The Star Citizen Thread v5

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Stigbob

Stigbob
CMDR_Orlando said:
Oh yes, a company building studios, hiring people to make a game costs money! Who would have tough... How silly of them, not trustworthy at all. [squeeeee]
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They've gone from saying our TOS is ironclad to desperate pleading, the end times are upon us.

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Agony_Aunt said:
"That have already been applied to develop" ..... to develop what? You can't end the sentence like that. And no full stop!!!!! Are you sure that is legit?
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I thought that at first, but the e-mail exchange between Sandi and Beer4thebeergod was written in a very similar manner.
 

Esvandiary

Esvandiary
Sunleader said:
In ED we got the Promise of Planetary Landings. And we actually have Planetary Landings.
But we can only land on stuff without atmosphere. So while Planetary Landings are in fact implemented.
They have not yet actually delivered the promised feature :)

Its the same for SC here. Some parts are already persistent. But the feature *Persistent Universe* has not yet been delivered :)
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Well... the only place planetary landings was initially "promised" was during the Kickstarter, and was clearly specified as a "here are some extended features we'd like to work on post-release if we get the opportunity." It was never promised as a core feature.
The Planetary Landings feature as promised in Horizons has been delivered. They promised being able to land on planets without atmosphere, that's what was delivered. It's not everything that the Kickstarter video said they might do one day, but it never claimed to be.
Of course, you're welcome to complain that there's not a huge amount to do on the planet surfaces other than base assaults and driving around (which admittedly are fun) and I'd personally agree with that.

Toumal said:
I love the idea of SC. I do hope that this comes out someday, and that it's good. But you know what?

This company is not trustworthy.
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Agreed. This is the main thing that's making me really worried - not delays or things not working properly, but how they're dealing with it.

  • Deflection / pretending problems aren't there
  • Attempting to rewrite history to paper over their mistakes
  • Behaving poorly/disrespectfully to customers who don't Obey (sometimes in public and more widely behind the scenes)
  • Stifling "non-approved" discussion (compare the RSI forums to FD's when it comes to criticism of their respective games)
  • Shady business practices (how many companies? TOS altered to be more anti-consumer how many times?)
 
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Sunleader

Sunleader
Agony_Aunt said:
"That have already been applied to develop" ..... to develop what? You can't end the sentence like that. And no full stop!!!!! Are you sure that is legit?
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No Stamps no Symbols. Nothing that would Identify it as an Document actually send by SC staff.
I would as well consider the possibility of a fake here.



Esvandiary said:
Well... the only place planetary landings was initially "promised" was during the Kickstarter, and was clearly specified as a "here are some extended features we'd like to work on post-release if we get the opportunity." It was never promised as a core feature.
The Planetary Landings feature as promised in Horizons has been delivered. They promised being able to land on planets without atmosphere, that's what was delivered. It's not everything that the Kickstarter video said they might do one day, but it never claimed to be.
Of course, you're welcome to complain that there's not a huge amount to do on the planet surfaces other than base assaults and driving around (which admittedly are fun) and I'd personally agree with that.



Agreed. This is the main thing that's making me really worried - not delays or things not working properly, but how they're dealing with it.

  • Deflection / pretending problems aren't there
  • Attempting to rewrite history to paper over their mistakes
  • Behaving poorly/disrespectfully to customers who don't Obey (sometimes in public and more widely behind the scenes)
  • Stifling "non-approved" discussion (compare the RSI forums to FD's when it comes to criticism of their respective games)
  • Shady business practices (how many companies? TOS altered to be more anti-consumer how many times?)
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The Video People threw at me actually were very clear on that.
*You WILL be able to*
But not in the initial game cause we want to do it right.

That was the statement.



To begin with however this was not on old promises or anything.
It only served as an axplanatory example for making my point on SC clear.
 

Tuub t Tute

T
When requesting a refund for purchases goods and services, due to non-delivery, it is not the concern of the consumer if the vendor has sufficient cash reserves to uphold their legal obligation.

If I bought something from Ebay and had to open a dispute case for non-delivery, getting an email back from the vendor flavoured with "you will be taking the pay checks of our staff if you continue to request your money back", would lead me to believe the company was a sham and had no intention of delivering my goods in a timely fashion, if at all.

