Horizons Interdictions, again.

[Faded Glory]

It only tends to happen if you submit too late (down to 2 or 3 bars at most) or if you are way off the escape vector. Often the escape vector flips behind me (don't know if this is intention or a bug) and it's hard to see where it is from the circular indicator. In this situation, the interdiction fails very quickly.

In most situations you're right, it's not worth fighting. The only real exception for me is if I'm approaching a rare signal source and don't want to "lose it" by submitting and dropping into normal space.

Ok, that makes sense, and I guess trying to follow the vector at that point is worthwhile.

The escape vector veering very wildly, including behind you is I believe a bug, and it does seem to be fixed in beta 2.2. I still got a few pretty wild swings, but nothing as bad as it used to be in live (when I was still doing interdictions). None of my testing in beta had the insta-fail, but as I said, even when I was centered on the ship, my blue progress bar didn't shift at all. Frustrating.

I think in principal, if the mini-game was more 'reliable' (that's the best word I can come up with), then fighting interdictions would be worth it. All the multiple interdictions that players complain about from mission generated opponents would be gone, but I just think that for a lot of players, the mini-game isn't fun, and it's surely very punishing if you lose it. Not a great combination.

 

[rrobes]

I'm doing PP runs right now to an outpost 11Kls from entry in my "PaperPython" which isn't exactly fast. Low sec system. Imaginably worst combination. Right now I had a pretty scary encounter with an NPC Anaconda that I couldn't shake of. Of course I could get into SC after a few boost but this ship was way too soon interdicting me again and it seems after each interdiction it came a little closer while mass lock effects got stronger and stronger, so I slowly received increasing hull damage. Just when I begun thinking about giving up and high waking to a neighbor system it dawned on me that if I can free myself from the mass effects I should be generally faster and so I stopped the already started FSD and boost, boost, boost until it was out of sight. I still boosted some more until I saw a message regarding security response, which was the sign to finally low waking out and made it to the outpost without any further stalking. Phew

Somehow I mistakenly thought these kind of "rabbit-runs" could become boring after a while but man was I wrong...

There are some instances in the game that seem to be "interesting". I would not put it past FD to program some of these bumps intentionally. I have run into NPC's whose shields regenerate completely in an abbreviated time and have a whole arsenal of weapons that seem to be very OP. I've referred to them as "boss ships".

In encounters such as yours in my unarmed Anaconda, and reasonably close to the port, I have boosted til the NPC was out of range, then low wake, then submit to interdiction, then boost, low wake, etc., til I can make the port and let security deal with it. Some of these instances have occurred when my fuel was low and really didn't allow a hyper jump (the game knows!!!). An Anaconda buy-back is hurtful (hasn't happened yet).

 

[GJ51]

I'm doing PP runs right now to an outpost 11Kls from entry in my "PaperPython" which isn't exactly fast. Low sec system. Imaginably worst combination. Right now I had a pretty scary encounter with an NPC Anaconda that I couldn't shake of. Of course I could get into SC after a few boost but this ship was way too soon interdicting me again and it seems after each interdiction it came a little closer while mass lock effects got stronger and stronger, so I slowly received increasing hull damage. Just when I begun thinking about giving up and high waking to a neighbor system it dawned on me that if I can free myself from the mass effects I should be generally faster and so I stopped the already started FSD and boost, boost, boost until it was out of sight. I still boosted some more until I saw a message regarding security response, which was the sign to finally low waking out and made it to the outpost without any further stalking. Phew

Somehow I mistakenly thought these kind of "rabbit-runs" could become boring after a while but man was I wrong...

If you are just going to return to SC rather than jumping out of the system, doin't do it as soon as you can, ie as soon as the FSD cool down is done. If you are out distancing the NPC, just keep going in normal space until the pursuer is out of range and no longer visible on your scope.

Be patient, just take a small break and cruise in normal space for a few minutes before going back to SC. Most times, you will lose the NPC if you do this.

 

[Faded Glory]

Yes, my conclusion as well - in this case. But what if the attacker is faster or at least with same top speed than me? I guess the only way to escape would be to high wake out then. To myself: I really should do some engineering soon - if only I wouldn't just have started with PP which is so much more interesting and a complex beast than it appeared to me at a first glance...

