Exploration Scans

[nrage]

However the 3D surface map was originally touted as a general QoL improvement in the 2.2 reveal livestream(s) - there was no mention of it'd be hidden behind a surface scanner time-wall, because effectively that's all it is.

Sure, but that's what happens in beta, stuff changes.

It's pointless because all you need to do it fly close to the planet in order to see its surface - a few seconds longer than the scanning distance.

Yes.. except now you can also see the surface later on when you've flown away, or weeks later when you're looking back at previously scanned planets. It's not really "all about" the first seconds during/after the scan itself as you seem to be implying.

It's just pointless. It would be less pointless if the surface scan distance was lengthened by an order of magnitude. Alternatively, just make it available after a Space Honk.

I disagree. The "point" of a surface scan is currently to get the planet's vital statistics, and in 2.2 it will also be to get the surface map.. which you get to keep and look at again, whenever you feel like it .. you know, to find those canyons you love to race in.

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You repeated in your reply what I stated - Space Tourism is a form of exploring So we agree on that point.

I was making a wider point, but it's not really that important.

 

[Pantro77]

As is, please. Thank you for asking and for the improvements and new features.

 

[CMDR Kit Rakish]

Just a simple QoL change I'd request: icons for Star/Planet/Asteroid in the lefthand Navigation panel list. So when we're zipping around scanning, we can skip over the asteroids.

 

[Eera]

Planetary scan must display where on the planets materials are. As long as we have RNGineer, every tools who can help by reducing GRIND activity, are the welcome !

 

[nrage]

I'd rather the Disco Scanners keep their normal functionality instead of having unrecognizable black blobs

No one is suggesting this, this was a bug!

 

[AJ_Impy]

It is entirely possible to have details visible to the naked eye such as ring systems which don't show up on the system map under the blank sphere option. Plus, it's much less visually appealing.

 

[MartinG]

I would promote your idea in the commander's log thread if I were you, since the mechanism of dumping events to the log is already established and would not involve developing something new. You might get more traction that way, and it might get done sooner.

It was proposed early in that thread, but there was concern about the commander’s log getting big quickly if the dump were to be generated every time a system map was opened. As for dump-on-honk, I already explained (in the proposal, and in the commander’s log thread) why I’m not a fan of such solution: I see no good reason why I should spend a lot of time in the game flying around honking hundreds of already explored systems just so I can access their data outside of the game.

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Just a simple QoL change I'd request: icons for Star/Planet/Asteroid in the lefthand Navigation panel list. So when we're zipping around scanning, we can skip over the asteroids.

You can use filters to hide them.

 

[hiciacit]

Just to chip in with what I'd prefer, although it has been suggested lots already:

• (A)DS reveals planets, type and surface.
• Planetary scan reveals useful information across the surface: POIs, material distribution, anomalies, etc. Depending on the type of scanner (DDS or not) more info is revealed and scans are more valuable.

 

[EightRoundsRapid]

Like elsewhere, I vote for what was originally promised, and implemented in the majority of the betas: having the detailed (zoomed-in) surface map available after the D-scanner ping, without requiring a detailed scan.

To me, that worked better in testing, as I started to pay attention to the numerous ice moons more. If I'll have to detail-scan them again to check out their surfaces, I won't - too much game time for too little reward. Most of them are uninteresting and worth a pittance of credits, after all.

This. Please don't lock away the excellent detail in the surfaces behind the mechanic of travelling to the object and scanning it. I believe it is well within reasonable levels of immersion and lore that the discovery scanner should be able to reveal the surface of planetary bodies in range of the type of scanner used.

Additional features for Exploration:

I would love to be able to place bookmarks on planetary surfaces in order to return to a POI, geological feature or location whenever I like.

Also missions to find salvage sites/wreckage would be great as well as an overhaul of credit rewards and other possible sources of income for Explorers.

Thank you and the team for all your work on 2.2

 

[mossfoot]

How about a compromise: System scan gives a blurry representation of the planet surface, sort of what a telescope would, and a surface scan gives you all the juicy details. That way you can sort of say, hm.. that looks promising, ill go have a look, then scan it to get more details.

