Ship Transfer Costs - These Prices are Nutty!

Siranui

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careBear1 said:
Can someone explain why ship transfer must (necessarily) cost anything at all. Without reference to …... someone has to fly it for you, nothing in real life is free, good means there must be bad etc etc childishness. A time delay or limit on the frequency of use I can understand for game play reasons. Cost – do not get it.
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I am guessing perhaps because the basis of the entire game is not just space, but also capitalism. The game is about money, and making it. It is a future where despite having the resources of the galaxy and fusion energy, humanity still likes to have stuff called 'money' and charge other humans for it. It is natural that every service will come with a cost.

Also makes for a good cash sink. Games need cash sinks: Ways of getting money out of the player's bank account, rather than simply accumulating.

I guess.
 

Privata

Privata
sos4biz said:
Yes I agree that a poll was carried out and I was a participent in it, however, the prices are simply not a realistic part of the transfer mechenism and need to be rebalanced, I don't mind a cost and a time scale but I do wan't it to be fair which I don't think it is.

As I said, keep the delay, but make the costs more realistic.
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I just see it as space capitalism.
FD are open to feedback , so if need be they will change it.

Maybe they will even add a game mode (like open , solo , etc) that features intresting AI that can fight
 

Siranui

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JerryLove said:
LMAO. Seriously? Invented immersion?
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To be fair, I am struggling to think of anything that came before it which struck me as anything other than a very artificial game. I'm open to other suggestions, but I certainly don't ever recall feeling like I was driving a tank when playing on an Atari, and the crude adventure games of the time were text and word puzzles. I hadn't thought of it before, but Elite is the first game where I remember feeling like I was actually flying something myself.

Maybe that Star Wars X-wing game, but that was in the arcade and had a cockpit...


/ponder
 

gravedodger

gravedodger
20+ million to transfer my A rated Cobra to Jaques, 61hrs transit ... love it, worth it, transfer initiated :)

155+ million for my Orca, lol ... I don't love the Orca that much just yet, she can sit back in bubble a wee while longer :p

edit : on my second cmdr account
 
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JerryLove

JerryLove
Siranui said:
To be fair, I am struggling to think of anything that came before it which struck me as anything other than a very artificial game. I'm open to other suggestions, but I certainly don't ever recall feeling like I was driving a tank when playing on an Atari, and the crude adventure games of the time were text and word puzzles. I hadn't thought of it before, but Elite is the first game where I remember feeling like I was actually flying something myself.

Maybe that Star Wars X-wing game, but that was in the arcade and had a cockpit...


/ponder
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A cockpit sounds more immersive than a PC.
There was battlezone in the arcade too. That was in 3D. Also immersive.

So: Immersive games were not invented with Elite; nor was immersion in general.

On a PC?

How about Microsoft Flight Simulator in '82? Or SubLogic flight simulator in '80?
 

Arguendo

Volunteer Moderator
Arguendo
unity100 said:
actually, it isnt. if shipping a car cost ~70% of its final value - or any decent amount of that value whatsoever - no one would ship cars. shipping cars is actually quite cheap through massive ships.
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JerryLove said:
...so too might you not have 61HR transfer delays to get your ship out to a station.
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sos4biz said:
The transfer pricing is absurd to say the least, 50 Million credit to move an Asp and 1.3 Billion credits to move a Cutter to Jaques, these really need to be reduced, I don't mind the wait of 61H, but this pricing makes it a joke.
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rdizz said:
Wonderful a feature only the Super rich Can afford and to wait 3 days lol... what a slap in the face! 200 million to transfer my 6million ship 200lyrs. Right seems legit.
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Are you guys serious? You are all using the prices to transfer to Jaques as your baseline! That's like asking someone to ship your car to the moon...but you would like it to be reasonable.

hyperbole-poems.gif
 

asphaltpilot

asphaltpilot
sos4biz said:
The transfer pricing is absurd to say the least, 50 Million credit to move an Asp and 1.3 Billion credits to move a Cutter to Jaques, these really need to be reduced, I don't mind the wait of 61H, but this pricing makes it a joke.
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You're moving them to Jaques for Pete's sake. Looking at other prices within the bubble, I'd say the the moving prices are too inexpensive relative to the price+upgrades of said ships.
 

careBear1

Banned
C
Siranui said:
I am guessing perhaps because the basis of the entire game is not just space, but also capitalism. The game is about money, and making it. It is a future where despite having the resources of the galaxy and fusion energy, humanity still likes to have stuff called 'money' and charge other humans for it. It is natural that every service will come with a cost.

Also makes for a good cash sink. Games need cash sinks: Ways of getting money out of the player's bank account, rather than simply accumulating.

I guess.
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Logical. I assumed this was a QOL (out of game) mechanism to increase fun. Not someone delivering it or whatever other nonsense is supposedly involved.
 
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unity100

unity100
Jens Vedfolne said:
You know what people just write petition to frontier to reduce the cost of ship transfer. If you cry so much about it, that it breaks immersion, comparing real economy to economy of this game, comparing shipping cars here on earth in presence to shipping spaceships across stars in virtual game and so on then Frontier should listen to you guys, because thats what this game really needs, whole bunch of crying people. I dont even give a **** if they even remove ship transfer from the game. Honestly, they give you some option that is not game breaking, sort of addon to game, and you complain. Somebody posts here that he is okay with him and you ask him for ship type loadout etc. That is just pointless.
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because it is not 'okay' with me.

someone being 'okay' with something does not make it 'okay'. leave aside 'okay' by me or another persona, but more importantly 'okay' in gameplay terms.

with multiples of ship value being reported as the 'ship transfer fee', the realism in the entire universe of elite comes down in shambles:

forget conflict, wars, intrigue, politics, manufacturing, trade, even cleaning your own space-toilet in your space mansion!

for now hauling ships creates wealth FAR beyond everything in the universe combined! welcome the new era of incredible peace and prosperity.

just hauling one single ship can generate profit OVER the value of the most expensive, difficult to manufacture, top technology ships in the universe. making even manufacturing ships pointless. actually, everything becomes pointless - why wage war against empire as federation or vice versa for resources and control - you can just launch a well fledged ship hauling business, make multiples of the wealth which currently exists in the universe and can just buy out anything or anyone you want.

