The Star Citizen Thread v5

[milligna]

Ha, come to think of it I think I advocated closing all the studios but the UK one a few years ago on these threads, too. At least with Erin Roberts you'd probably see a game at the end of the day and not some weird soap opera. That Santa Monica office has been dead weight and a drain on the project since day one.

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

At least the only guy at CIG who championed VR, Jon Dadley, got out and is having fun: https://twitter.com/JonDadley/status/779223554046984192

Thanks Millingna, that was the person I was referring to when replying to Hi-Ban earlier.

Pretty much the only expert CIG had on the team who knew anything about VR, and he jumped ship.

But according to Hi-Ban, Jon Dadley is nobody important. Because on that video stabilization video, when a CIG dev (who we have no idea whatsoever just *what* his background or experience with VR is btw) said "Definitely going to be done" when referring to VR implementation, then that means it's DEFINITELY going to happen.

Even in the face of insurmountable evidence to the contrary.

 

[Dooguk]

OK, now I am getting suspicious. As one SC ardent supporter leaves this thread, another takes their place. Do they work in shifts?

 

[ianw]

Ha, come to think of it I think I advocated closing all the studios but the UK one a few years ago on these threads, too. At least with Erin Roberts you'd probably see a game at the end of the day and not some weird soap opera. That Santa Monica office has been dead weight and a drain on the project since day one.

That's one thing that seems to have remained consistent throughout this - Ernie seems to be the get it done guy - a safe pair of hands etc.

I wonder what the dynamic is like between Chris and him..

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

OK, now I am getting suspicious. As one SC ardent supporter leaves this thread, another takes their place. Do they work in shifts?

An "online reputation management" company, part of any self respecting development house that is all about "open development".

Well, according to CIG upper management I guess.

 

[Monk]

That's one thing that seems to have remained consistent throughout this - Ernie seems to be the get it done guy - a safe pair of hands etc.

I wonder what the dynamic is like between Chris and him..

Something like this...

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

Looks like the loyal Citizens aren't sharing the cautiously optimistic views of the Kotaku article that Monk and McGlashan seem to have of it...

https://forums.robertsspaceindustri...e-from-pc-gamer

Spoiler

 

[Osmanthus]

OK, now I am getting suspicious.

Only now?

That was a very interesting article, well researched and carefully worded. No one can really say it was a hit piece, but thankfully the sc reddit doesn't really seem to think it is on the whole. Maybe there's hope for this fanbase after all!

e: Then again, we have places like the RSI forums who all just declare clickbait. Never mind, it's exactly as depressing as before.

 

[Dooguk]

Looks like the loyal Citizens aren't sharing the cautiously optimistic views of the Kotaku article that Monk and McGlashan seem to have of it...

I wonder how worked up that guy gets over something that's actually important.

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

That's one thing that seems to have remained consistent throughout this - Ernie seems to be the get it done guy - a safe pair of hands etc.

I wonder what the dynamic is like between Chris and him..

It's not a coincidence. This has been a regular pattern of how work on games they are partnered on generally goes... Chris tends to over-promise, make a mess and spend a lot of money to do so... Erin then comes in to try and sort out the mess and get things working more efficiently. Usually with varying results from something workable and playable that isn't too bad (Wing Commander 2, 3), to something even *he* can't save (Freelancer).

This isn't new.

 

[Hi-Ban]

Thanks Millingna, that was the person I was referring to when replying to Hi-Ban earlier.

Pretty much the only expert CIG had on the team who knew anything about VR, and he jumped ship.

But according to Hi-Ban, Jon Dadley is nobody important. Because on that video stabilization video, when a CIG dev (who we have no idea whatsoever just *what* his background or experience with VR is btw) said "Definitely going to be done" when referring to VR implementation, then that means it's DEFINITELY going to happen.

Even in the face of insurmountable evidence to the contrary.

I never said he wasn't important. I just stated that the guy in the video said it's definitely going to be done. And of course we can speculate, guess, give opinions, etc. But none of us works at CIG, so until it's done (or not) all we can do is just that. speculate. We can't say "what i say is a fact" with no real proof. Well we can, but we probably wont be taken too seriously...

 

[Prince Thrakkath]

Reading the Kotaku article just makes me very angry, so much waste and mismanagement. I supported this in 2012 to be Wing Commander with proper 'HOTAS' support and online elements like co-op, people who like to argue that backers support more feature creep in the 'poll' forget the fact that CR said the extra money would ensure the game stayed within schedule and actually get done 'faster' with the extra money. This has drained an enormous amount of money and goodwill towards other crowdfunded space-sims like Infinity Battlescape, if I had a $ for every SC backer I've seen say I wont spend money on any other crowdfunded game because of delays with SC and broken promises I would be a very rich man indeed. I just hope the 'real' product gets released and faces scrutiny soon so CIG have to earn money from the actual product they are delivering and not promises that take money away from other developers who actually backup their products with delivery.

