Worst. Thing. Ever! (2.2 beta 7 system map

[[VR] optimal_909]

Indeed,

The making of Elite : Screensaver one brick at a time. So sad.

To be frank, I was really looking forward for this, allowing us to find more interesting surface features in an already "too large" galaxy - I was even delaying my departure so that I can experience it right off the start, the single most anticipated feature for me.
I can't believe they'd delete this feature without asking the explorer community about it.

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Are these guys angry about the blacked out planetary icons in the system map? Because that is a bug and won't be in the release version. As has been pointed out numerous times in this thread. Some are angry that the detailed planetary map will only appear as a scan, but I'd hardly call that game breaking, after all, until 2.2 we didn't even have a detailed surface map.

In that case not game breaking, but as just noted, for me it was the most anticipated feature in 2.2.
And those complaining about it, never seen those names in the exploration subforum. If I was making demands about whatever new weapons.

 

[bitstorm]

I'm confused, this ISN'T a good change for explorers?

It seems like it would be, like go explore to reveal details. surface scan bodies to permanently add the surface data to your database, isn't that the point, literally exploring to uncover things?

Would upping the DSS range a bit help?

 

[Muetdhiver]

Is pointing at a dot for 30s 20-50x in a row exploring ? really ?

If DSS was giving usefull intel for stuff like geysers locations and other geological POIs locations, it would be an other story altogether.

 

[Jackie Silver]

I'll try to render this silly obfuscation useless and in such a way that it would be pointless to attempt to reintroduce it.

I believe FD's efforts would be better spent on introducing new and interesting things to the galaxy instead of hiding what's already there.

 

[GJ51]

Just another bungled introduction of a new feature due to FD's classic poor decision/communication process.

Make the troops think one thing, then reverse course, add confusion and poor communication and stir the pot needlessly.

Why even announce a feature before you can clearly communicate how it will work when released.

It really doesn't matter to me how this works. I'm just, once again, fascinated as to why FD insists on stimulating the toxic arguments here that are unnecessary and could have been so easily avoided.

Pretty astounding, when you realize it has been the pattern now for over two years.

 

[Aura Lorell]

It's impossible to please everyone and the task of finding a solution that will be the best compromise is a huge one to say the least and in some cases extremely difficult. This is one of these cases:

• The blackened planets is a confirmed bug. This means the visual and auditory aspects of the planets remain exactly as they were in 2.1, leaving no one at a disadvantage (for example people with hearing difficulties).
• For explorers: it makes sense that they will get the detailed surface when they use the surface scanner. This, I believe, enhances the immersion and makes the detailed scan worth something more than just numbers in a box on the system map.
• For racers: even though it's understandable that getting the detailed surface automatically would make your lives easier, this is not a bad compromise. Specifically, before this change you had to fly around the planet, looking for suitable areas. Now you don't, you can simply do a first inspection on the surface map and only if you spot something interesting you can approach for a visual confirmation. It saves you time and additionally even a basic scan without a dedicated DSS can reveal the same information. I know it's not what you wanted but it's a lot better than what you had up to this point.

It's difficult to communicate complete features before they have been tested and tried by the player base and at the same time there is no such thing as a design decision that will make everyone happy. All of us have to compromise to some degree and the developers/designers have to do the same. It's easy to point fingers but I think in this case it's unfair and FD have made huge efforts to communicate and listen as early as possible.

 

[JesusRocks1988]

I personally had in mind using the new surface map feature to tell whether those far out ice balls 100,000ls+ are actually worth going to. Many of those planets are never scanned due to their distance, when they could very well harbour some wonderful features that will never be seen, equally they could mostly be featureless and flat. The new surface map as it was advertised at Gamescom, would have encouraged people to not skip those worlds, or at least show people whether the time investment is worth it.

Now we're back at square one with having to get close enough to practically see the planets anyway to know whether they're worth it.... So that we can see a preview in the system map of a planet we're only likely to visit once before carrying on to the next system, and then never visit ever again. In that sense, giving us a preview of the planet's surface after we've been to it is pointless.

