Exploration Scans

[Genar-Hofoen]

Surface scan for surface map is no brainer - it is just logic step. "But I can't cherry pick locations" isn't really exploration, nor should be treated as one. I personally think people engaging in grinding trough systems are themselves only to blame and it should be used as qualifier for measuring how good or bad feature is.

Just my opinion, of course.

Vehemently disagree with your opinion

You say "cherry picking" like that's a bad thing - what's so bad about "cherry picking"? I prefer to call it by what it is - making the best use of your available playing time to play the game you want to play it, not how a minority of players want you to play it.

So if one player decides they want to surface scan every one of a 96-body system, they can do so and without going near the 3D surface map. However, if someone else wants to play Space Tourist - then that is equally valid game play made less odious by not having to surface scan every landable body in order to see its 3D surface map.

Again I ask - what's the point in spending the time programming that feature into the game, if you need to surface scan a body beforehand and could very well fly towards it for 4 or 5 seconds more and view the body directly? All that coolness made pointless just to satisfy some 'immershunz'.

What about my immershunz for example whereby the Advanced Discovery Scanner in the year 3302 doesn't have optical instrumentation? That's facetious I know but it's equally as nauseous as the point about 'immershunz' where it comes to 'surface map only available after a surface scan'

My understanding is that surface scans are more to do with revealing the constitution of a planet ("materials available?", "can we land?" "gravity?", "planet type?" , rather than literally being a 3D mapping instrument!

Regards

 

[szopin]

Some folk have suggested that they would prefer to have the surface of a body revealed in the planet map by the initial basic exploration scan, as that detail can inform them whether they wish to investigate the body further. This is a reasonable suggestion.

This, finding good canyons or craters is hard, and for explorers credit/XP you still need to fly there, why develop such cool feature and then remove it boggles my mind

 

[sensai25]

Hello Sandro. First thanks for sharing your thoughts on this.

I am a big explorer really fan of elite (805000ly traveled in +28k unique worlds).

I sincerely enjoy the Actual system. Changing it now is quite a non sense for me.

What I propose :

• Keep ADS showing the overall look of the planet type on system map. Close view is the 2.1 blue schematic sphere.
• Then DSS could give us info about the body and the new surface map bring into 2.2 beta.

And that's it. Exploration of already a full dedication activity. Very time consuming.
Do not complexify or slow too much the process of exploring.

Thanks for reading.

(PS : we still need our legacy historical data of exploration through a dump file per CMDR please).

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Presumably (would be nice to have confirmation) all the bubble systems that new players start with (already have the system map and details for) will automatically have all planets with the 3D surface map and won't require an additional basic (level 2) or detailed (level 3) scan to reveal. So, those players who want to find an interesting canyon to race in, can do so. If they want to find one no-one knows about then they will have to "explore".

Not all players who wish to search for cool terrains stay in the bubble though. Why should they? Going out of the bubble doesn't automatically make one an explorer, they could be a Space Tourist and whilst that's a form of exploration in itself it's just a different way of playing the game and is as equally valid as players who consider themselves 'true explorers'.

I disagree, it makes it something valuable that you have to work for, and this is "fine" because (see above) the bubble systems will come with it built-in and it's only the less travelled systems and the greater galaxy where you have to "explore" for it.

Again, the point being is that this should not just be for the 'true explorer', that it's limiting the value of the feature to a very small subset of players, cutting out those who would want to use this for their own, less 'true explorer' style of gameplay, just to satisfy 'immershunz'.

Sometimes - as I have learned the long and hard way throughout my >2 years on these forums and this game -gameplay really, really does trump realism.

This is a game, not a simulation (it has simulation aspects to it). Games should be fun, compelling and rewarding enough to come back to.

 

[ravstar52]

My 2 cents:

1. If anyone declares anything for "immurshun" reasons, it shouldn't count, unless their idea will actually make exploration easier/more fun/faster. If they are just adding more time sinks, their idea is trash, imo.
2. Exploration scanners being Utilities would be really nice.
3. Regenerating heatsinks would be nice. Right now the only way to get more of them is to hope for a bug.
4. Caves would be cool.
5. ObsidianAnt's idea for the Discovery scanners is a great one, +1 from me for that.
6. can we have a loading/progress bar when Detailed Surface Scanning? There was a concept a while ago where the loading bar was the "target information"'s [IE: where the "SCANNING" texts is] background, and it creaped across as the planet was scanned. That would be cool.
7. Currently the cheapest ship that deploys a fighter is the Keelback, however it has terrible jump range (~35ly fully modded). this isn't helped by the massive 20T wieght of the module. Is there a possibility there will be a lighter version? I'd take one with less fighters if it was more in line with the SRV bays' weighting (4G is 10T, 6G is 17T)

 

[Earth Ultimatum IV.]

Oh hell no. Useless tedium again.
There's nothing to find. The same copy-pasted blue/brown/beige balls over and over again. Just show what they're so I don't waste even more time.

 

[sensai25]

Hello Commander MyHammer!

So i guess one of the things we're asking for in this thread is: what kind of more fundametnal changes to exploration and sanning would folk be interested in seeing?

On this particular point :

DSS should bring a area of density for materials
DSS should bring us location of volcanism activities

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

For general scanning & exploration improvements, I think the Detailed Surface Scanner needs to have more of a niche.

I think as we get more landable planets the DSS should be more and more relevant. (planets with atmospheres, exploring cloud giants, eventually life)

At the moment you fly through space or over a planet, randomly you'll get a "USS/POI" popping up. I think this mechanic should be expanded to show persistant points of interest such as the coming ruins, crashed ships etc.

Basically the DSS should follow what your original concept showed:
http://i.imgur.com/MVB7jjf.gif

I would love the scanning process shown on that good becoming true.

 

[teedle]

Here's my idea to maybe add some fun, and compromise on differing opinions:
Honk: It shows planets, but the surface map is pixely/glitchy/slightly off color(or even very desaturated). The map could be reminiscent of like old astrophotography, but explained as computer guess work based on the planet's basic makeup.
DSS: You do the scan via mechanics (like the old concept?), but from within the planetary map. So if you want exact planetary details, you can do this remotely, but it takes a lil time and effort.
Normal Ship Scan: If you fly over and scan normally, you get the planetary map, but not the extra exploration data.

EDIT: I forgot to say why I think this is a compromise. A fuzzy, undetailed planet can give you both the intrigue of exploring the unknown and the basic idea of a planet so you can quickly decide how to proceed. Planetary map scan mechanics and stuff like that aren't as important as the idea of getting partial detail (many different artistic options) and then scanning remotely for full detail.

 

[droid327]

It makes the most sense, realistically and gameplay-wise, to have some basic information about a planet to inform whether or not you want to do a further surface scan. The kind of information we'd be able to glean about a planet from a distance with the honker should have enough data to identify the type of planet, which is the main thing you'd want to know when deciding whether or not to explore it further. Definitely, we'd be able to tell more than simply "there's something there".

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

The quick and easy fix for when 2.2 goes live would be to up the range of a basic planetary scan i.e double or triple the range.

I can imagine doing wholesale changes now would be impossible.

So for 2.3 maybe do changes like Ziljan and Obsidian Ant mentioned:

All Discovery Scanners have infinite range.
The BDS will become a utility instead using very little power and weighs only 0.5t and it will just show the black blobs and their position etc. It will not be good enough for the Mission critical updates, you will still need to scan the NAV beacon. This also makes the DBX less obsolete as it will be able to use a BDS and a DSS as well as having an AMFU so it can use a Neutron Star.

The IDS is a size 1 Internal compartment component as it needs to be bigger - More weight, more power then the BDS, but basically as 2.1

The ADS is a size 2 Internal compartment component again more weight and power hungry then the IDS but have it show everything as Beta 6.

It will give you choices, do I sacrifice LY range for convenience. Some will use the BDS instead as it frees up cargo space/internal compartments.

The ASPX will still be the main ship for exploration as it has more compartments and fits everything.
The DBX may have a slight jump range advantage if it uses a BDS, but it has to compromise to do that, plus it has poorer fuel scooping then the ASPX, but can now be a proper explorer with compromises.
The Annaconda, well that ship doesn't have to worry about anything with the changes.

The DSS doesn't change, but in the future hopefully it can pinpoint major POI's on the surface.

 

[nrage]

Not all players who wish to search for cool terrains stay in the bubble though. Why should they? Going out of the bubble doesn't automatically make one an explorer, they could be a Space Tourist and whilst that's a form of exploration in itself it's just a different way of playing the game and is as equally valid as players who consider themselves 'true explorers'.

Anyone who leaves the bubble is "exploring" whatever they chose to call themselves. Therefore they will experience "exploration" game-play, including needing to scan a planet to see it's surface.

Again, the point being is that this should not just be for the 'true explorer', that it's limiting the value of the feature to a very small subset of players, cutting out those who would want to use this for their own, less 'true explorer' style of gameplay, just to satisfy 'immershunz'.

You've got this backwards. The detailed surface map (feature) is for everyone, it's only "explorers" (people who leave the bubble) who don't immediately have it and have to scan for it.

Sometimes - as I have learned the long and hard way throughout my >2 years on these forums and this game -gameplay really, really does trump realism.

This is a game, not a simulation (it has simulation aspects to it). Games should be fun, compelling and rewarding enough to come back to.

I am firmly in the gameplay over realism/immersion camp - I voted for no delay on ship transfers (for example). But, this is gameplay we're talking about. Having the detailed map appear as a result of a player action is the very definition of "gameplay" as opposed to it being an incremental improvement or QOL update.

p.s. I edited my original reply and added a lot of additional content which might be interesting to you.

 

[Ravenov]

Keep the current (2.1) system as is, but make the detailed surface map appear at a greater distance than the full surface scan.

That way you get a bit of both worlds, you could see the surface features in the planetary map from say 500ls (arbitrary figure) after a short preliminary scan (heck it could be passive, just being within the distance) so you could then make the decision of whether to go in for a close look, which would give the detailed surface scan with all the materials and orbit info we have already.

 

[fuub]

I really like the blank planets after using the adv scanner, basically giving out the information the planets position without any more detail.

It introduces engaging exploration gameplay inside a system, instead of click on button and you already made all the gameplay there is.

Makes the player have to think on what type of planets he will discover based on the star chemistry and temperature, is it worth to go EXPLORE the planets with a basic scan in this type of environment?

But this change to be worth and engaging should only happen if the rewards to discover each type of planet are massively increased, for example if a player is the first to discover an earthlike (or other valuable planets) this way, it should be a really big thing, and the reward should be millions! The feeling of exploring and discovering an earthlike (or other valuable planets) by following star characteristics and environment, and the accomplishment of it would truly engage exploring gameplay imo.

It would make the hunt for valuable planets actually involve exploration, instead of rushing through the most amount of systems the fast you can and just a click on a button.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Dear Sandro,

What you propose is really no different to what we have at the moment (2.1 does not have details surface maps - so we are getting something additional anyway.) The Basic, intermediate and advanced scanners being exactly what they are now - no problem. The DSS discovering what minerals are on the surface (over against a basic surface scan) is also a status quo.

I think the next stage would be better ways for the DSS to highlight areas of natural interest, as others have mentioned. I.e. Areas shown on the map that mark the greatest possibility of coming across the rarest materials. At the moment it is a case of Mark 1 Eyeball, which actually, I quite like. Provided the topology is consistent, I would not change a thing otherwise.

Thanks for clarifying Sandro. I think you guys are getting it right.

 

[Cosmo]

For reference: currently in the beta, when entering a new system, you can use the basic discovery scanner to discover stellar bodies (up to the range of the scanner).

Discovered bodies will show in the system map as graphical representations, but in the planet map they will show as grid spheres.

You can perform a basic surface scan to learn details about the body and replace the grid sphere with a visual representation of the body’s surface.

Some folk have suggested that they would prefer to have the surface of a body revealed in the planet map by the initial basic exploration scan, as that detail can inform them whether they wish to investigate the body further. This is a reasonable suggestion.

Other folk have suggested that bodies discovered by a basic scan should remain as blank spheres in the system map until they have received the attention of a detailed surface scan, as the mystery would entice further investigation. This is also a reasonable suggestion.

A basic scan should reveal the planet map. Also, I recommend an expensive scanner which reveals all planet maps in a system with a single scan. Because otherwise it would take a long time.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

Anyone who leaves the bubble is "exploring" whatever they chose to call themselves. Therefore they will experience "exploration" game-play, including needing to scan a planet to see it's surface.


You've got this backwards. The detailed surface map (feature) is for everyone, it's only "explorers" (people who leave the bubble) who don't immediately have it and have to scan for it.

You repeated in your reply what I stated - Space Tourism is a form of exploring So we agree on that point.

I am firmly in the gameplay over realism/immersion camp - I voted for no delay on ship transfers (for example). But, this is gameplay we're talking about. Having the detailed map appear as a result of a player action is the very definition of "gameplay" as opposed to it being an incremental improvement or QOL update.

p.s. I edited my original reply and added a lot of additional content which might be interesting to you.

However the 3D surface map was originally touted as a general QoL improvement in the 2.2 reveal livestream(s) - there was no mention of it'd be hidden behind a surface scanner time-wall, because effectively that's all it is. It's pointless because all you need to do it fly close to the planet in order to see its surface - a few seconds longer than the scanning distance.

It's just pointless. It would be less pointless if the surface scan distance was lengthened by an order of magnitude. Alternatively, just make it available after a Space Honk.

 

[PFFlyer003]

As long as the ADS shows everything I'll be happy

 

[-VR- Max Factor]

You repeated in your reply what I stated - Space Tourism is a form of exploring So we agree on that point.







However the 3D surface map was originally touted as a general QoL improvement in the 2.2 reveal livestream(s) - there was no mention of it'd be hidden behind a surface scanner time-wall, because effectively that's all it is. It's pointless because all you need to do it fly close to the planet in order to see its surface - a few seconds longer than the scanning distance.

It's just pointless. It would be less pointless if the surface scan distance was lengthened by an order of magnitude. Alternatively, just make it available after a Space Honk.

They never mentioned that it wasn't either. Whether it is or isn't it is still a nice feature. I agree with you on the scan distance though for a quick fix that should hopefully please most people.

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Oh hell no. Useless tedium again.
There's nothing to find. The same copy-pasted blue/brown/beige balls over and over again. Just show what they're so I don't waste even more time.

Google Space Engine. That's your answer.

 

[GoTo]

I would suggest keeping the system as it is but add more functionality to the detailed discovery sensor. The detailed sensor could reveal the general location of POIs. Not the specific location, though, to keep it interesting. Maybe the scan could give us an area in which we can search for things. The POIs could be anything and could be build upon in the future. For starters, the detailed scan could reveal:

• Regions of tectonic activity
• Geysers, volcanos
• Settlements
• Current POIs
• Anomalies
• Material deposits (this would improve the mining and material collection gameplay, e.g. for engineers)
• Everytime you guys add something to planet surfaces, you could include it as a signal for the detailed scan.

Hope this helps! Best of luck guys and keep up the good work