I can only speak from my own experience, but when I submit, I am normally left waiting for up to 5 seconds before the interdictor appears in the instance. I actually cut throttle waiting. But if I were trying to escape, assuming no crazy spin, I would have a significant head start with 4 pips to ENG boosting away. And the interdictor always appears directly behind me, so shouldn't be an issue boosting into them.

As I said, all of this assumes a successful submission and no spin.

 

[Blackcompany]

When is Frontier just going to admit that this hopelessly stupid mechanic is functionally broken? If they want the galaxy to be dangerous, then give us more reason to fly outside of Supercruise to begin with:

-Require that we drop from SC at a minimum of 25km from a Station, to give them fair warning of ships approaching. This makes sense from an immersion, regulatory and security standpoint.

-Require that we deliver goods to local cargo shuttles who will then issue our payment and relay the cargo to the station. This would require dropping from SC around the 25km mark, and maneuvering to within the safe area around a station - leaving us vulnerable to attack for several minutes.

-Require delivery of goods to bases within Asteroid belts and planetary rings. No SC all the way to the dock. Lots of manual flying, in environments pirates can hide in.

-Require ship registration at the Nav Beacon in populated, Non-Anarchy (and ONLY in populated non-Anarchy) systems. In other words...until you have "checked in" at the Nav beacon and registered your presence in populated systems, you CANNOT enter into SC and travel around the system, without constant threat of system security taking you out for trying to hide. Running Silent would help you avoid scans by system security at the Nav Beacon, and if you can hide for a given number of seconds, then you may enter into SC from there and try and stealth your way through or out of a system.

-Give us lots of missions that require us to pick up Cargo in places that are not stations, such as: Asteroid/Ring bases; tourist destinations; remote system bases. Places we have to approach in normal flight mode.

-If technically possible, stop making SC and normal flight two separate world spaces/worlds (technically speaking, game engine wise) within your game. Seamless space would eliminate the NEED for SC and thus for Interdiction to begin with. Which is the way the game should have been built to begin with, frankly.

There are ways to make Elite dangerous without relying on this frustration inducing and frankly mechanically broken game play interruption. Beginning with one question: should this activity BE dangerous to begin with? Because chances are really good, that 95% or more of the garbage we haul around on missions or during trade runs, wouldnt interest a pirate to begin with. You dont see pirates in the real world hijacking ships full or lumber or steel; they want wealthy captives for ransom...or rare or exotic goods and/or oil. Elite needs to be at least as believable, and go from there in terms of working out how to make the world dangerous...without also making it insanely tedious and annoying (which it is now).

 

[Faded Glory]

5 seconds? Never! Not for me at least. Bad internet connection perhaps? Wouldn't have time for a full 180° without the risk of showing the attacker my broadside. Since I've started to immediately submit I've yet to see the wild spinning again. Maybe we are on to something and the outcome of interdictions might indeed be a result of different connection qualities (ping times, failure rates etc. bandwidth pretty much irrelevant)?

Where we at it, since when has the wild spin for the attacker been removed from the game? I've seen attackers who start firing at about 2 seconds after submitting. This never would have been possible with how I knew this mechanics from the past. Of course I'm not sitting in the NPC's cockpit but from my experience and how I'm used to these timings I'm pretty sure something must have been changed recently. If internet connection quality would actually be a thing with interdictions then my recent provider change could be a first hint... though I have to admit that's not much more than a wild conspiracy theory - for now.

Btw, you talk about 4 pips to ENG. You do realize, that I'm talking with my current ship in mind? No shields no weapons, thus no reason to ever touch the 4 pips to ENG at all with this ship.

I have often wondered whether there was a link to network connection quality and the mini-game, but I really don't know, as far as I'm aware I have a pretty solid 60Mb/4Mb connection, yet since the changes in 1.4 the whole mini-game has been a non starter for me. <shrug>

I think, not 100% sure, that in the event of a submission, nobody spins, but even so, being able to fire so quickly after entering normal space seems weird. Hard points take a few seconds just to deploy...

Shame you can't have 6 pips to ENG then.

 

[careBear1]

Interdicted at star on exit of fsd jump, mid-travel. 'i have found my next target cmdr and its you' taunt. No cargo (checked). No active bounties (checked). Not powerplay aligned.