 

[Roybe]

Have you read this Kotaku article?
http://www.kotaku.co.uk/2016/09/23/inside-the-troubled-development-of-star-citizen

Great read! I cannot wait for a Managerial grad student to do a case study of this company.

I can give Roberts some kudos....but there is lots he has to shoulder the blame for...the largest is not hiring a competent CEO and CFO. One of the hardest things a leader has to admit is that there is someone that can do his job better than he can...and hire that person to do it. Roberts could still have input as a Board Director...but the logistics, operations, etc. could have saved so much time and money if he had organized his company better.

 

[Monk]

It's not a coincidence. This has been a regular pattern of how work on games they are partnered on generally goes... Chris tends to over-promise, make a mess and spend a lot of money to do so... Erin then comes in to try and sort out the mess and get things working more efficiently. Usually with varying results from something workable and playable that isn't too bad (Wing Commander 2, 3), to something even *he* can't save (Freelancer).

This isn't new.

If anything, Erin is getting a boat load of experience with complex re-engineering of legacy code for his team. I'd keep an eye on him when he eventually moves on to make something else.

 

[Osmanthus]

I never said he wasn't important. I just stated that the guy in the video said it's definitely going to be done. And of course we can speculate, guess, give opinions, etc. But none of us works at CIG, so until it's done (or not) all we can do is just that. speculate. We can't say "what i say is a fact" with no real proof. Well we can, but we probably wont be taken too seriously...

Well, it is a fact that Chris Roberts has been involved with poorly managed projects in the past, in a managing position.

It is also a fact that some of the criticisms on CIG from the public are similar to criticisms about Daikatana and its management before *it* was released, but that's neither here nor there.

Likewise, and this is really the point, it appears to be a fact that VR is very difficult indeed to do from anything but the beginning.

 

[hairychris]

I never said he wan't important. I just stated that the guy in the video said it's definitely going to be done. And of course we can speculate, guess, give opinions, etc. But none of us works at CIG, so until it's done (or not) all we can do is just that. speculate. We can't say "what i say is a fact" with no real proof. Well we can, but we probably wont be taken too seriously...

The point is this:

Plan for VR from the beginning: ground is prepared, put the actual VR support in place when ready. Minimal rewriting required.

Don't plan for VR from beginning: refactor menus/HUD, refactor character & camera interaction, refactor cockpit models, remove "loss of control" moments, plus more before you can even look at implementing the VR technology itself.

So, CIG could add VR at some point, but to do so they will need to do a huge amount of rewrites (increasing as more content is added).

EDIT: So, if VR is actually planned, it is bad management not to design the game with it in mind from the beginning as you are adding a massive amount of extra work further down the line.

 

[Osmanthus]

Reading the Kotaku article just makes me very angry, so much waste and mismanagement. I supported this in 2012 to be Wing Commander with proper 'HOTAS' support and online elements like co-op, people who like to argue that backers support more feature creep in the 'poll' forget the fact that CR said the extra money would ensure the game stayed within schedule and actually get done 'faster' with the extra money. This has drained an enormous amount of money and goodwill towards other crowdfunded space-sims, if I had a $ for every SC backer I've seen say I wont spend money on any other crowdfunded game because of delays with SC and broken promises I would be a very rich man indeed. I just hope the 'real' product gets released and faces scrutiny soon so CIG have to earn money from the actual product they are delivering and not promises that take money away from other developers who actually backup their products with delivery.

Chris Roberts: Yeah my employees, who have more experience than I do, are right, but I'm more right and they should do what I say or I'll get very very annoyed.
Chris Roberts: Star Citizen looks better than Order 1886.
Chris Roberts: Game development should be more like movies.

 

[Dooguk]

What do you mean by that?! This IS important to him! This is the be all and end all of all GAMING FOREVER!

Don't you SEE that?! These kinds of foul, depraved writings from that Kotaku-baku place have NO RIGHT to be written and just show that jealousy, pure and simple, is driving this latest attempt to derail the VISION! The PURITY! The JUSTNESS of Star Citizen!

*Continues to foam at the mouth as he smashes his bloodied and bruised face against the keyboard with increasing intensity and zeal....

Apologies. I await to embrace the Rapture.

 

[McGlashan]

Looks like the loyal Citizens aren't sharing the cautiously optimistic views of the Kotaku article that Monk and McGlashan seem to have of it...

It's because it has "troubled" rather than "amazing" in the title. It's not as if they'll actually read it.

 

[hiciacit]

Looks like the loyal Citizens aren't sharing the cautiously optimistic views of the Kotaku article that Monk and McGlashan seem to have of it...

Words fail me. That's one seriously deluded post. Almost feel sorry for him. Almost.