And it is a pre-order, with VAT paid on it. It isn't a pledge, or a donation, or a gift. It is a financial transaction based on the normal rules of commerce.
 

lysan

lysan
Sunleader said:
Hmm. Somewhat tricky.
But lets take ED as example.

In ED we got the Promise of Planetary Landings. And we actually have Planetary Landings.
But we can only land on stuff without atmosphere. So while Planetary Landings are in fact implemented.
They have not yet actually delivered the promised feature :)

Its the same for SC here. Some parts are already persistent. But the feature *Persistent Universe* has not yet been delivered :)
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That is not true, FDEV has delivered exactly what they promised, as they said, first there will be planetary landing on airless moons and planets, then in a later expansion planets with an atmosphere.
It was very clear communicated from day one. The fact that you and some other ED players don't know that, only shows that you guys don't listen.

I will admit that FD could be better to place features and release sequences in an accessible area of the forums.

A quick goggle came up with this, I know FD also has inform about this in a news letter at some point.
http://www.pcgamesn.com/elite-dange...week-last-chance-grab-lifetime-expansion-pack
 

Soliluna

Soliluna
Toumal said:
Back on topic

Apparently this is the letter that is sent to people who want a refund.

http://i.imgur.com/QcXEXAJ.jpg

Read the last paragraph.
This means that the money they received has already been spent.

I love the idea of SC. I do hope that this comes out someday, and that it's good. But you know what?

This company is not trustworthy.
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That is such a bad email. There is absolutely no customer focus in there at all, it doesn't even smell amateurish, it is just completely wrong on all levels. The entire email is about them and what they want as a company and what other backers want.

It reads poorly, almost like someone is holding back from writing a diatribe against them. The language used makes everything seem forced, like someone has taken the person typing it hostage and made them change the wording. It makes the customer feel criminal or immoral, like they are doing something wrong or bad and more importantly to the global community - it shows a lack of respect. A lack of respect to the player's intelligence, a lack of respect to their desires and a lack of respect to their wallet.

And RSI Support? Or RSI Customer Support? I think it's clear who they are supporting.


I can't believe that it is real, no self respecting Customer Service rep would hit send on that e-mail.
 

Zieman

Zieman
@ Kome & Stig:
Personally I found your cakes hilarious when you consider the context. :)

But this is supposed to be a family friendly forum. Plus bad taste. *shrug*
 

ianw

I
Who doesn't want to see a neat pile of coiled Richard the thirds cascading out of a sugary butt first thing in the morning?!

I have to say though it didn't exactly contribute to the enjoyment of my marmite on toast.

:D
 

Toumal

Toumal
Wow. Where to begin...

"We understand that for some backers, the extent of this honesty and learning about this process has caused some frustration"
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I can assure you, CIG's "honesty" is not the problem. The issue is that your ambitions run amok and the delivered product so far is underwhelming. And I say "delivered product" because CIG stated in previous communications that they have indeed already delivered a product.

"Pledged funds are not held in reserve or pocketed, but devoted to the technology, resources, and talent needed to make the game."
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Chris Roberts went on record that CIG has enough money to finish the game even if funding had stopped back then. Critics of the project claimed that CIG was burning money fast, that a large portion of the money was already spent, and this notion was dismissed as ridiculous. Now CIG goes on record, confirming that the money has indeed been spent. This is big.

"Once services ar epaid, it is not really possible to ask our employees to give back their pay checks."
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Another statement affirming that they indeed already spent the backer money, and according to their own words, most if not all of it. This is not me making a projection. This is CIG saying this themselves. No employee would have to "give back their pay check" if there was still money left unspent. But apparently there isn't.

"It is also not really appropriate to take such funds from other backers who pledged their money to see the game made to give refunds to other backers"
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Further confirmation. All money has been spent. To be able to do refunds they rely on new backer money. Again, not my words, this is CIG making this statement. That's fact evidence.

"Therefore, we ask that you please consider the potential harm done to the game in refunding pledges that have already been applied to develop."
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Aside from the sentence missing something at the end, this is further confirmation that the backer money, 120+ Million Dollars, has been spent, and that refunds require them to use new backer money.



This company needs to be stopped. Either that, or they need to start answering some questions ASAP: How much backer money has been spent so far, and how much backer money is still in the bank. They need to adress this right now.
 
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