Exploration Scans

[V'larr]

I don't understand what I'm being asked to express a preference on here.

Under 2.1 I can enter a system, honk my ADS, and then look in the system map and be able to take a pretty good guess at what planets are worth investigating. Is this going to change?

This has been my question all along, and I'm still not really sure.

So long as the process of sniffing out terraformables or life-bearing planets within the system view isn't suddenly getting a black-sphere-patterned veil tossed over it, I'm willing to go any direction with the 2.2 exploration changes.

 

[Akarana]

Since there are a variety of opinions and 2 virtually unused scanners (BDS and IDS), I would highly suggest having multiple options and replace the 2 unused scanners:

All of these would have infinite range:

1) basic scanner: shows only black spheres and stars
2) intermediate scanner: shows full color system maps, but no zoomable planets before a direct scan
3) advanced scanner: shows full color map and zoomable planet surfaces

Oh course there should also be some incentive structure for using the basic and intermediate versions, for example: cost, weight, power usage, size, slot type used (utility vs internal).

Obsidiant Ant made a video showing how each scanner level would work starting at t=4:31

https://youtu.be/iGQafi6K7v0?t=4m31s

I really like the idea of replacing the existing scanners with these three options. It gives everyone whatever their preferred choice is. Those who just need the basic functionality keep the BDS, the new IDS provides basic information with the option to explore individual bodies if you wish and the new ADS provides the planetary maps, but you'd still need to go in close to get a detailed surface scan. As an explorer, I would love a new ADS which worked like this. It would make finding interesting places to explore much easier and mean I could spend much more time actually down on the planets. Anything which enhances the gameplay for exploration is a big benefit in my view.

Perhaps the surface maps could rotate on the system map (as has been seen in some beta videos) to indicate you have already performed a detailed surface scan on that body?

 

[Arithon]

I would not want to remove the existing scan funcitonality - it would put still more players off exploration. If the "hardcore" few want to play ironman explorer, use a medium or basic scanner.

Exploration needs more tools, to find things on planets AND interract with them (minus the pew-pew).

I posted this elsewhere a few days ago.

Surface mapping

If you fly over a planet surface with a detailed surface scanner in "cartography" mode, it will produce a heat-map of minerals and mark POIs.
This map will persist until you leave the surface (end of instance).
Lat / long positions can be bookmarked. Bookmarks can be shared with CMDRs in your instance or friends list.


Surface exploration improvements
SRV's should come with a sampler drill OR a repair arm.

• The sampler SRV could break outcrops/scoop minerals, but also drill [core sampes] to discover gas and oil deposits. This info could also be sold - being more valuable.
• The repair SRV could repair a ship that is on the surface (not just your own), both hull and power plant. It would need a supply of AR ammo from the mothership. This would create a new META (repair rats).

A drone bay could be added.

• This could carry up to three drones.
• These can be deployed in super-cruise to carry out detailed scans autonomously.
• They would travel no faster than the mother ship.
• They can only be reacquired in normal space, so you'd need to drop out of super-cruise to collect them and their data once they've returned to the mothership.
• They cannot be directed. - they simply head for the nearest un-scanned body, before moving on and return when no more are left in the system.
• If destroyed or worn out - they can be rebuilt or repaired in the drone bay using synthesis materials - but if destroyed, you lose their data.

 

[Mengy]

Suggested Change:

Change the Detailed Surface Scanner (DSS) such that it's required distance to a scan a planet increases, based on how far the CMDR ship is from the nearest star. The idea is that the star will produce a radiation/noise field that would interfere with the DSS when your ship is near the star. So imagine within 300 Light Seconds of a star, the DSS scan range behaves exactly as it does currently. But as we increase our distance from a star from 300 Light Seconds out to say 1,000 Light Seconds, it's scanning range scales up.

So flying a bit away from a star, the DSS scanning range would increase maybe 8X to 10X for planet sized bodies, and 3X to 5X for moon sized bodies.

This would vastly reduce the super cruise criss-crossing of a system to complete the Class 3 scans, allowing those scans to be completed from a greater distance in many situations.

Result:
The Class 1 and 2 scan process would be unchanged. The "Honk" would still work the same. The basic (non-DSS) Class 2 scan would still require the current flying close to the planet to complete.

Only the Class 3 scan (using the DSS) would allow the longer ranged scans to complete from a farther distance *if* we move our ship clear of nearby stellar radiation. Doing a Class 3 scan on planets very near a sun would see little to no time savings. But those very far out planets would show a very nice time savings, once the ship is clear of stellar radiation.

The time savings from the longer range scan capability would offer an added bonus to carrying the DSS.

Icing on the Cake Suggestions:
- The distance you'd need to travel from each star to get clear of it's radiation field would vary with each star type.

- Change both the basic (Class 2) and detailed scanner (Class 3) from being able to complete a scan *through* another body. I seem to recall completing a number of scans on planets that were behind a star I was fuel scooping at, with clearly no way the DSS could "see" those planets through the star.