 

[DHMeyer]

When is Frontier just going to admit that this hopelessly stupid mechanic is functionally broken? If they want the galaxy to be dangerous, then give us more reason to fly outside of Supercruise to begin with:

-Require that we drop from SC at a minimum of 25km from a Station, to give them fair warning of ships approaching. This makes sense from an immersion, regulatory and security standpoint.

-Require that we deliver goods to local cargo shuttles who will then issue our payment and relay the cargo to the station. This would require dropping from SC around the 25km mark, and maneuvering to within the safe area around a station - leaving us vulnerable to attack for several minutes.

-Require delivery of goods to bases within Asteroid belts and planetary rings. No SC all the way to the dock. Lots of manual flying, in environments pirates can hide in.

-Require ship registration at the Nav Beacon in populated, Non-Anarchy (and ONLY in populated non-Anarchy) systems. In other words...until you have "checked in" at the Nav beacon and registered your presence in populated systems, you CANNOT enter into SC and travel around the system, without constant threat of system security taking you out for trying to hide. Running Silent would help you avoid scans by system security at the Nav Beacon, and if you can hide for a given number of seconds, then you may enter into SC from there and try and stealth your way through or out of a system.

-Give us lots of missions that require us to pick up Cargo in places that are not stations, such as: Asteroid/Ring bases; tourist destinations; remote system bases. Places we have to approach in normal flight mode.

-If technically possible, stop making SC and normal flight two separate world spaces/worlds (technically speaking, game engine wise) within your game. Seamless space would eliminate the NEED for SC and thus for Interdiction to begin with. Which is the way the game should have been built to begin with, frankly.

There are ways to make Elite dangerous without relying on this frustration inducing and frankly mechanically broken game play interruption. Beginning with one question: should this activity BE dangerous to begin with? Because chances are really good, that 95% or more of the garbage we haul around on missions or during trade runs, wouldnt interest a pirate to begin with. You dont see pirates in the real world hijacking ships full or lumber or steel; they want wealthy captives for ransom...or rare or exotic goods and/or oil. Elite needs to be at least as believable, and go from there in terms of working out how to make the world dangerous...without also making it insanely tedious and annoying (which it is now).

Your ideas would make this game a.) boring as hell, flying around stations is cool for a while, but the novelty quickly wears off b.) disruptive to any activity other than piracy, which is rather pointless, because if you have a massive galaxy where trade is not viable (as it would be if you were 1. stopped at every possible point on your way between the stations 2. blown to pieces every other run), you will get pirates with no one to hunt, as traders will not play in such a galaxy, which leaves only exploration and mining as other possible activities. Good luck finding explorers or miners in 400bn star systems. Or even within the bubble.

You have this sort of gameplay in CQC. One space, ships hanging around structures and shooting at each other. So FD sort of gave you the option you're asking for.

As for the loading screens and 3 different space travel modes (of which one is purely a loading screen, as witch space is just a loading screen) I guess they did SC and normal space for some reason. Quite possibly it might have not been possible to remove the loading screen here because of the engine constraints and quite possibly FD realised that enabling dogfights in SC would lead to a lot of frustration. Just imagine trying to fight with SC speeds. Good for the ones who don't want to fight, because 1. all ships handle about the same in SC 2. all ships have the same acceleration and max speed in SC 3. hunters would find themselves trapped in gravity wells a lot. That's why they had to put interdiction mechanics of some sort in place: to force players to drop out to normal speed and having to depend on their ship characteristics as well as flying skills.
Having normal space speeds (in m/s) allows you to actually target other ships and also allows the devs to make ships that behave and handle in different ways.

Having said that, interdiction mini game is probably the least used mini game in elite, at least when it comes to NPCs interdicting players or players interdicting players. Most players will probably just submit and run or submit and fight. It's only useful when hunting down NPC vessels. Personally I just submit and treat the interdicition as just another loading screen.

 

[Lightspeed]

Judging by Beta experience, the Interdiction mechanic has improved and is much fairer to the ship being interdicted .... i.e. you stand a fair chance if you keep it in, or near, the blue zone - and it doesn't jump all over the place. So hold on for 2.2

 

[Mercury7]

Interdicted at star on exit of fsd jump, mid-travel. 'i have found my next target cmdr and its you' taunt. No cargo (checked). No active bounties (checked). Not powerplay aligned.

