A Guide to Minor Factions and the Background Sim

[Gemai]

So, as you saw. Maybe the aligned "subgoverment types" can bridge categories?

Welp, so much for that theory, it seems it is because you are a PMF. Either that or Winters has a special effect as well which is doubtful. I fear your PMF is affected by the "Cubeo Virus". Your faction acts differently than its mentioned typus. It is not a "real" corporation. Maybe FD wanted you guys to not fight all other faction types.

Proof in point:

Federal Democracy vs Independant Corporation (both non PMF) = HATE. And this is even in WINTERS territory. So we are back at "hard group borders" until disproven for NON-PMFs.

 

[jimbeau1571]

Given all we do know about the BGS and Minor Factions, I think if I were to say KISS - Keep it Simple Stupid.
This is not to say you are stupid, but that the BGS is not that complicated, and everything so far has been just that. Simple.

'Look for simple answers and you may find complication.
Look for complication and you'll never find the simple.' M.Dunning 1986 Physics Class

 

[CMDR pollycough]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^+1^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

 

[Gemai]

The simple answer is:

FD sets some PMFs up to be b-astards. Either by design or just by their backstory. Thus they can act like hybrids. One of the worst case is PI in Cubeo, selling like anarchists, being a system patronage and acting in galaxy and PP like a democracy.

So each PMF has their own "special circumstances". Non PMFs follow the simple group by group rule.

 

[SaliVader]

The simple answer is:

FD sets some PMFs up to be b-astards. Either by design or just by their backstory. Thus they can act like hybrids. One of the worst case is PI in Cubeo, selling like anarchists, being a system patronage and acting in galaxy and PP like a democracy.

So each PMF has their own "special circumstances". Non PMFs follow the simple group by group rule.

What do you mean selling like anarchists?

 

[Gemai]

What do you mean selling like anarchists?

The PI sells and buys everything in their stations, even the stuff they punish you three seconds later while scanning you. One of the best jokes is them selling Narcotics but once you leave Chelomney you get fined during scans.

 

[Gemai]

Since we managed again to push ToC into its third consecutive war in the same system with two of them pending during the active war, I finally wrote a bug report. It is reproduceable apparently.

ToC may be our war enemy, but eternally locking them in war with next to no recovery period would be heartless.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/298262-BGS-War-Pending-during-War?p=4640880#post4640880

 

[Cmdr Noast]

Greetings Commanders

as a very regulat follower of this great thread , and after putting most of your advice into working practice i have problems understanding
the retreat

my knowlledge is
get the faction under 2.5 % for 5 days to trigger retreat
keep them there for 5 further days to force retreat

we now have a faction under 2.5 % for 6 days but no state is triggered
can one of you guys give a brief explanation of the retreat mechanics please ?

best regards
CMDR Noast

 

[jimbeau1571]

Greetings Commanders

as a very regulat follower of this great thread , and after putting most of your advice into working practice i have problems understanding
the retreat

my knowlledge is
get the faction under 2.5 % for 5 days to trigger retreat
keep them there for 5 further days to force retreat

we now have a faction under 2.5 % for 6 days but no state is triggered
can one of you guys give a brief explanation of the retreat mechanics please ?

best regards
CMDR Noast

You may have them at the required %, but nothing is triggering because
A) They are in conflict elsewhere (most likely)
B) The system is already down to 3 factions

Have you checked your right panel for Pending states?

 

[Cmdr Noast]

8 factions in the system , no pending state on the right panel

will check in their other 2 systems
update : they are in boom in their homesystem according to Innara , according to the starmap ...no state
so when , we will have to end the boom state first ?
maybe by delivering biowaste or scrap ?

 

[jimbeau1571]

8 factions in the system , no pending state on the right panel

will check in their other 2 systems
update : they are in boom in their homesystem according to Innara , according to the starmap ...no state
so when , we will have to end the boom state first ?
maybe by delivering biowaste or scrap ?

