Exploration Scans

[Sandro Sammarco]

Hello Commander Phoenix_Dfire!

Sorry but just to clarify, is the exploration mechanic going to be;-

1. Class 1 scan (The Honk) : this will review the system map to the range of the scanner and every planet in range, you'll see a thumbnail of planet (not a black sphere) but drilling down on the planet will show the gird view.
2. Class 2 scan : By flying close to the planet, the discovery scanner will show basic details of the world and the grid view will be replaced by the 2.2 visual representation of the body’s surface.
3. Class 3 scan : By flying close to the planet with the additional surface scanner module will give you all of the class 2 details, the mineral breakdown and more money when you trade it in?

not had enough coffee this morning.

Yes. I wish I had written it like this. I guess I haven't had enough coffee this morning either.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Hi Sandro, from another thread I created in the Suggestions forum...

Rather than removing things from Exploration, I prefer making suggestions which adds value and reward to the act of exploration.

I say that you can add to exploration by having a map of potential Points Of Interest superimposed onto the 3D terrain map of a detailed scanned planet.

Here's how I see that could work...

1) You jump into a system, and perform the usual discovery of system bodies with your Advanced Discovery Scanner.

2) You review discovered system bodies you are interested in exploring - this is by way of the 3D terrain map which contains nothing more than the terrain at this point in time. (For landable planets). This has an advantage for non-explorer types looking for interesting planets to canyon race on, for example. (A quality of life improvement for everyone, not just explorers).

3) In order to perform a Detailed Surface Scan, you will need to get close to the planet, and go into Orbital Cruise, and do a complete orbit of a body whilst doing the Detailed Scan.

4) After the scan is complete, the 3D terrain map now has superimposed upon it a 3D Points Of Interest Map. This PoI Map might list things such as ;

a) Surface features like Geysers to explore
b) Areas on the planet with extra amounts of materials to go look for and pick up or mine
c) Generalised marked out areas with potential Unknown Things to explore (e.g. this area appears to have anomalous transmissions/features)

And many more scenarios.

So that's the idea - a Detailed Surface Scan can only be done by doing one complete circuit of a body during Orbital Cruise.

I think this would improve the actual Exploration side of the game for a number of reasons...

1) There is at least some skill needed in order to maintain an Orbital Cruise around a body.

2) The word "Detailed" to me suggests that a scan should be "up close and personal" (i.e. via Orbital Cruise)

3) IMO this mechanic would be A) Engaging, and B) Rewarding.

Regards.

 

[Serpentis Ictis]

Hello Commander MyHammer!

So i guess one of the things we're asking for in this thread is: what kind of more fundametnal changes to exploration and sanning would folk be interested in seeing?

a reason.... mission based such as "mining syndicate seeking untouched pristine belts for mining, return scan data for reward"

etc... at the moment, its a way of gaining some credits and self actualisation against other career paths...

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

Hello Commander MyHammer!

So i guess one of the things we're asking for in this thread is: what kind of more fundametnal changes to exploration and sanning would folk be interested in seeing?

Greater depth in terms of discoveries for sure.

You guys have achieved something extraordinary with the Stellar Forge, but given the real universe's variety it obviously falls short. It means the vast majority of planets are one-a-dozen. Again, this is not criticism, I think it is more like a technological barrier.
For now this is why a mechanic is needed that makes filtering easy, in other words finding the truly interesting stuff.

The more details you'll add to the planets in the future, the more reason we will have to check out most of them. Truly potato shapes planetoids, comets, more volcanism, etc..

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
So please feel free to make suggestions for improvements (in this thread would be a good place to pop them) and to let us know what you think of the current implementation.

I think planets and moons should show up as a generic representation of their type after a discovery scan - not as black sphere place holders.
We get credits based on the type of object we scanned with the discovery scanner. Apparently the discovery scanner can identify what an object is, I see no reason why we shouldn't get that information.
If we don't get the information, why do we get paid for it?

Only getting a nice looking representation of the object in the object map after a detailed surface scan is OK for me.

Scanning systems with a detailed surface scanner is already very tedious and time consuming. Getting forced to do this without knowing if it actually is worth doing it would be a reason for me to think twice about doing detailed surface scans. For me it would make exploring less interesting.

My main issue with some of the "hiding" information ideas is, that they all don't add gameplay and just increase the time of the already very boring exploration mechanics.
It would make jump&honk exploration even more preferable as the time needed to scan a system is immense and without knowing if scanning the system is worth the time I suspect a lot of players will just give up.

A compromise would be to turn detailed surface scans into a two step process. A quick long range scan that reveals the visual representation of the object and a after that the standard close range scan like it is now (or maybe faster).
An explorer could jump into a system make a discovery scan and then use the detailed surface scanner to get detailed visuals from the objects.
In that case the discovery scanner could just reveal the location of the objects. The visual scan with the detailed scanner would have to be extremely long range (basically allowing getting visuals from every object in the system from the entry point - if the object is in the line of sight).

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

Hello Commander Phoenix_Dfire!