I think some people here have to come back to reality because they still think they are part of the game itself.
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people pay sci-fi games to take them out of the existing reality, and into a new reality. that's where the entertainment of sci-fi part of a game is.

i dont pay for being in the reality i am in. i am already in it.

i pay for being put inside alternate realities.
 
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sos4biz

S
CMDR Arguendo said:
Are you guys serious? You are all using the prices to transfer to Jaques as your baseline! That's like asking someone to ship your car to the moon...but you would like it to be reasonable.

http://www.mywordwizard.com/image-files/hyperbole-poems.gif
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Well sorry, but I don't agree with your analogy, this is a spce sim, thousands of years in the future where we explore multiple thousands of LY's, it is completely acceptable, and just becouse some of us are at Jaques does not mean we set our base lines there, the other posts I made show I simply stated the price was unrealistic and offered alternative prices which I think are more reasonable, plus don't think a car on the moon is a good idea.
 

Privata

Privata
JerryLove said:
A cockpit sounds more immersive than a PC.
There was battlezone in the arcade too. That was in 3D. Also immersive.

So: Immersive games were not invented with Elite; nor was immersion in general.

On a PC?

How about Microsoft Flight Simulator in '82? Or SubLogic flight simulator in '80?
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Right , but they are sims of real life stuff.
And had no features such as an economy.

Elite had lore , dynamic economie and true open world gameplay.
Something that would still be rare years afterwards.

When you played the first elite you felt like you where in the cockpit.
The manual was mostly ''in universe'' and had lore about the ships screen being like your moniter. all that to make you feel like you are in a spaceship.

Its true an cockpit is more immersive , but only at first. the second you start playing you dont see or think about your setting only the world in the screen.
Thats what immersion is : feeling that the world could be real. does not need to be realistic at all. but it does help.

ArmA is another example : not very realistic (as in you dont need to pee , no pain simulation and so on) but it is very immersive
 

sos4biz

S
asphaltpilot said:
You're moving them to Jaques for Pete's sake. Looking at other prices within the bubble, I'd say the the moving prices are too inexpensive relative to the price+upgrades of said ships.
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I know exactly where I am and what I want to do, the prices are simply not realistic.
 

Privata

Privata
sos4biz said:
Well sorry, but I don't agree with your analogy, this is a spce sim, thousands of years in the future where we explore multiple thousands of LY's, it is completely acceptable, and just becouse some of us are at Jaques does not mean we set our base lines there, the other posts I made show I simply stated the price was unrealistic and offered alternative prices which I think are more reasonable, plus don't think a car on the moon is a good idea.
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In elite lore most pilots dare not go beyond a few hundred lightyears.

Those that go to jaques are brave and seen as colonisers.

Its like bringing a horse cart from europe to america in 1607.
Its going to cost a bit.
 

Siranui

S
unity100 said:
but if the price for poop hauling went outside boundaries of reality, that wouldnt be alright.
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Or indeed the amount of poop created...

im taking the reports which people give in regard to what costs they encounter. they might be different than what you see around.
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Yes, they report 'too high', and don't give any number. That is opinion, not fact, and inadiqute as regards basing an informed opinion, really. These are the first numbers I have seen.

actually, it isnt. if shipping a car cost ~70% of its final value - or any decent amount of that value whatsoever - no one would ship cars. shipping cars is actually quite cheap through massive ships.

...

if you said 'put your car in a truck', it would be more reasonable. you are comparing different classes of vehicles. no higher form of travel is available in space - there are only spaceships, and we are hauling spaceships.
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Is is indeed reasonable to ship cars on a ship which can hold 20,000 cars at once and travels at 20mph, taking two weeks to arrive. :|

But hang on... you want to pull me up on an unfair comparison because I was citing a price of transporting a car in a transport that is not vastly bigger than the car, in a limited timespan... but then use the analogy of a ship to back your own belief? My analogy is poor, but is it still far more accurate. ;)

C'mon!

and no one would attempt to put a spaceship into another spaceship to haul it - the thing can already fly itself, moreover it can defend itself. it would be idiotic to put a fully armed anaconda inside a 'ship shipping ship' and carry it over long distances with much higher costs and put it in danger.
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Except that is what we are told happens, and that is how our ships are moved.


The car analogy was a poor one... all round. It is entirely irrelevant and foolish of me to delve into it, really.
 

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One thing I love about the prices is that it brings a trope from movies and books (and story driven games) into actual open gameplay.

The notion that sometimes its just cheaper to get a new one.
 

NeilF

NeilF
gravedodger said:
20+ million to transfer my A rated Cobra to Jaques, 61hrs transit ... love it, worth it, transfer initiated :)

155+ million for my Orca, lol ... I don't love the Orca that much just yet, she can sit back in bubble a wee while longer :p

edit : on my second cmdr account
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As I said, the costs need to be flattened right down and less ship value dependent...


Just to move two of my bigger ships to near an Engineer will cost me 12mCR, and then I assume the same to move them back. And it's that price just due to their ship value. Just seems the formula is too ship rebuy focused.
 
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