I don't trust Inara for any station/faction info, only market prices.
The factions are quite often wrong.
So if you think they are only in 2 systems, I'd start checking well beyond that, in all the systems to within 10ly at least.

 

[Sentenza]

So, I tried selling large quantities of slaves at a black market in beta (oh, the things you have to do for science) and that definitely triggered a pending bust instead of the expected lockdown. Repeated that for three days to be sure, each time more pending bust.

 

[jimbeau1571]

So, I tried selling large quantities of slaves at a black market in beta (oh, the things you have to do for science) and that definitely triggered a pending bust instead of the expected lockdown. Repeated that for three days to be sure, each time more pending bust.

I wouldn't expect anything else. Killing security will bring in lockdown though.

 

[Sentenza]

I wouldn't expect anything else. Killing security will bring in lockdown though.

Well, I wanted to check the match with this:

Smuggling should have pushed lockdown. At this point we can safely assume this table is no longer valid. In fact it also states that smuggling increases influence, but the same test showed a decrease instead, as if it was piracy.

 

[SuBSynk]

Since we managed again to push ToC into its third consecutive war in the same system with two of them pending during the active war, I finally wrote a bug report. It is reproduceable apparently.

ToC may be our war enemy, but eternally locking them in war with next to no recovery period would be heartless.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/298262-BGS-War-Pending-during-War?p=4640880#post4640880

We have been in contact with support regarding the many bugs discovered in the BGS for months now. Everything from continual war to influence being gathered without enough/any traffic in a system.

Thanks for "testing" the limits of the BGS while attempting to destroy our faction in game, its highlighted some of the problems we knew the BGS has in relation to influence gathering, war states, bugged missions etc. Support have finally acknowledged there are severe problems.

Hope you can get yourself a group/added in game at some point (adopting multiple in-game factions you want does not count) then we could at least have a group/faction to go to war with and take revenge on in game.

Now if you would please stop sending our members random PM's on our forums that would be appreciated.

 

[Sentenza]

Not sure what I just read. War has no cooldown by design, so it is correct that another war can go pending immediately. There is no "neutral" day either, from what I observed that applies only to pending civil states. But the next war should not go pending before the war ends. We know that updating is not istantaneous so you can see a state change one or two hours before/after actual system update, but one hour will not change your life.

 

[Gemai]

War has no cooldown by design, so it is correct that another war can go pending immediately.

This is correct in the old BGS cycles, but with the galactic update nearly a whole day behind (and the warzones still open) the Civil War etc. goes into recovery on its 4th day and you can not create a drive-by or supremacy war on that day. One has to wait for the none, or if something was pending long enough during war, effect day 1. On that a supremacy war can trigger for the first time or a new drive by war.

The day after the war victory which is still war is currently a DEAD day.

So yes it might not be a bug that you can trigger at day 3 for a new one, but then the fact you can't on day 1 past the victory during the ongoing war phase is.

So however you turn it, one of the two is a bug. So either way the BGS is not consistent.

We have been in contact with support regarding the many bugs discovered in the BGS for months now. Everything from continual war to influence being gathered without enough/any traffic in a system.

Thanks for "testing" the limits of the BGS while attempting to destroy our faction in game, its highlighted some of the problems we knew the BGS has in relation to influence gathering, war states, bugged missions etc. Support have finally acknowledged there are severe problems.

We fly in different timezones. If we influence the system right after the tick and you check them the next day after the tick, it wil be erased. It is called 24h traffic for a reason. We also know which missions, actions and deeds do the most effect with as little time and effort or traffic as possible if we go undercover. That isn't broken, that is us having the knowledge advantage in BGS. If you fight an experienced BGS group, expect such results. If anything we only showed what experts vs a small unexperienced zerg can do. Sentenza did the same.

Also Vesuvit and other systems drown in Cutter or Python traffic. Not sure how you can say "with low or any". You clearly don't look at the traffic properly. Maybe I should post it here to highlight its existence for you. I check it regularly to guess your traffic and plans.