Yes. I wish I had written it like this. I guess I haven't had enough coffee this morning either.

Why? This will leave the majority of players disappointed.

Edit:
- Detailed surface view as in beta 1 was your original design idea
- There is a poll where the vast majority wants it back

 

[Mysturji]

Please keep the system view as it is now in Live 2.1
i.e. graphical representations of the planet type in system view, but no other info, including no close-up planetary map.

For instance: after a honk in beta 7, you can't even tell whether a planet has rings or not!
While explorers are typically not in a hurry, exploration is already slow enough, IMHO.

 

[Foxiol Eagle]

Hi Sandro, from another thread I created in the Suggestions forum...

Rather than removing things from Exploration, I prefer making suggestions which adds value and reward to the act of exploration.

I say that you can add to exploration by having a map of potential Points Of Interest superimposed onto the 3D terrain map of a detailed scanned planet.

Here's how I see that could work...

1) You jump into a system, and perform the usual discovery of system bodies with your Advanced Discovery Scanner.

2) You review discovered system bodies you are interested in exploring - this is by way of the 3D terrain map which contains nothing more than the terrain at this point in time. (For landable planets). This has an advantage for non-explorer types looking for interesting planets to canyon race on, for example. (A quality of life improvement for everyone, not just explorers).

3) In order to perform a Detailed Surface Scan, you will need to get close to the planet, and go into Orbital Cruise, and do a complete orbit of a body whilst doing the Detailed Scan.

4) After the scan is complete, the 3D terrain map now has superimposed upon it a 3D Points Of Interest Map. This PoI Map might list things such as ;

a) Surface features like Geysers to explore
b) Areas on the planet with extra amounts of materials to go look for and pick up or mine
c) Generalised marked out areas with potential Unknown Things to explore (e.g. this area appears to have anomalous transmissions/features)

And many more scenarios.

So that's the idea - a Detailed Surface Scan can only be done by doing one complete circuit of a body during Orbital Cruise.

I think this would improve the actual Exploration side of the game for a number of reasons...

1) There is at least some skill needed in order to maintain an Orbital Cruise around a body.

2) The word "Detailed" to me suggests that a scan should be "up close and personal" (i.e. via Orbital Cruise)

3) IMO this mechanic would be A) Engaging, and B) Rewarding.

Regards.

I like this as well. POI's and mostly geographical or natural features should also be revealed after this since you need to do a full surface scan over the entire planet. It doesn't take too much time depending the size of the planet and the reward will be huge.

Thing is that the 3D planetary map doesn't look like an actual map if you can't see things in it. (only known main bases) With POI's being shown and geographical features (places to visit and such), we all will be saving so much time and it will get more interesting to go and visit those places instead of just finding them randomly.

 

[racer1]

Edit - changed my mind - I'd like surface map info on honk. I am actually more likely to investigate a planet I normally wouldn't bother with if it has interesting surface details e.g. canyons

I definitely don't want just blanks spheres from a honk. I want at least thumb nails giving a good idea of what the planets is. Like we have in 2.1 now.

I have no problem if others want to have an option to turn these things off.

 

[Allitnil]

As long as the "listening" to the system map mechanic isn't discarded or made obsolete I don't mind.

For me that gives a reason to be involved in exploration. Without that bit it's just a matter of churning jump after jump. With the planetary sounds you really have to be present and focus on the result.

Just to point out that for many of us, the audio is not really viable due to hearing loss. Giving those with decent hearing a significant and totally arbitrary (*) advantage over those without it isn't exactly inclusive.

* - arbitrary since the sounds are obviously generated by the ship based on the scan data. If the discovery scan has revealed enough data to generate the audio then it can equally display the visuals. If it doesn't have the data to display the visuals then it also doesn't have the data to generate the sounds.

 

[MyHammer]

Hello Commander MyHammer!

So i guess one of the things we're asking for in this thread is: what kind of more fundametnal changes to exploration and sanning would folk be interested in seeing?

That's quite a huge topic! I am glad FD puts attention to it. I have to think this over before I can come up with solid wishes. But basically there is a) the mere scientific approach and b) the mission - related approach. More later

 

[Bomba Luigi]

Why not both?

Good opprtunity to introduce a combined ADS and DSS Scanner, using him means after honk black spheres and no detailed map but once scanned you get all the info and the credits of the DSS. For more money and more internals you can fit classic ADS and DSS where after honk you get the planet images on the system map and the detailed surface map (of course still have to get there and scan it for more info and money as it is now).

 

[CoatOSilver]

I think the main problem is the wasted time to till you can know if you will get an adequat return on your invested time, i.e. you fly 500k LS just to discover an unremarkable icy rock for 400cr.

This can be solved by extending the range of the Class 2 scan to the range of the (A)DS, you still have to aim.

