The Star Citizen Thread v5

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What happened with EVE's spacelegs? Never got into it so first time hearing about this, any links that cover this drama?
This will be somewhat OT, but there are som interesting parallels worth noting.

The best explanation is actually not to be found in EVE, but in the failed attempt at producing a World of Darkness game, which was supposed to share the legs tech. They tried to use EVE as a test bed for some of it, and it ended up being a hugely unoptimised, non-multiplayer, gfx-card-melting (no, really), non-optional and immensely cumbersome UI that only served the purpose of giving people a reason to spend cash on the newly implemented micro macrotransaction clothing store. There was no gameplay and no variety whatsoever, just a bad tech demo of single room you could (slowly) amble around in.

It was a perfect ****storm, where the non-delivery of proper spacelegs coincided with the MT nonsense, which coincided with removal of a fast and useful UI, which coincided with their failed attempt at monetising their API and charging a fan site tax, which coincided with spectacular mismanagement of the community (the CEO essentially saying “they don't understand what they want, keep selling”; their head of community relations saying “of course it's expensive, it's like designer import jeans”; and their leaked internal cheerleading magazine said “let's sell game advantages”), which coincided with the one-year anniversary of their promising that there would only ever be minor cosmetic MT, which ultimately coincided with there not having been any significant additions to the core gameplay — you know, space ships flying in space — for almost a year and a half. It's (semi)famously known as the “Summer of Rage”, the mere beginnings of which are somewhat captured in the 500-page thread (or thereabouts, pages upon pages of posts were deleted for being too abusive) that spawned after one poor dev tried to reach out. She left the company soon thereafter… Say “stop” if any of those components sound familiar.

In the end, they lost somewhere between 10–20% of their customers over the next 2 months (and never really recovered); were forced fly the “CSM” — an elected body of community representatives — to an emergency meeting in Iceland to try to regain a means of communication (because nothing CCP posted themselves worked; any official post just fuelled the rage and hostility was the only response they ever received); go into a year-long media blackout because they had no chance of getting their message out without it being drowned out by players (or by the laughter of industry insiders); and soon had to reinstate the UI, remove all need to ever use spacelegs, and pretty much abandon the whole project. Even then, a lot of the in-station variety was lost forever. All in all, a fine example of how a community forces a developer to stop being .
 
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This will be somewhat OT, but there are som interesting parallels worth noting.

The best explanation is actually not to be found in EVE, but in the failed attempt at producing a World of Darkness game, which was supposed to share the legs tech. They tried to use EVE as a test bed for some of it, and it ended up being a hugely unoptimised, non-multiplayer, gfx-card-melting (no, really), non-optional and immensely cumbersome UI that only served the purpose of giving people a reason to spend cash on the newly implemented micro macrotransaction clothing store. There was no gameplay and no variety whatsoever, just a bad tech demo of single room you could (slowly) amble around in.

It was a perfect ****storm, where the non-delivery of proper spacelegs coincided with the MT nonsense, which coincided with removal of a fast and useful UI, which coincided with their failed attempt at monetising their API and charging a fan site tax, which coincided with spectacular mismanagement of the community (the CEO essentially saying “they don't understand what they want, keep selling”; their head of community relations saying “of course it's expensive, it's like designer import jeans”; and their leaked internal cheerleading magazine said “let's sell game advantages”), which coincided with the one-year anniversary of their promising that there would only ever be minor cosmetic MT, which ultimately coincided with there not having been any significant additions to the core gameplay — you know, space ships flying in space — for almost a year and a half. It's (semi)famously known as the “Summer of Rage”, the mere beginnings of which are somewhat captured in the 500-page thread (or thereabouts, pages upon pages of posts were deleted for being too abusive) that spawned after one poor dev tried to reach out. She left the company soon thereafter… Say “stop” if any of those components sound familiar.

In the end, they lost somewhere between 10–20% of their customers over the next 2 months (and never really recovered); were forced fly the “CSM” — an elected body of community representatives — to an emergency meeting in Iceland to try to regain a means of communication (because nothing CCP posted themselves worked; any official post just fuelled the rage and hostility was the only response they ever received); go into a year-long media blackout because they had no chance of getting their message out without it being drowned out by players (or by the laughter of industry insiders); and soon had to reinstate the UI, remove all need to ever use spacelegs, and pretty much abandon the whole project. Even then, a lot of the in-station variety was lost forever. All in all, a fine example of how a community forces a developer to stop being .


WOW, the year blackout sounds a bit like what Sean Murray is doing and NMS subreddit closing because of release of rage. Can't wait for some YT gamedoc about it, sounds like awesome story (emergency meeting in Iceland, lol)
 
Serious question: can someone explain to me what the issues are with these animations? I mean that's hardly groundbreaking tech. They did 20h MoCap, so the material is there. Everyone is doing this nowadays. What's so special with SQ42?

The kotaku articles point to the likely culprit...
- Cryengine comes with a skeletal animation/rigging system. Cryengine isn't "that" well used, but there are probably tools to connect their system to the output from mo-cap software.
- CIG replaced that system with their own rigging system to handle their 'higher fidelity' animations (I seem to remember something to do with injuries/grabbing objects/reloading/maybe clothing? [etc]).

It's worth noting that it's possible that their skeleton/rigging system may not have existed when the mo-cap was done, or conversely all the work they'd done on the game animations were done without the correct skeleton/rigging.

Like a lot of the story, this is the result of doing things in the wrong order, and amending the specification after work had started.
 
With the power of Acting these difficulties will be overcome!

I wouldn't be surprised if all the cutscenes etc move to full CGI so they can actually get product released, and the real actor mocap stuff relegated to voice and atmospheric backlit shilouette work - Bakshi style - to fulfill contracts, keep what work has been done, and not spend the next twenty years refactoring.
 
The kotaku articles point to the likely culprit...
- Cryengine comes with a skeletal animation/rigging system. Cryengine isn't "that" well used, but there are probably tools to connect their system to the output from mo-cap software.
- CIG replaced that system with their own rigging system to handle their 'higher fidelity' animations (I seem to remember something to do with injuries/grabbing objects/reloading/maybe clothing? [etc]).

It's worth noting that it's possible that their skeleton/rigging system may not have existed when the mo-cap was done, or conversely all the work they'd done on the game animations were done without the correct skeleton/rigging.

Like a lot of the story, this is the result of doing things in the wrong order, and amending the specification after work had started.

And when will they show these high fidelity animations? Because all i see is jerky stuff from the last decade.
 
Notice also, how the ground textures are significantly better in the mission area. A demo meant to focus on the terrain gen and we just see the handcrafted spot.

The area just around the only landing spot on the planet?

Yeah, I noticed that too :D
 
Ah, so the gaming equivalent of when NASA infamously botched the Mars Polar Lander mission in 1999, when the scientists managed to mix up imperial and metric standards of measurements, which led to the space probe smashing into the planet rather than aero-braking in the atmosphere....

An now Nasa run all their projects in metric, amazing what happens when someone loses a billion dollar probe, even Americans can be dragged into the modern age.
 
Notice also, how the ground textures are significantly better in the mission area. A demo meant to focus on the terrain gen and we just see the handcrafted spot.
I think I have to hand it to CIG - they didn't say it is coming any time soon (not that redditors aren't trying to paint it differently). Still, from all demos this was...very boring. I could overlook all technical glitches/glues/etc. if it was compelling but it is so cliche and so with CR way of doing this - selling dream of sci-fi universe where everyone can fill blanks - that is not even funny anymore. I hope SC backers get angry and tear this one down. Stupid pandering and shows CIG lack of any creativity.
 
The area just around the only landing spot on the planet?

Yeah, I noticed that too :D

Ships are quite law and regulation bound things now, huh?

CMDR: Taking the ship down at our current coordinates. Prep for touchdown.

Computer: Oooh, can't land there, I have to say Commander...the UEE would be annoyed.

CMDR: Bah, descent starting

Computer: Loud annoying blaring noise protocol initiated. Ear bleed in 20 seconds!
 
Do you guys think posting a topic in their general forums "Frank Herbert is turning in his grave" would grant the OP a ban ? Or would it just be deleted?
 
Notice also, how the ground textures are significantly better in the mission area. A demo meant to focus on the terrain gen and we just see the handcrafted spot.

Well, that was obvious :D They haven't really changed focus much. They still want to do huge CryEngine levels, they aren't sure how to fill up whole planets. Rest of the planet can be much lower fidelity.
 
I think I have to hand it to CIG - they didn't say it is coming any time soon (not that redditors aren't trying to paint it differently). Still, from all demos this was...very boring. I could overlook all technical glitches/glues/etc. if it was compelling but it is so cliche and so with CR way of doing this - selling dream of sci-fi universe where everyone can fill blanks - that is not even funny anymore. I hope SC backers get angry and tear this one down. Stupid pandering and shows CIG lack of any creativity.

Actually there is quite a backlash on the RSI forums. I've had a look in General Chat (I'm having a lazy day) and there are lots of comments, that would normally get probation or get threads sent to the concern ignore place, still hanging around.

Even some of the most fervent white knights are somewhat peeved.
 
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