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

Just another bungled introduction of a new feature due to FD's classic poor decision/communication process.

Make the troops think one thing, then reverse course, add confusion and poor communication and stir the pot needlessly.

Why even announce a feature before you can clearly communicate how it will work when released.

It really doesn't matter to me how this works. I'm just, once again, fascinated as to why FD insists on stimulating the toxic arguments here that are unnecessary and could have been so easily avoided.

Pretty astounding, when you realize it has been the pattern now for over two years.

I think the community's involvement is way overdone, there is a certain type of gamer that will always set a tone that may (or rather) may not reflect the views of the player base. By doing so, FD risks building Homer Simpson's car - and this is why visionaries such as Braben play a very important role by following coherent vision about what they are trying to achieve.

The benefit of having detailed map for me is to make it easier to find amazing landscapes, irregular shaped potato planets and so on. If the scope/subject of exploration would be limited, I'd understand the tone of making such discoveries more difficult, but with 400 billion systems most of the interesting stuff will remain undiscovered anyway.

 

[Muetdhiver]

It's impossible to please everyone and the task of finding a solution that will be the best compromise is a huge one to say the least and in some cases extremely difficult. This is one of these cases:

• The blackened planets is a confirmed bug. This means the visual and auditory aspects of the planets remain exactly as they were in 2.1, leaving no one at a disadvantage (for example people with hearing difficulties).
• For explorers: it makes sense that they will get the detailed surface when they use the surface scanner. This, I believe, enhances the immersion and makes the detailed scan worth something more than just numbers in a box on the system map.
• For racers: even though it's understandable that getting the detailed surface automatically would make your lives easier, this is not a bad compromise. Specifically, before this change you had to fly around the planet, looking for suitable areas. Now you don't, you can simply do a first inspection on the surface map and only if you spot something interesting you can approach for a visual confirmation. It saves you time and additionally even a basic scan without a dedicated DSS can reveal the same information. I know it's not what you wanted but it's a lot better than what you had up to this point.

It's difficult to communicate complete features before they have been tested and tried by the player base and at the same time there is no such thing as a design decision that will make everyone happy. All of us have to compromise to some degree and the developers/designers have to do the same. It's easy to point fingers but I think in this case it's unfair and FD have made huge efforts to communicate and listen as early as possible.

• I know that. It was my first question when seeing something that dumb.
• While it makes sense and increase immersion for explorers, it does not get in their way of playing. Having the ADS revealing surfaces does not get in their way of playing either. Lowers their immersion a bit (though, how does the DSS scan the backside of the planet ? immersion when it suits people...)
• For racers, tourists and canyon racers maps from DSS it's a massive loss of time. Especially for moons that can be scanned only at less than 5ls, since you are so close that 3s more you are in visual range, i.e. no better than before. In other words : it impact their gameplay by keeping a time wall nearly as large as it was before, instead of nurturing these kind of gameplay.

I did test this feature, and it was fantastic to find prime spot while exploring with my iCourrier. I went to a gas giant moon 70K ls away because of it. I would never gone there without knowing what the surface looked like before hand,
because 95% of the time, it would have been a waste of time...

 

[MickyG1982]

I may be peeing into the wind here, but surely the whole point of a detailed surface scanner is to, well, be used to make a detailed scan of the surface thereby providing you with a pretty planetary map?

I fail to understand how giving you a reason to actually explore the whole system is going to kill exploration...

But maybe that's just me.

The "honk" should provide positional and orbital info only, the rest should involve getting up close and actually scanning the object. With the ADS providing basic info and the detailed surface scanner providing you with a map, once you are close enough.

 

[Muetdhiver]

I may be peeing into the wind here, but surely the whole point of a detailed surface scanner is to, well, be used to make a detailed scan of the surface thereby providing you with a pretty planetary map?

I fail to understand how giving you a reason to actually explore the whole system is going to kill exploration...

But maybe that's just me.

Maybe because somethime people get out of the bubble to do something else than scan every damn body in every damn systems ?