I had this twice yesterday! I was interdicted within maybe 5 seconds of dropping out of high-wake. The second NPC to try that move got sent to hell.

 

[rrobes]

I had this twice yesterday! I was interdicted within maybe 5 seconds of dropping out of high-wake. The second NPC to try that move got sent to hell.

My experience is that these instant interdictions are attached to certain missions either from the beginning or as a message in:re that hostiles are being sent to intercept you and a separate bounty is available.

The spin cycle is easy to avoid. If you want combat and you receive a message about an interdiction, immediately submit and stop to set your pips and deploy your armament then wait for your victim; if you're running, plot a jump to another system and go or do the submit/run, submit/run, to you reach a station (let security blow the NPC up).

The interdiction mini game has been part of ED for some time, I doubt that it would be changed too much any time soon.

 

[pipo zelvelder]

FWIW since release (I'm an early beta backer but wiped my commander for the first 'official' release) I only got 5 insurance claims and IIRC only one was actually caused by an NPC. The rest was due to overconfidence, tiredness, glorious idiocy and - red wine. That's for "the-game-is-too-difficult-and-unplayable" people... The game is hard for new pilots but with increased experience it's getting a lot easier over time.

You are quite right; and I agree mostly, but I think at this moment the game is TOO hard for new pilots. And I base this on my first three months, where it was tough but playable to me. Then 2.1 happened and the game was unplayable for three months to me. Now I am slowly picking up and even earning money on interdictors that keep eating my mines. But i still think it is a lesser fun game than the pre-engineering version.

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My experience is that these instant interdictions are attached to certain missions either from the beginning or as a message in:re that hostiles are being sent to intercept you and a separate bounty is available.
.

I very much disagree. I stopped doing missions to avoid interdictions and that worked quite well for a time, but now i am constantly interdicted again. Maybe because they hate me in this part of the universe (do not know which part i am in now, but after a few weeks rest, i am interdicted 50% of the time now). I do not have a power attached, nor do missions of any kind, i am just mining in a politically correct part of the universe, that should not have much pirates and a lot of police, but it only seems to have interdictors... So missions is not it, I still bet it is a bug, but triggered from what???

 

[rrobes]

You are quite right; and I agree mostly, but I think at this moment the game is TOO hard for new pilots. And I base this on my first three months, where it was tough but playable to me. Then 2.1 happened and the game was unplayable for three months to me. Now I am slowly picking up and even earning money on interdictors that keep eating my mines. But i still think it is a lesser fun game than the pre-engineering version.

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I very much disagree. I stopped doing missions to avoid interdictions and that worked quite well for a time, but now i am constantly interdicted again. Maybe because they hate me in this part of the universe (do not know which part i am in now, but after a few weeks rest, i am interdicted 50% of the time now). I do not have a power attached, nor do missions of any kind, i am just mining in a politically correct part of the universe, that should not have much pirates and a lot of police, but it only seems to have interdictors... So missions is not it, I still bet it is a bug, but triggered from what???

Mining by itself can cause interdictions. If you mine inside a RES you will have interruptions. You should mine away from the RES at a random spot. NPC's will still come, but if you destroy that first set of interlopers, I find that I am left in peace for extended periods of time. What you have is not a bug because at some point I went through the exact same thing. Believe me, the game sometimes feels to me as a somewhat malevolent entity as well (HAL 9000?).

This is the beauty/frustration of ED, similar circumstances, different results. The biggest issue for some CMDR's is that they would like to pursue a game style that doesn't involve combat, however, combat is woven into ED everywhere. I got tired of being prey and became predator. I did the grind(s) and now I can mine, trade, explore and do combat with minimal risk. NPC's are just capital gains to my CR balance. This is not bragging as anyone can do it, but it takes time, a lot of it (1700+ hrs, as they say individual results may vary).

 

[Mercury7]

In the last week I have been interdicted for no reason (not carrying cargo, not on a mission). No messages, either, and when I have dropped out of SC, nothing. Whatever interdicted me just disappeared.

+1 for dropping and waiting! I have done this a couple of times now with great success. You need to stop and wait for them to appear after you drop out of SC. It seems to make it so much harder for them to attack you.