- Maybe the DSS scan "wait time" will also decrease a bit, as the scan distance increases?

- Expanding on the main suggestion above: Suppose I'm far enough from a star that the DSS range is increased to it's maximum. Now I target a distant planet to complete a Class 3 DSS scan, but that planet is visually quite near "in-line" with the star... Now the increased DSS range would drop back toward it's minimum due to the star's radiation glare.

Exactly like when we avoid taking a photo with the sun or a bright light directly in the background.

So the DSS gets it's range boost when both A) *physically* away from the star radiation field, and B) *visually* clear of the star radiation field.

I hope that's clearly enough written. Thanks for the post on this, and consideration of ideas!

OKAY, this is another excellent idea. One of my biggest gripes with surface scanning is that it’s a huge time sink where you simply sit there waiting for the wheel to finish spinning. Part of that time sink is due to having to fly up into (and out of) planetary gravity wells. Exploration could really do with a lessening of the time sink gameplay, and this suggestion above would greatly help in that!

Another way to achieve similar results would be to add an engineer blueprint to the game which increase DSS ranges and/or scan times.

 

[Eloy]

There is an answer and you just posted it.
This is a game. In a game when there's a conflict between realism and gameplay, gameplay wins.

.
That argument is a bit to easy else we would be back to Space Invaders.

- - - - - Additional Content Posted / Auto Merge - - - - -

Basic DS: Show objects blacked out - Scan each one reveals name and image, detailed scanning also reveals surface in surface map.
Intermediate DS: Show objects with images (not blacked out) - Scan reveals name planet and detailed scan also reveals surface map.
Advanced DS: Scan reveals everything except name and details currently unlocked via DSS.

For this and as it is now: Noone will ever buy anything but the ADS (only masochistic nerds or absolute beginner with not enough credits(?))

 

[Kerrash]

My preference would be:

• Class 1. [Honk] gives system map 'thumbnails' based on range (basic/intermediate/advanced) (1.0-2.1)
• Class 2. [Target and get close] gives you the surface map and basic details (2.2 beta 1-6)
• Class 3. [Detailed surface scanner] gives you more detail, composition/material

Ideally with a view to extend the ability of class 3 or add class 4 level scans in the future to give you more rewards for exploration:

• Atmosphere probe limpets (New module?)
• Identify areas of interest (POI locations?)
• Ring resource abundance locations (Find great mining spots)
• Orbital reconnaissance (photos for cash?)

Ultimately I want interesting reasons to visit each type of planet rather than to have their type hidden behind a time sink of travelling to them.

 

[Doc Slow]

Following the debate with mixed emotions, as my last extended run out of the bubble has been quite a while ago.

I would be happy with any solution most commanders can live with, even the most grindy and masochist approaches - IF there was some real mystery, unexpected, science or groundbreaking discoveries to be found out there.

As long as there isn't, the only real reward you get is enjoying the beauty, so please keep it simple and give us some time enjoying these images and sounds. There is more than enough of a grind in every other aspect of the game. Don't bring this into exploration.

 

[Davadin]

My 2c, (which I'm sure many would disagree)

Hello Commanders!
Some folk have suggested that they would prefer to have the surface of a body revealed in the planet map by the initial basic exploration scan, as that detail can inform them whether they wish to investigate the body further. This is a reasonable suggestion.

It's not. They can already see if it's a metal planet or an ice planet from the system map. That should be enough info. If they like to know the percentage of Nickel could be mined from a certain planet, or they like to see the surface in the planet map, they should come and use their basic surface scanner (no module required) to check it.

Other folk have suggested that bodies discovered by a basic scan should remain as blank spheres in the system map until they have received the attention of a detailed surface scan, as the mystery would entice further investigation. This is also a reasonable suggestion.

Neither is this. A basic scan remains as blank spheres in system map? Why? This is less than what we have right now. For what reason this is taken away? "Muh immersion"? It's the 33rd century. Deal with it.

And yet other folk think the current system is good to go and this is also clearly reasonable.

Exactly. A bonus would be the actual surface in the planet map once a planet has been scanned with a detailed surface scanner.

 

[platypusfriend]

1. I'm an explorer. There isn't much incentive to go out and detail scan those planets, honestly. Especially the ice bodies.
2. Keep it so you have to go out and detail scan them, raise the monetary reward, and then make the detailed topographical map appear for every player as soon as they do an exploration scan from then on.

 

[TankMaster]

1. I'm an explorer. There isn't much incentive to go out and detail scan those planets, honestly. Especially the ice bodies.
2. Keep it so you have to go out and detail scan them, raise the monetary reward, and then make the detailed topographical map appear for every player as soon as they do an exploration scan from then on.

Forcing players to do anything isn't good gameplay mechanic IMHO, the gameplay mechanics should provide a desire to use those mechanics, force the player to do anything and it soon becomes something the player doesn't want to do.

