of VIP's (who are merely cargo missions with a need to go to specific locations en route) you might as well re-badge them cargo runs with a slightly different UI. If they started actually digging into the root of the problem and fixing a lot of what's not working at the core of ED, the game might actually realise a lot of the potential available to it, rather than relying on the player-base to constantly invent stuff in the hope that the Devs might actually pull their fingers out.
But that requires effort, whereas you're going "NUUUUUU"
Can you not see how it breaks and renders pointless so much of the already established game? I trust you have read my arguments against this?
Do you really think that is a trade off worth making?
Right, I'll start here, first off, most of the trade offs aren't exactly trade offs, in the case of the thermal shock situation, it's all upside and no downside. So no, there's not much subjectivity in that matter, and there's not much to debate on that point, saying that there needs to be a time delay as a trade off for being able to move your ships around is a serious straw man to say the least.
Read what I said, I said if insta travel breaks the game at such a fundamental level that insta travel causes everyone to throw their toys out of the pram and opens up cavernous holes for exploits, then there's more significant discussions to be had about the underpinnings of the game at a wider level. That means the argument over insta travel is merely a symptom of something more significant but rather than address THAT, people like you would rather bury your head in the sand and try and hold the tide back a la King Canute. Perhaps rather than scream "NUUUU" and take the easy route, you might want to deal with the underlying issues?
Except they're going to fly around in the Asp-swiss army knives anyways, and the other ships will be redesigned to the simplicity of the blade or tool on that knife because as I've said, a short delay is equivalent to no delay with the exception that now they've an enforced break where they go off to watch some netflix whilst they wait for their appropriate ship to turn up. All you've achieved is putting up an irritating barrier in front of people (indeed, the only meaningful time barrier will be between the human bubble and Jaques) where most of the time they'll summon their ship of choice, then go watch House of Cards or whatever, then come back and do whatever pew they intended. It's not improved the game at all, it's not "made the experience more realistic", it's just MADE THE GAME MORE ANNOYING for the sake of people who decided they couldn't handle the idea of their precious game undergoing changes to make it more accessible. If the time changes had been significant, this would be a very different discussion, but really? Most of the time they'll be between 10-30 mins. What's the *point* ? Aside from annoying people.
I was around since the Beta, you don't need to tell me where things came from. They initially sold us lots of promises on the BGS, what we got was a very simplistic regression to mean and the ability to flip bits around to push grains of sand about with minor factions. We asked for meaningful endgame content and got Powerplay, we asked for crafting and got Engineers. The problem is they address symptoms, not causes, and each time they go for the cheapest fix they can in terms of dev time and resources, passenger transit is the latest example, with the exception of VIP's (who are merely cargo missions with a need to go to specific locations en route) you might as well re-badge them cargo runs with a slightly different UI. If they started actually digging into the root of the problem and fixing a lot of what's not working at the core of ED, the game might actually realise a lot of the potential available to it, rather than relying on the player-base to constantly invent stuff in the hope that the Devs might actually pull their fingers out.
But that requires effort, whereas you're going "NUUUUUU"
I agree with you on a lot of these issues but although I do not think that a timed delay is a perfect cure, it will discourage players from abusing the feature. Players simply will not sit through delays constatntly. This means they will only ship transfer when they really need to. The time delay will negate the trade exploit that has been clearly pointed out by others. with less people using the transfer mechanic at every turn, traffic reports will be a little more accurate, but if I am honest, I think this feature will be broken permetly once ship transfer is introduced.
Like I said in a previous post, if it were left up to me I would nevr introduce the feature at all. But, I think the community has clearly pointed out that they do want it, just not in the way that FD had originally announced it. When people were calling for this feature last year, they never bothered to think through what effect it would have on the game other than their own personal gain. That is what I also see now in a lot of the against posts.
You are right that there are a lot of things in Elite that maybe should have been handled differently, but a lot of it is done very welll too. My biggest issue with the game right now is that so much emphisis is being placed on what I see as secondary content just like the bit we are discussing right now. Ship transfer is not going to suddenly revolutionize the game. It will still be exactly the same game we were playing in 2.1. I can see value in features like this when the important stuff is addressed first. You ran the risk of being pounced on for mentioning your 'end game content'
I agree with you, that is the elephant in the room and the most important problem with this game. But for those who do not understand what we are talking about you are likely to get a "ELITE HAS NO END GAME!" response.I know exacly what you are getting at and agree wholeheartedly. Sometimes people shoot things down without actually understanding exactly what it is they are shouting at
Last edited: