The Star Citizen Thread v5

[ghcannon]

It looks too much "procedural", if you know what i mean.

Oddly enough, I do. However the word "homogenous" would have probably been better.

It does look samey. And making it not-samey without implementing a proper code framework of abstract objects (like stellar forge) is really really hard. So it's very normal to be suprised of CIG's claim that their algorithms can produce such quality.

It's really impossible to tell what the truth is. I see some good reasons to doubt CIG and some good reasons to trust on what they say. My overall verdict is somewhere in the middle.

 

[VidarSnipes]

Does anyone else think that citcon being a total disaster has marked a change in the tolerance the backers are willing to show to CiG's endless delays and mess-ups ?.

There's a definite refreshing upswing in free-speech on reddit and RSI. I think they might have gone one over-hyped under-delivered step too far.

Criticis on r/starcitizen aren't as suppressed by the community as they were before, but CIG is still racking up a tidy profit, even after the Citizencon presentation.

 

[1500]

Excuse me but how do you know that? I ran through bits of the flythrough video frame-by-frame and it I couldn't see stark differences in terrain topology between regions. Sure - they might have simply covered it really really well. But you don't really know.

They could have 50 developers working on algorithms for this. Maybe they just made it really really well.

Because you can see it in the video.

You can see the normal PG terrain get replaced with the handcrafted version, they look nothing alike.

 

[ianw]

Does anyone else think that citcon being a total disaster has marked a change in the tolerance the backers are willing to show to CiG's endless delays and mess-ups ?.

There's a definite refreshing upswing in free-speech on reddit and RSI. I think they might have gone one over-hyped under-delivered step too far.

It does look that way - some famously pro posters were very uncharacteristically negative especially in the immediate aftermath.

It really does look like the whole thing is having way more problems than looked evident even from a very pessimistic view from just before Cit Con.

 

[Jezzah]

Any chance you guys can quit doing the compare game between ED and SC terrain? It's pointless arguing this. They are different games in style and look simple as that.

It's not as if he has anything else to talk about after the citCON squib at the weekend eh.

 

[ghcannon]

Oh, by the way - something mind shattering for me was when the tech director of F42 (long haired guy) said that procedural planets were decided to be integrated in the design after one "stay wolf" did a cool tech demo.

Now ... the guy making a cool demo - fine. There are clever ppl out there.
What's ringing alarms to heaven is the fact that the planetary experience adds several hundred layers & conditions & constraints in the project that adds to the already existing complexity.

And you can't just in the middle of implementing a the grandmother of all systems decide to plug in another giant bunch of functionality. I don't know if there's even a single example in history that did something like that.

In software deveopment terms it is suicide. And they were like "meh, let's have that in, the tech demo looks cool"

It doesn't work that way! They'll have had to refactor almost everything up to that point.

If there's a software architech working for CIG currently reading this - I'm sorry .. ;(

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Because you can see it in the video.

http://i.imgur.com/UKJBd8w.gif

You can see the normal PG terrain get replaced with the handcrafted version, they look nothing alike.

Oh, thank you I didn't get this far I admit Indeed it looks interesting ...

 

[Dooguk]

Hi-Ban. You got Horizons now?

 

[Ian Skippy]

Oh, by the way - something mind shattering for me was when the tech director of F42 (long haired guy) said that procedural planets were decided to be integrated in the design after one "stay wolf" did a cool tech demo.

Now ... the guy making a cool demo - fine. There are clever ppl out there.
What's ringing alarms to heaven is the fact that the planetary experience adds several hundred layers & conditions & constraints in the project that adds to the already existing complexity.

And you can't just in the middle of implementing a the grandmother of all systems decide to plug in another giant bunch of functionality. I don't know if there's even a single example in history that did something like that.

In software deveopment terms it is suicide. And they were like "meh, let's have that in, the tech demo looks cool"

It doesn't work that way! They'll have had to refactor almost everything up to that point.

If there's a software architech working for CIG currently reading this - I'm sorry .. ;(

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Oh, thank you I didn't get this far I admit Indeed it looks interesting ...

It could be just another bull story. You know, hyping the magical talents of their staff.

 

[lysan]

The terrain in ED is excessively smooth, there are many rounded cliffs and mountains with not very great quality combo of geometry and textures, and then some scattered little rocks here and there which doesn't blend very well with the rest of the terrain. It looks too much "procedural", if you know what i mean.

I'm not saying that is "bad", considering ED has a gazillion of planets, but when you look at them closely, one by one, the visual fidelity is not that good.
Then, that's the balance between aiming for quantity over quality vs aiming for quality over quantity. This should be already known, but when some people try to attack the visual fidelity of SC by comparing it to ED, they sometimes forget that ED chose quantity over quality, and SC is going the opposite way.

You do know why that is right? Science, something SC do not use, sure it would be great to to see more fantasy landscapes but that is not how it works in ED.

No atmosphere, no wind, no wind no erosion, no erosion no sharp rock formations.

Fantasy artis Moon illustration

Real Moon picture (unless you believe we didn't go there)

Spoiler

If you're going to point issues out please use facts, not some mumbo jumbo talk we can hear in the 5th grade.

 

[Soliluna]

no! no! I see that whole helmet flip thing as indicative of the way Chris Roberts thinks about the player in his games. You are in his movie, he will direct your character. If you aren't the type of person that flips helmets IRL, then you are simply going to have to play the part of someone that does.

To be fair, maybe that's why the helmet flip doesn't appear. But my character can still perform some kind of horrible trope dance

I like it that, so far, ED doesn't force me to take on another persona. But maybe that's just me.

Before every combat scenario, regardless of the urgency, I like to play keepy-up with my helmet and roll it from hand to hand along my shoulders all the while juggling several loaded and cocked shotguns.

I like to do this, every time. EVERY time.

 

[Barking_Mad]

From Reddit.

Publishers complain about missed demos.
Publishers complain about pushing back delivery dates.
Publishers force developers to take the easy route, or the cheap route, or compromise their vision in order to meet a release date.
Publishers are the problem.
I gave CIG money specifically to keep publishers out of this process. I gave them money to put feature rich, revolutionary gameplay before target dates and 0-day patches.
As a community, we have effectively paid to keep publishers away.
Don't become the publisher.

 

[MarktJones]

Has anything space ship related been delivered in the last year, bar jpgs?

 

[jcrg99]

Anyone noticed that right now, Star Citizen is not scheduled to be fully released, not even by the end of 2017? And that, hopefully, by the end of 2017, people will have 1 system to fly around with some basic mechanics in tech demo/pre-alpha status and hopefully 1 chapter of Squadron 42, possibly full of cut-scenes and "press use" to complete the missions?

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13266-Letter-From-The-Chairman-19-Million

Finally there is one very important element – the more funds we can raise in the pre-launch phase, the more we can invest in additional content (more ships, characters etc.) and perhaps more importantly we can apply greater number of resources to the various tasks to ensure we deliver the full functionality sooner rather than later.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13284-Letter-From-The-Chairman-20-Million

"There has been some concern about “feature creep” with the additional stretch goals. You should all know that we carefully consider the goals we announce."
"But both types of goals are carefully considered — we don’t commit to adding features that would hold up the game’s ability to go “live” in a fully functional state. Also remember that this is not like a typical retail boxed product — there is no rule that all features and content have to come online at the same time!"

By the way... anyone noticed how Roberts persistently claimed that "people would kill him if he said this or that" and made fun in things that he said in the past, like trying to make them appear as mistakes of an optimistic/dreamer or nothing of impact?

IF that is the case, should we pay attention to anything that he said or claimed now? Won't be the same case in a few years, with he making fun of things that he said on the current Gamescon?

Just to let you know, he is trying to appear himself just like that, like just an incompetent manager/dev who make mistakes, to the eyes of the authorities, in order to avoid accusations of scam. He will have a hard time in a court, to prove that a 20-year veteran would make such repetitive/basic mistakes, specially when such mistakes are bait-and-switch/false ad that means more and more money in his pockets, given the business model that he adopt. But of course, he can try. As everything he always tries and makes, he is going to fail. No doubt, he will end this with some profit... but not without paying fines and burned for good in the game industry.

 

[Stigbob]

It does look that way - some famously pro posters were very uncharacteristically negative especially in the immediate aftermath.

It really does look like the whole thing is having way more problems than looked evident even from a very pessimistic view from just before Cit Con.

Yeah, I think having nothing to show from either the PU or SQ42 for citcon was very damning (and even worse than I expected).

It could be a good thing for SC though, a slap in the face that brings them back to earth a little. Something has to change on the actual playable progress front or even the die-hards will be saying it's doomed soon.

I think the hype event horizon has been crossed.

 

[Ian Skippy]

You do know why that is right? Science, something SC do not use, sure it would be great to to see more fantasy landscapes but that is not how it works in ED.

No atmosphere, no wind, no wind no erosion, no erosion no sharp rock formations.

Fantasy artis Moon illustration
http://www.skyandtelescope.com/wp-content/uploads/Shadows-Moon-Nasmyth-Carpenter-ST-TR.jpg

Real Moon picture (unless you believe we didn't go there)
http://spaceinfo.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/moon_575.jpg

Spoiler

https://www.rocketstem.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/07/19710800-AS15-E118360.jpg

If you're going to point issues out please use facts, not some mumbo jumbo talk we can hear in the 5th grade.

That only proves reality cant match the visual fidelity of SC! Now lets give the SC fans some time to look up the definition of 'fidelity'...

 

[Monk]

Has anything space ship related been delivered in the last year, bar jpgs?

Didn't the MISC Starfarer become playable this year?

 

[Asp Explorer]

That only proves reality cant match the visual fidelity of SC! Now lets give the SC fans some time to look up the definition of 'fidelity'...

Roll up! Roll up! Free dictionary with every Polaris ship sold!

 

[Maruun]

That only proves reality cant match the visual fidelity of SC! Now lets give the SC fans some time to look up the definition of 'fidelity'...

Yeah reality sucks...tell em something new

 

[Stigbob]

Has anything space ship related been delivered in the last year, bar jpgs?

Of course not space ships don't feature in an MVP, it's stolen sand people speeder bikes or Shanks pony you content locust.

(be sure to vary your stride or you'll attract a worm)

 

[jcrg99]

From Reddit.

I would be happy if RSI was 'becoming' like a publisher. In fact, they are a lot worst than the most greedy/worst of the publishers. No publisher have so disrespect to their customer base (because its bad for the business in the medium/long term) as RSI has.