 

[pingingpong]

I like the new exploration involving the surface scanner. I feel it's a let down not knowing anything about the planet that's been detected with the advanced scanner. Some info or rough images should be presented for just a advanced scan just to allow one to know if they want to continue on and follow up with the surface scanner.

ObsidianAnt has some ideas about exploration that really interested me but I can already imagine everyone's heard them already

 

[platypusfriend]

Forcing players to do anything isn't good gameplay mechanic IMHO, the gameplay mechanics should provide a desire to use those mechanics, force the player to do anything and it soon becomes something the player doesn't want to do.

That's why the monetary reward would be increased. Maybe it could scale with the distance from the star?

 

[Leper Messiah]

I haven't read the entire thread but what has made me turn off from the game was the laboriously long scan times for planets and just having that sound loop playing for what seemed like insanity inducing amount of time (wibble). Could the scan times be speeded up a tad or could we get some sort of "bar" that fills up so we can visually see how long a scan will take?

Regarding the issue of what is shown when what scan is done, I think an option to choose would be best. Shoe horning all players down one route is never a good thing in my book and options will allow as many people as possible to be as happy as possible (which is a good thing yes?!). But I personally want the initial scan to reveal the surface details, as waiting for a planetary scan is a tad daft seeing as we'd be able to fly down to see the planet anyways.

 

[Genar-Hofoen]

I prefer the discovery scanners just discovering stellar bodies and the surface scanners actually revealing a planets surface - in both, the system map and when zoomed in.

It would be nice, though, if we could still zoom into a planet that hasn't been surface scanned, yet, and still see the grid globe, perhaps with positions of known installations and stations (since such information would be publicly available).

So basically like this:

https://i.imgur.com/zUfWR1E.png

And basically I'm out if it ever goes to that. It's not only horrible, it's extremely .

 

[MartinG]

You're right. So tell me, would you imagine on average that players who aren't sufficiently invested in the game as to even look at the official forums would be more or less likely to be in favour of massive timesinks being added to exploration gameplay?

No timesink is being added to the main game. What happened is that a timesink was removed and then added back in the beta. Some beta players feel cheated.

Under 2.1 I can enter a system, honk my ADS, and then look in the system map and be able to take a pretty good guess at what planets are worth investigating. Is this going to change?

No.

Would anyone consider Player Launched Probes? I have a thread in 2.2 beta area, and posted a link earlier in this thread.

I like the idea, but I think designing and implementing them in such a way as to offer interesting gameplay mechanics would require a fairly large effort, and thus be unlikely to be implemented any time soon. I prefer suggestions that look like they might have a chance to be implemented before Season 5

 

[Shanaeri]

I really don't see the issue in having it as it was pre 2.2 beta 5. But here are some pros and cons as I see it.
Pro's
Gives the player a choice as to how they want to play
Respects the players time, by not introducing additional time sinks
Gives racers, canyon runners and sight seeers to find nice places easily
Doesn't give the player anything they couldn't do with a telescope today
Likely to reduce people exploring
The galaxy is large enough already without introducing time gating

Cons
Reduces immersion
Gives players more reason to keep looking
Prevents cherry picking

TLDR dont take away functionality without adding complexity or content first

 

[Obsidian Ant]

Hello Commander MyHammer!

So i guess one of the things we're asking for in this thread is: what kind of more fundametnal changes to exploration and sanning would folk be interested in seeing?

Hi Sandro! Here are a few suggestions. It would be awesome if you could take a few moments to watch the video, it contains many ideas on exploration from the community:

[video=youtube;qOz6g92TX0g]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOz6g92TX0g[/video]

 

[[VR] optimal_909]

Hi Sandro! Here are a few suggestions. It would be awesome if you could take a few moments to watch the video, it contains many ideas on exploration from the community:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qOz6g92TX0g

Exploring in Elite - dangerous on YouTube. Sorry.

 

[Poy]

For reference: currently in the beta, when entering a new system, you can use the basic discovery scanner to discover stellar bodies (up to the range of the scanner).

Discovered bodies will show in the system map as graphical representations, but in the planet map they will show as grid spheres.

You can perform a basic surface scan to learn details about the body and replace the grid sphere with a visual representation of the body’s surface.

Sounds good !

I really don't see a problem with the current system as it is already an improvement on the past (when surface map were grid spheres regardless) and a body scan (even without the detailed surface scanner) revealing a detailed picture of the surface sounds quite reasonable.

But wait, there could be an alternative. How about the honk reveals the low quality texture for both the sytem map AND the planetary map. Which means no relief or very precise textures. But a surface scan gives all of that high quality texture and 3D goodness ?

 

[Shanaeri]

The thing about revealing planetary details on a closer scan is that by the time you can scan the planet you can see the details anyway. So the whole thing is rendered annoying and pointless