This would result in:
Class 1 scan (Honk), do a gravimetic scan revealing orbital parameters of objects in range, but no additional info (basicly just like in beta now). This should not leak info via, sounds or otherwise also.
Class 2 scan: aim the ship at a known object upto the range of the (A)DS and get the basic details (name, surfacemap, settlements). In practice this means any object can be basic scanned from fuelscooping with an ADS.
Class 3 scan: needs a DDS and you have to fly near the object as is currently the case. It reaveals all the parameters.

It might be sensible to give stars (black holes, neutronstars) some class 3 parameters, to make it sensible/necessary to fly out to them. Else they could be done from the entry star fully.

 

[Ziljan]

Since there are a variety of opinions and 2 virtually unused scanners (BDS and IDS), I would highly suggest having multiple options and replace the 2 unused scanners:

All of these would have infinite range:

1) basic scanner: shows only black spheres and stars
2) intermediate scanner: shows full color system maps, but no zoomable planets before a direct scan
3) advanced scanner: shows full color map and zoomable planet surfaces

Oh course there should also be some incentive structure for using the basic and intermediate versions, for example: cost, weight, power usage, size, slot type used (utility vs internal).

Obsidian Ant made a video showing how each scanner level would work starting at t=4:31

[video=youtube_share;iGQafi6K7v0]https://youtu.be/iGQafi6K7v0?t=4m31s[/video]

 

[NSR2]

Quick suggestion.
Keep things as they are in 2.1
But let the system map / globe detailed surface thing be unlocked as an engineer blueprint.

That way we get to work for a better result../ use the engineers

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

Since there are a variety of opinions and 2 virtually unused scanners (BDS and IDS), I would highly suggest having multiple options and replace the 2 unused scanners:

All of these would have infinite range:

1) basic scanner: shows only black spheres and stars
2) intermediate scanner: shows full color system maps, but no zoomable planets before a direct scan
3) advanced scanner: shows full color map and zoomable planet surfaces


Obsidiant Ant made a video showing how each scanner level would work starting at t=4:31

https://youtu.be/iGQafi6K7v0?t=4m31s

This would be my vote as well. The DSS will be used as it is now, and possibly for major POI on planets in the future.

 

[xyphic]

Ideally, the 3D representation would appear once you've done the basic scan **or** if you buy the data for the system (and only if that system has been previously scanned and sold by a CMDR). Though I also have no real issues with showing the 3D map as it conveys little real information about what might be found where (and as was also pointed out, allows canyon racers to easily find targets without much tedious scouting work).

In the longer term, I would hope that exploration and discovery of points-of-interest becomes less random. I would like to see the ability to be able to perform detailed scans of bodies (with appropriately cool visual effects) with differing sensor suites allowing differing discoveries to be made. For example, scanning for potential sites with a particular material and returning a number of potential targets which you then have to go scout with your SRV. The class of suite might dictate the accuracy of the results (in terms of location and number of potential targets), and you might have to perform an orbit of the planet (perhaps maintaining an altitude window for skill purposes) for the scan to be truly effective. The same sort of mechanic might be used to scan asteroid fields, or to find other objects such as undocumented bases, crash sites, etc.

Also (and this horse has truly bolted already) the discovery of planetary bodies in virgin systems could involve much more skill. Honking the ADS to find all bodies feels like a shortcut. I think that exploration would be more interesting if the discovery scanner effectively pointed out regions based on density of material and you actually have to travel there to figure out what they are. Or that return a signature that you can learn to interpret.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

I also add;

1) You don't improve exploration by removing features from it that we've been used to for the past 2 years (e.g. grey blobs - yuck)

2) You improve exploration by adding to the exploration side of it, which is entirely different from discovery-of-bodies ... the discovery side should be left as-is.

Why? Because with 400 billion star systems in the galaxy, you want to be able to - as quickly and conveniently as possible - see potentially interesting bodies in order to decide whether to explore them or not.

3) Changes in how exploration in the game works should be iterative and small, and not big radical changes, as well as adding to the already-existing mechanics rather than removing things which we have been used to for the past 2 years.

Regards.

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

I also add;

1) You don't improve exploration by removing features from it that we've been used to for the past 2 years (e.g. grey blobs - yuck)

2) You improve exploration by adding to the exploration side of it, which is entirely different from discovery-of-bodies ... the discovery side should be left as-is.

Why? Because with 400 billion star systems in the galaxy, you want to be able to - as quickly and conveniently as possible - see potentially interesting bodies in order to decide whether to explore them or not.

3) Changes in how exploration in the game works should be iterative and small, and not big radical changes, as well as adding to the already-existing mechanics rather than removing things which we have been used to for the past 2 years.

Regards.

They have already said the grey blob will not be there. That is a bug.

 

[GaryII]

All of these would have infinite range:

1) basic scanner: shows only black spheres and stars
2) intermediate scanner: shows full color system maps, but no zoomable planets before a direct scan
3) advanced scanner: shows full color map and zoomable planet surfaces
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First 2 scanners will be next to useless as before anyway...
Only new players will use them until they get 1,5m for adv, that is not a big money anymore.

I think, new 3D planet could be displayed after detailed scan only..without detailed scan its static 2D as in 2.1

And I guess this is easy to implement, too.