Also you might instead want to put your rogue ASP on a leash. He might have joined you recently, but that guy that does missions for ANYONE in your territory even during your wars and made you stumble into the Vesuvit wars in the first place as he makes it so ONLY ToC can lose influence as they are the only ones not pushed during the wars. Go figure. The BGS in itself isn't broken, your "allies" are. Without their "all missions, all time" policy, we would have cleaned the borders like 1672 first. We didn't plan to attack Vesuvit with VGI, we could have even prevented it. We just decided to take it and run home with it.

War is crippling. That is why one shouldn't overextend Subsynk. I mentioned this X times in this thread. Overextension is dangerous, that is why people shouldn't start war during those periods with BGS groups.
The current war slips in Vesuvit are bad though. I liked the 2 day resting period and 2 days build up for the enemy war party. That way we could decide your wars and you could recover a little. That is why I reported it. It might be intended as this by design, but the current galactic state tick nearly 22h hours later makes it bugged in one or the other way.

The rest of the BGS is NOT.

Hope you can get yourself a group/added in game at some point (adopting multiple in-game factions you want does not count) then we could at least have a group/faction to go to war with and take revenge on in game.

The point of the ImpFed is to work with ingame realities, not create artificial ones. The only PMF we might ever want is our CAPITAL, once it has been secured and decided. Similar to Washington D.C. You won't see anything else.

Now if you would please stop sending our members random PM's on our forums that would be appreciated.

I send one message to Tolerance who is not "many random members" in over two months. You on the other hand cut off all ties for diplomacy one month ago. So do not expect the forbearing treatment Subsynk.
You also banned the diplomatic account after 1 PM to Tolerance. Go figure. So if you want to be condescending, how about first being honest.

 

[SuBSynk]

Also Vesuvit and other systems drown in Cutter or Python traffic. Not sure how you can say "with low or any". You clearly don't look at the traffic properly. Maybe I should post it here to highlight its existence for you. I check it regularly to guess your traffic and plans.

Also you might instead want to put your rogue ASP on a leash. He might have joined you recently, but that guy that does missions for ANYONE in your territory even during your wars and made you stumble into the Vesuvit wars in the first place as he makes it so ONLY ToC can lose influence as they are the only ones not pushed during the wars. Go figure. The BGS in itself isn't broken, your "allies" are. Without their "all missions, all time" policy, we would have cleaned the borders like 1672 first. We didn't plan to attack Vesuvit with VGI, we could have even prevented it. We just decided to take it and run home with it.

War is crippling. That is why one shouldn't overextend Subsynk. I mentioned this X times in this thread. Overextension is dangerous, that is why people shouldn't start war during those periods with BGS groups.
The current war slips in Vesuvit are bad though. I liked the 2 day resting period and 2 days build up for the enemy war party. That way we could decide your wars and you could recover a little. That is why I reported it. It might be intended as this by design, but the current galactic state tick nearly 22h hours later makes it bugged in one or the other way.

The rest of the BGS is NOT.



The point of the ImpFed is to work with ingame realities, not create artificial ones. The only PMF we might ever want is our CAPITAL, once it has been secured and decided. Similar to Washington D.C. You won't see anything else.



I send one message to Tolerance who is not "many random members" in over two months. You on the other hand cut off all ties for diplomacy one month ago. So do not expect the forbearing treatment Subsynk.
You also banned the diplomatic account after 1 PM to Tolerance. Go figure. So if you want to be condescending, how about first being honest.