 

[nunyabusiness]

What theyre wanting you to do -

Is prove it using kiddy toys like people that absolutely have to put their 'lets play' videos up on youtube.

i dont stream, i dont record my play, i dont have it set up, i dont want to set it up, i wont set it up, if you want to pay me to set it up and do a deal for broadcast rights, fine, but go to hell if you think im gonna waste time, resources, and put my pc at risk by streaming anything. If thats the way that reporting game issues is going to be then nope, i stop playing and stop paying for game software. especially multiplayer stuff which i barely tolerate anyway (sorry dudes, i dont take kindly to 13 year olds targetting me repeatedly with everything they have and screaming at me what theyre going to do with my mother simply because im playing the same game as them.... which seems to be about 95% of multiplayer games)

Im not a showoff... these are known game issues. At least you guys can get the blue bar up... i understand how the 'minigame' is meant to work.... but all i see is an irritating blue circle randomly floating around the stream, and no matter what i do im about to either going to utterly destroy whats interdicted me, or im going to be completely wiped out by it in two shots... as the level and ability of whats after you seems to be for the most part random.

 

[Mike Reacher]

I guess it is all fairly random, what we are discussing. I do missions mostly and get interdicted all the time.
I'm not good at combat, maybe because I learnt on keyboard and not using my joystick. The blue circle sucks you in sometimes, not moving a lot, the jumping away to disappear.
Maybe to late to submit fully. Hence a big spin.

All of the above is worth taking on board, but I gotta say that I got interdicted within seconds of dropping in to a port for my coffee three times by the same guy.
Each interdiction placed me several light seconds further away from the port even though at that time, I did not spin at all.
The game interface had the planet on my left, the port on my nose, and 1) interdiction, 2) dead stop, 3) planet was then a small dot way in front of me.
If I spun, I'd expect to be thrown across the system, but in this instance, no spin three times, submitted, boosted, got close to planet and port again, interdicted, planet a small dot again ........
It can't be all as planned. There has to be some glitches or bugs that need ironing out. Wont happen any time soon.
PS: I just want to explore now.

 

[Faded Glory]

I guess it is all fairly random, what we are discussing. I do missions mostly and get interdicted all the time.
I'm not good at combat, maybe because I learnt on keyboard and not using my joystick. The blue circle sucks you in sometimes, not moving a lot, the jumping away to disappear.
Maybe to late to submit fully. Hence a big spin.

All of the above is worth taking on board, but I gotta say that I got interdicted within seconds of dropping in to a port for my coffee three times by the same guy.
Each interdiction placed me several light seconds further away from the port even though at that time, I did not spin at all.
The game interface had the planet on my left, the port on my nose, and 1) interdiction, 2) dead stop, 3) planet was then a small dot way in front of me.
If I spun, I'd expect to be thrown across the system, but in this instance, no spin three times, submitted, boosted, got close to planet and port again, interdicted, planet a small dot again ........
It can't be all as planned. There has to be some glitches or bugs that need ironing out. Wont happen any time soon.
PS: I just want to explore now.

Just to say, being pulled back away from your target / destination is how the thing is supposed to work, like it or not. Essentially, the interdictor, who is behind you, pulls you back towards them... Whether it's a good idea mechanic is obviously debatable, but it's working as intended.

Some of the bugs you mention are sorted in 2.2 (beta) it would seem, such as the wildly veering escape vector in the mini-game. That said, the blue progress marker not moving when you are on target still seems to occur, at least it did for me.

I think one of the big issues is that the outcome of being interdicted seems to feel quite punishing, (presumably) that's as intended, but I think when you put all of it together, the mini-game, the fact that progress bars sometimes seem not to move, the insta-fails (also possibly fixed in 2.2) and the punishing result, especially if you try an engage and fail, all go towards making interdictions something that some players just dislike engaging in.

In my experience the frequency of interdictions can be controlled somewhat. I rarely get interdicted when I'm not expecting it, but then again, the fact that pretty much all missions have the possibility of hostile actions does make it feel as though FD really, really want players to be engaged in combat, regardless of what they actually want to do.

 

[pipo zelvelder]

In my experience the frequency of interdictions can be controlled somewhat. I rarely get interdicted when I'm not expecting it, but then again, the fact that pretty much all missions have the possibility of hostile actions does make it feel as though FD really, really want players to be engaged in combat, regardless of what they actually want to do.