Oooh, interesting. Low res enough that you can have a good guess as to what's there, but never be sure until you arrive? Would allow for people over time to learn to ignore snowballs, recognize the possibility of deep canyons and high mountains despite the resolution, etc... That would certainly go hand in hand with the spirit of exploration, working off limited data to make determinations as to where to go next.

 

[NeilF]

While "immersion" tells me to suggest only show them when the surface has been finally scanned, my practical head says show them all the moment you do a discovery scanner. When I go into a new system, I'd like to know if there are some worlds worth investigating. At the moment, there's little to go on or use, other than visuals.

So, I think show them all as soon as the discovery scanner is fired off.



Of course when we get exploration probes to assign to shoot off to designated targets? Let's reconsider

How about a compromise: System scan gives a blurry representation of the planet surface, sort of what a telescope would, and a surface scan gives you all the juicy details. That way you can sort of say, hm.. that looks promising, ill go have a look, then scan it to get more details.

Something like this might be a good approach, but then again would it provide enough detail to make that call, do I travel all the way our there to look at that one?

 

[Eent Tredison]

It makes perfect sense to me for discovery scanners to reveal all VISUAL information about planets and for the surface scanner to reveal information about surface materials, since you DO search for materials on the surface only right now. I'm begging Frontier to consider the convenience of the players and consider the gameplay impact above literally anything else.

 

[vsTerminus]

I've honestly been trying to stay out of this, but apparently I suck at it.

TL;DR:

Yes, the Surface Scanner needs a purpose.

No, that purpose should not be to reveal something that, today, is instant.

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New features should either add new gameplay mechanics or improve existing ones. They should not be taking an existing mechanic and making it slower, especially when one of the primary complaints against exploration is how tedious it is.

If you want to give the surface scanner a purpose, find something for it to do besides give you some bonus credits. Have it reveal things on the surface, or even increase resources per node or something. Making planets show up as sphere until scanned will only serve to make exploration more tedious for the same reward.

Yes - There will be people who would legitimately enjoy slowing down the pace of exploration and requiring each individual planet to be scanned before it could be revealed, so if you insist on listening to them for whatever reason please try to balance it out so the feature isn't just a straight downgrade for everyone else. Increase credit payout dramatically, increase scanner range, etc.

Right now the primary motivation to explore is to find interesting things. If it's too much work to figure out what *might* be promising, you stand to ruin the best thing about exploration, because the reward will no longer justify the effort (and let's be honest, it barely does that today. Don't make it worse.)

 

[MartinG]

This may not be the most popular opinion on the forums, but for me the best part of exploration was BEFORE i actually got the advanced discovery scanner.
Finding planets by looking for moving for moving dots on the background was extremely rewarding and a bit skill based.

I did try that for some time, too, and it would have been a lot of fun if not for that ‘space dust’ effect in supercruise. Trying to spot a moving dot between a constant barrage of moving lines (which don’t even represent anything physical) was far more frustration than fun to me.

Now, if it were discovery scanners themselves that would detect objects based on their parallax as we’d fly around… But I think there is effectively zero chance of exploration being overhauled that much, ever. [sad]

 

[mossfoot]

Originally Posted by Dipso (Source)
How about a compromise: System scan gives a blurry representation of the planet surface, sort of what a telescope would, and a surface scan gives you all the juicy details. That way you can sort of say, hm.. that looks promising, ill go have a look, then scan it to get more details.

Something like this might be a good approach, but then again would it provide enough detail to make that call, do I travel all the way our there to look at that one?

I think the correct answer here would be "most of the time." I'm sure they could make such a blur so that you can usually make certain determinations about it, but there's no way to make it an absolute without upping the resolution to the point where the blur would be pointless.

If you can tell 9 times out of 10, I'd say that's a good ratio, and that leftover 1 you have to decide if your curiosity is that strong or not.

 

[Axion Jaxon]

I usually stay out of things like this but I had to say something.