Like finding prime spots for photo OPs and such. Not exploring per se, but high engagement activities, unlike pointing at dots... which people
would like to gate behind pointing at dots and waiting, instead of empowering these "alternative" gameplay types by allowing to do what they
want, and not what explorers think they should be doing...

Btw, if DSS is required to obtain the surface, it should only give the part one faces, i.e. two scans per body at least. Otherwise it would break
immersion and not make sense...

 

[BeanpotBeanie]

I'm not in the Beta and this map effect happened to me the other day. Just closed the map, re-scanned the system and everything was good. Annoying yes but not the end of the world.

 

[Manticore]

I fail to see why this is not in the bug reports sub-forum. This is why the 2.2 is still in beta no doubt; bugs.

I look forward to seeing 2.2 drop for real!

 

[Eloy]

Thanks Michael.

I will add I don't see the point in hiding the surface map behind a DSS scan - maybe you can explain the mechanism behind how the detailed surface scanner can ascertain the surface map of the complete planet, just by scanning from one side of it

Regards o7

"How can you see the bones inside a body "
People probably, 200 years ago.

 

[Muetdhiver]

"How can you see the bones inside a body "
People probably, 200 years ago.

That hold for ADS too btw... handwavium cuts both ways XD

 

[Mysturji]

the narrow minded elitism shown by some is mind boggling.

I see what you did there.

 

[Mengy]

Oh I saw. Absolutely don't care. You wanna kill exploration? Done. There we go.

Er, um, how does this new feature kill exploration in 2.2? It's literally going to work exactly like it does now in 2.1, except that in 2.2 if you surface scan a planet you also get a surface map of said planet. It's an exploration bonus actually, it's new extra content, so how will that kill exploration? :S


I like the new feature, but I do think it's time to implement another quick and easy QoL change to help improve the gameplay of exploration: make surface scans much faster than they are now. Here is what I posted in the other thread on this:

I tend to agree with Michael's decision to make a close scan required to reveal surface maps while still keeping the "old" way of revealing the thumbnails with a honk. I feel that this is the right way to implement this new mechanic as it rewards the player's time taken to actually fly to the planet and scan it. HOWEVER, I do feel that this might be the time to address one huge area where exploration can significantly be improved upon, and Obsidian Ant hit on it with this post:

The problem here is that Elite doesn't have the type of gameplay to support that form of exploration.

What we have now is about as basic as it can possibly get "point a ship at a planet for 30 seconds". This isn't exploration.

What we have here is a huge un-interactive time sink. It's that 30 seconds required to scan a planet that brutally drags down exploration gameplay, and it's not even needed because the commander is already taking the time to actually fly to close range of the planet just to do the scan. Sure you can make it scan faster by taking the time to fly closer yet, but IMHO that shouldn't even be a thing. If you fly to within scanner range then the scan should complete within a few seconds, say five or so. Exploration is already very time consuming, especially if you are fully scanning entire systems, and while the flight time itself is kinda required I feel that lessening the actual scanner operation time would go a long way towards making people feel much more enthusiastic about actually scanning planets.

Frontier should get rid of the time sink with scanning planets, it's really not adding anything of value to the game in my humble opinion. Please make the surface scans much faster. Or at least give us an engineer blueprint to do so!

 

[Kuroshio]

Loving the blacked out version. Sorry, but that's just my own, very personal opinion: It would mean that Exploration isn't about being there first anymore, but about deciding what might be worth exploring.

I feel dirty and guilty for loving it, but I do. It would force us to ask questions about habitable zones, the science of planetary systems, and it would force us to develop instincts for what might be interesting. I'd be really, really, happy about this.

 

[RevLogos]

What's the point in having the 3D surface map at all if you need to get close enough for a DSS scan such that you only need to venture in a couple of seconds more to see the planet surface anyway?

But you don't move in close enough to actually see the planet's surface do you? Why? Because though it only takes a few seconds to get in close, it takes a long time to get out of the gravity well to get to your next target.

 

[RadActiveLobster]

Wait, so now we need a DSS to see the planet map? I thought they said just a basic scan would do it?