We account for 90% of the traffic in the system that's how i know (and support know) that something is slightly dodgy considering traffic/influence. Support and i have an ongoing discussion going on regarding all this stuff

You have really mistaken what ToC is all about... we are based on Chaos and do not care what our members do as long as they are not breaking the ToS -or our internal members guide- we certainly never tell them what to do in game. If you think we would care about a ToC member in a ASP doing the "wrong" missions you really have no idea of what ToC is about. (sounds like some spying type meta-gamey nonsense to me either way)

You also seem to be confused as to what we are trying to achieve when it comes to the BGS. Spreading Chaos is about expanding our faction as far and wide as possible. We do not care about "overextension", "winning", "losing" starports or even systems, these concepts are not applicable to our RP in anyway (the concept of winning the BGS is silly either way). We love to have wars as they improve our bank balance and help to spread Chaos as per our RP. All that happens is we advance our story and expand over and over thus spreading Chaos. Supremacy wars for control of systems is not something we are trying to achieve, true chaos does not form a massive empire and control it, in fact quite the opposite...

The concept of a well organised, controlled expansion of the Chaos bubble is not something we want... we will expand wherever, randomly & as often as possible. Preferably we will never attempt to play the game in such a controlled and frankly boring manner as your many posts describe. Complete disorder and confusion is what we are about and it might help when dealing with us that you remember that.

We will continue to spread Chaos and leave you to enjoy the concepts of "winning", "losing" or "overextension" which you seem to consider so important in regard to the BGS. It really doesn't sound fun at all, but each to their own

Nothing will stop us & i expect Chaos to be found in many more systems in the area very soon \o/

--offtopic--

Its a shame you went all meta-game and i ended up being contacted by other group leaders that heard you in discord/TS3 asking for help vs ToC. I warned you i would ban you entirely if you could not behave yet you sent PM's through our forums to members you do not even know! I also told you the second you took things out-of-game and started bringing up X members and other toxic elements that ToC will completely ignore you just as we do with all out-of-game activities or personal attacks. I said then and will repeat here we will not engage with you on a meta-gaming level. Until you request for a actual group in game and stop trying to create cannon/RP for a faction you have nothing to do with we will not be able to take you seriously...its called god-modding and we want nothing to do with it.

 

[Gemai]

We account for 90% of the traffic in the system that's how i know (and support know) that something is slightly dodgy considering traffic/influence. Support and i have an ongoing discussion going on regarding all this stuff

You mean the support that told you to suck it up and that you don't really know our real numbers and those of free willed supporters? The support that acknowledges WE are not some 3-5 Pythons but a proper war front against you? The support that told you that the BGS is a multi-faceted game of chess which you should accept? Actually you just said you care 0 about the chess part. And yet you wonder why you lose and blame bugs and faulty BGS.

Contradiciton A+. You pass.

The support you keep taking out in discussions to "help us" get a PMF set up so you can attack it if we cooperate? If your ties with the support were as good as you always flaunt it would be borderline favoritism. Luckily nothing that supports that claim can be seen, so we don't take it as true.

Traffic is calculated "per jump" not "per person". So if I jump in and out to do missions, those Pythons are 50%+ mine. Believe it.

If I contact someone on your forum ONCE I do so for a reason. Not everyone that joined you during the war or before is on your side. And some can tell me what happens in the background. You know, getting more recruits than normal in war is odd, right? I only congratulated Tolerance on a point well made.

​

Its a shame you went all meta-game and i had to be contacted by other group leaders that heard you in discord asking for help vs ToC. I warned you i would ban you entirely if you could not behave yet you send PM's through our forums to members you do not know... Finally bringing SDC -and any other group you could manage to get involved- into the discussion is ridiculous and as i said then and will repeat here we will not engage with you on a meta-gaming level and until you request for a actual group in game and stop trying to create cannon/RP for a faction you have nothing to do with we will not be able to take you seriously...its called god-modding and we want nothing to do with it...sorry.

You mean RSM I take it, not SDC. SDC is a PvP group, they wouldn't help us. All they would do is kill you. We got your own Exiles for that. No one needs SDC in BGS wars. Also RSM was white peaced by you and left the coalition weeks ago. You even thought now you could put pressure on us and make us retreat. The joke is on you.
The fact that plan didn't work made you realize that maybe we didn't bluff and rode the community train in the war. We ARE your main enemy. We ARE beating your "Chaos". So stop blaming bugs while you "don't care" about the BGS.