I disagree with you on that. I think the frequency of interdictions can not be controlled and is flawed in 2.1. I played weeks without much interdiction after i let my combat rating be reset. and of late, interdictions are crawling back to 50% of my runs; so I must have done something too      the AI off... I just do not know what. Everything is hard to play for me now, as every run copuld be a deathtrap; although i became that good a pilot, that i sometimes add their bounty to my paylist... (yeah yeah)
But the real newbees shopuld not be pestered by these number of interdictions, if they don't choose a power, do not do missions... That is lame..

Let's put our hope in 2.2; do not know how 2.2 will be, but fear for the worst since 2.1; the game always became more technical, more difficult and less playable so far, so I wonder if they break with that for a change, but as i saw all the things mentioned to be added, the game even becomes more difficult and less atrractive for new players: too much to choose and to less guidance for a beginning player; but maybe they will allow for a seperated training areas for newbees???

 

[Faded Glory]

I disagree with you on that. I think the frequency of interdictions can not be controlled and is flawed in 2.1. I played weeks without much interdiction after i let my combat rating be reset. and of late, interdictions are crawling back to 50% of my runs; so I must have done something too the AI off... I just do not know what. Everything is hard to play for me now, as every run copuld be a deathtrap; although i became that good a pilot, that i sometimes add their bounty to my paylist... (yeah yeah)
But the real newbees shopuld not be pestered by these number of interdictions, if they don't choose a power, do not do missions... That is lame..

Let's put our hope in 2.2; do not know how 2.2 will be, but fear for the worst since 2.1; the game always became more technical, more difficult and less playable so far, so I wonder if they break with that for a change, but as i saw all the things mentioned to be added, the game even becomes more difficult and less atrractive for new players: too much to choose and to less guidance for a beginning player; but maybe they will allow for a seperated training areas for newbees???

Well, I sympathize, honestly, if you are finding interdictions problematic. Glad you are managing to destroy a few of your interdictors though.

I am simply speaking from my own experience. It sounds like you are not involved in PP and not doing missions, both of which can influence how many interdictions you get. How about system security? What are the security levels in the systems you are in? I'm thinking this may influence how often NPCs try to get at players (as it should). I would say the if you are being interdicted for no reason 50% of the time you fly, that is excessive, and most definitely does not match my experience.

As to controlling or influencing the frequency, you mention the two big things, PP and missions, and of course the other is if you have engineering commodities in your hold. Of course there will still be some random interdictions for no reason, but as I said, my experience is that these are pretty rare. As for the game being hard for new players, well, all the Elite games have had a pretty steep learning curve, and new players should, if they take missions (for example) relative to their rank, be able to cope. Many low level missions have no interdictions at all, and if they do, they are from low level ships.

As for 2.2, I am testing the beta, and find it no different from 2.1 in frequency, and in the causes for interdictions. In fact, I tested a few passenger missions yesterday, including a couple of high ranking ones that should have spawned interdictions, but which did not.

 

[pipo zelvelder]

I am simply speaking from my own experience. It sounds like you are not involved in PP and not doing missions, both of which can influence how many interdictions you get. How about system security? What are the security levels in the systems you are in? I'm thinking this may influence how often NPCs try to get at players (as it should). I would say the if you are being interdicted for no reason 50% of the time you fly, that is excessive, and most definitely does not match my experience.

As to controlling or influencing the frequency, you mention the two big things, PP and missions, and of course the other is if you have engineering commodities in your hold. Of course there will still be some random interdictions for no reason, but as I said, my experience is that these are pretty rare. As for the game being hard for new players, well, all the Elite games have had a pretty steep learning curve, and new players should, if they take missions (for example) relative to their rank, be able to cope. Many low level missions have no interdictions at all, and if they do, they are from low level ships.

As for 2.2, I am testing the beta, and find it no different from 2.1 in frequency, and in the causes for interdictions. In fact, I tested a few passenger missions yesterday, including a couple of high ranking ones that should have spawned interdictions, but which did not.

I do not expect that 2.2 will solve this, as they apparently have not figured out yet why some players at some point in time or space have a 50% interdiction rate. I am mining in a Clipper now, 7 ls (!) from my station in a democracy system, and still i am interdicted on these trips. Luckily, i can cope mostly, and because of the incredible short distance, they are sometime announced but do not appear in time...
Still, not really my idea of fun, though i like the mining part and trading part still.

So, having fun, but with grinding...