1.) Move the BDS,IDS and ADS out of the modules, either put them in core or utilities or both. Give people options.

2.) Change the scanners give the all infinite distance. But each has it's own levels, honk speed is still the same.

*BDS: See all planets as black spheres till scanned directly or hitting a nav beacon. Direct stellar objects scanning speed 30 seconds(same as current). Default and cheap.
*IDS: Get 2.1 Map + Faster Scanning (25 seconds) + 20% increased Scanning distance over basic. Double current Price
*ADS: See all planets and surface map + 35% increase to scanning distance + Fastest Scan (20 seconds). 4 times current price.

3.) Give the Detailed scanner more information.

*Gives the surface map to BDS and IDS.
*Adding a probability scale for possible Terra-formable planets in a system map,
*Points of interests(Wrecks and Strange Anomalies)
*The ability Tag locations when zoomed in on the system map.

 

[Alkibiades]

I'm with the ads reveals bodies only group. if you want to have a surface map you need a surface scanner, so grid only after the ads honk. and a nav beacon scan should NOT give you a surface map either. that should be an extra thing for ppl who want to do stuff other than just land at an outpost to sell smuggled goods. you dont need a detailed surface map for that.


tldr

ads honk -> all bodies and grid spheres

nav beacon scan -> all bodies and grid spheres

dss -> shiny surface map and list of materials

 

[NeilF]

I've honestly been trying to stay out of this, but apparently I suck at it.

TL;DR:

Yes, the Surface Scanner needs a purpose.

No, that purpose should not be to reveal something that, today, is instant.

-----------------

New features should either add new gameplay mechanics or improve existing ones. They should not be taking an existing mechanic and making it slower, especially when one of the primary complaints against exploration is how tedious it is.

If you want to give the surface scanner a purpose, find something for it to do besides give you some bonus credits. Have it reveal things on the surface, or even increase resources per node or something. Making planets show up as sphere until scanned will only serve to make exploration more tedious for the same reward.

Yes - There will be people who would legitimately enjoy slowing down the pace of exploration and requiring each individual planet to be scanned before it could be revealed, so if you insist on listening to them for whatever reason please try to balance it out so the feature isn't just a straight downgrade for everyone else. Increase credit payout dramatically, increase scanner range, etc.

Right now the primary motivation to explore is to find interesting things. If it's too much work to figure out what *might* be promising, you stand to ruin the best thing about exploration, because the reward will no longer justify the effort (and let's be honest, it barely does that today. Don't make it worse.)

You want a purpose for the surface scanner? Here you go, nice procedural distribution maps for surface and rings - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=258294&page=8&p=4007154&viewfull=1#post4007154

Add in some rare stateful resource hot spots into the mix, that diminish to nothing (gone forever) as mined, and then mining and exploration get a serious boost!

Spoiler

 

[Elan]

Hello Commanders!

There have been a number of threads and posts about the status of exploration scanning in the beta, including the detailed surface scanner module. This post is just to let folk know our thinking - I'm posting it here for maximum visibility.

For reference: currently in the beta, when entering a new system, you can use the basic discovery scanner to discover stellar bodies (up to the range of the scanner).

Discovered bodies will show in the system map as graphical representations, but in the planet map they will show as grid spheres.

You can perform a basic surface scan to learn details about the body and replace the grid sphere with a visual representation of the body’s surface.

THIS is a terrible idea! Don't do it. Without the visual representation of a planets composition I would never scan another planet! Scanning 100's of "mysterious" planets to only find rocky / icy? No thanks! Exploring is already enough of a time sink without additional time wasted scanning worthless planets too!

 

[NeilF]

I'm with the ads reveals bodies only group. if you want to have a surface map you need a surface scanner, so grid only after the ads honk. and a nav beacon scan should NOT give you a surface map either. that should be an extra thing for ppl who want to do stuff other than just land at an outpost to sell smuggled goods. you dont need a detailed surface map for that.


tldr

ads honk -> all bodies and grid spheres

nav beacon scan -> all bodies and grid spheres

dss -> shiny surface map and list of materials

<0.0001% of systems have them!