We did not proclaim RP effects from a Meta-Level. We wouldn't acknowledge them in RP either. However, replacing a faction that was ingame for years with a PMF out of the blue that never was there to interact or RP with prior is real god-modding. Also making something invulnerable like a CG done by FD that one time with the lockdown. That is god-modding! You need to update your terms.

Asking accepted ingame factions - two of which that were - to help as they got old hostile ties with you is called diplomacy. And neither came to hurt you. So if neither the Frogs nor the Inquisition want to use your period of weakness to drive the point home, we just did it ourselves.

Nothing outside of the game will be used and it remains that way. And yes regarding RSM that included their history. We ignored it as ingame they are a Death Cult with questionary past. But they are NOT our enemy. You however were. Live with it Subsynk. You warred RSM first. We only picked them up.

I think your post said it all. If you lose the war it is by your own design, not faults in the BGS. And FD doesn't pull favoritism. At least for now we didn't see any. And we hope it stays that way.

 

[SuBSynk]

You mean the support that told you to suck it up and that you don't really know our real numbers and those of free willed supporters? The support that acknowledges WE are not some 3-5 Pythons but a proper war front against you? The support that told you that the BGS is a multi-faceted game of chess which you should accept? Actually you just said you care 0 about the chess part. And yet you wonder why you lose and blame bugs and faulty BGS.

Contradiciton A+. You pass.

The support you keep taking out in discussions to "help us" get a PMF set up so you can attack it if we cooperate? If your ties with the support were as good as you always flaunt it would be borderline favoritism. Luckily nothing that supports that claim can be seen, so we don't take it as true.

Traffic is calculated "per jump" not "per person". So if I jump in and out to do missions, those Pythons are 50%+ mine. Believe it.

If I contact someone on your forum ONCE I do so for a reason. Not everyone that joined you during the war or before is on your side. And some can tell me what happens in the background. You know, getting more recruits than normal in war is odd, right? I only congratulated Tolerance on a point well made.

http://s2.quickmeme.com/img/1d/1deff47cdbd0ec496efd897192c182a0a58c7d7d44eaf799cb46260d4b099240.jpg
​

You mean RSM I take it, not SDC. SDC is a PvP group, they wouldn't help us. All they would do is kill you. We got your own Exiles for that. No one needs SDC in BGS wars. Also RSM was white peaced by you and left the coalition weeks ago. You even thought now you could put pressure on us and make us retreat. The joke is on you.
The fact that plan didn't work made you realize that maybe we didn't bluff and rode the community train in the war. We ARE your main enemy. We ARE beating your "Chaos". So stop blaming bugs while you "don't care" about the BGS.

We did not proclaim RP effects from a Meta-Level. We wouldn't acknowledge them in RP either. However, replacing a faction that was ingame for years with a PMF out of the blue that never was there to interact or RP with prior is real god-modding. Also making something invulnerable like a CG done by FD that one time with the lockdown. That is god-modding! You need to update your terms.

Asking accepted ingame factions - two of which that were - to help as they got old hostile ties with you is called diplomacy. And neither came to hurt you. So if neither the Frogs nor the Inquisition want to use your period of weakness to drive the point home, we just did it ourselves.

Nothing outside of the game will be used and it remains that way. And yes regarding RSM that included their history. We ignored it as ingame they are a Death Cult with questionary past. But they are NOT our enemy. You however were. Live with it Subsynk.

I think your post said it all. If you lose the war it is by your own design, not faults in the BGS. And FD doesn't pull favoritism. At least for now we didn't see any. And we hope it stays that way.

You seem angry...I think we had best just leave this "discussion" here before you get the thread closed.

I never suggested i had some special friendship with support but ofc they do answer my tickets and we have an open ticket where we have ongoing discussions about the BGS concerning ToC's systems.

Either way support never said any of the things you suggested & if they did i would consider it a very unprofessional bordering on insulting answer to my ticket. Are you insinuating you have access to my email now?...i hope not.