2.2 is rather a disappointment

[Karunamon]

Except that that isnt true. At all.

And then you go on to explain in great detail how exactly it is true. The fact that you don't like the mechanism by which it's true doesn't change the very simple fact that you were not impacted by the ability to make 20M credits in an hour by doing long range hauling.

And I'll not be addressing your reductions to the absurd.

No offense, but anyone who claims that mechanics dont need to be balanced because 'you dont have to use it' simply disqualify themselves from any reasonable discussion about game design.

I'd argue that those LRH runs were a small beacon of balance in a game full of grind and not-fun timesinks. Mission payouts in general have always been insultingly low (<1M for going hundreds of LY? 250K for going against an NPC that can turn you into space swiss cheese, and get you wanted by authorities?)

The fact that these runs were the best way to shortcut the not-fun and get to the fun is an indictment of the rest of the game, not the runs. Frontier apparently wants me to earn my way to an Anaconda and associated fittings one ~250K mission at a time. You're going to spend about 500 million to buy an Anaconda and A-fit it, and another 25 million to afford the rebuy, and that's long before we get into RNGineer grind.

That's the other reason these runs were so useful - credit rewards do not scale properly with skill/progression. A player that's triple elite with aforementioned anaconda is still going to be getting the same crap-tier missions as when they were a newbie in a sidewinder. Rewards for being faction allied with the best paying stations in the game are not appropriate.

This would be like being level 100 in World of Warcraft and receiving level 1 gold and exp for a level 100 quest.

That you yourself even go so far as to consider any discussion about game mechanics to be 'dumping biowaste on people that chose to play the game differently' is absolutely absurd.

The fact that you characterize my complaints as against the concept of discussion about game mechanics, rather than the dishonest manner you and others choose to conduct that discussion, is more than a little ironic.

 

[Sathayorn]

This would be like being level 100 in World of Warcraft and receiving level 1 gold and exp for a level 100 quest.

Except Blizzard bans cheaters.

 

[Jex =TE=]

To stop traders being ganked by a player with four fighter bays, msking an asymmetric situation moreso?

They are flat-pack assembled from parts you buy in an assembly bay, not made from scratch.

Because the FSD would contain proprietary parts. Because printers would be programmed not to print 'copyrighted' stuff. For all the same reasons we cannot 3D print things which are well beyond the capabilities of the machine. '3-D printing' is not a Star Trek replicator.

Given that you want more lore, would a tourist beacon in the home of Sirius explaining the in-game function and limitation of such devices which is in game and sanctioned resolve your issue?

What issue? I'm pointing out the inconsistency with the logic of the universe. You made a good attempt to try to explain it but they sound more like excuses. I think in a T9 I could fit any 3d printer I wanted so let's just accept that with the right sized ship and enough money, there's no reason it couldn't be done.

The other thing you said to stop gankers - who cares about traders being ganked by players with fighters. How is not having fighters going to stop them now since that already goes on. If it's a serious problem, FD need to step up and fix it - it's that simple. Change the gameplay so it works for other people but the percentage of players being "ganked" is pathetically small. You can't use that to justify only having 1 fighter though! Wow, imagine that's you're reason - it's a bit sad isn't it?

It's a good job we know the real answer though as the devs have told us - it's they don't have the technology to do it which I believe has something to do with their choice of networking route.

 

[Mystweaver]

OP, yes they have reduced the rewards for LRM & Smuggling to 20% of their original rewards. It sucks, but you can actually make MORE money than that doing Passenger missions.

Please take the time to explore the update for all that it is worth before putting a thread like this up.

 

[Karunamon]

That argument is far too easy to defeat, that I don't know why people keep trying to make it.

- Player buys game.
- Player exploits Sothis
- Player owns Conda within 5 Days

Now, the following can easily happen:

- Player loses Conda within next few days, because he has developed NO skills required to either maintain nor defend it. Player demands AI nerf. AI is nerfed.
- Player develops some skill, and now spends his time shooting newbies @ starter systems. Victims demand game change.
- Player joins private group, fly to CG, and dominate event due to having fleet of newbie condas. When CG is bombed, newbies cry for God (Dev) to intervene. Integrity of CG and BGS is destroyed.

So, let's not pretend that someone else's ship/loadout has ZERO impact on my own game.

How am I supposed to evaluate this? You think that the broken AI, broken crime and punishment, and broken station bombing mechanics should (have) remain unfixed?

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Except Blizzard bans cheaters.

Running a mission is not equivalent to cheating.

 

[xondk]

Says the wealthy billionaire....

Says anyone that knows you can earn near as good with other stuff, but that requires finding it.

Sothis/Ceos are still there though despite words, they just finally seem to have fixed mode switching, so now you have to wait for mission updates... so yeah..

 

[Obnoxious_Gamer]

LOL whut. It is basically same game, with same engine, just new features. Why call it a sequel? Also did you miss all bug fixing done in 2.2?

Um, bug fixing? I see a whole bunch of NEW bugs, and I dunno if they even fixed the old ones. Given how blatantly they lied in the patch notes about bugs being fixed, I'd say not.

 

[Karunamon]

OP, yes they have reduced the rewards for LRM & Smuggling to 20% of their original rewards. It sucks, but you can actually make MORE money than that doing Passenger missions.

Please take the time to explore the update for all that it is worth before putting a thread like this up.

Please understand that it is not unreasonable to feel cheated when a major mechanic of the game is broken. If I wanted to continue running smuggling missions, I should be able to do that, rather than being forced to switch to whatever the flavor of the week is. TBH, I'm more annoyed that missions in general remain a complete waste of time than I am that Sothis was removed. Sothis was necessary because missions are a complete waste of time.

"Play your way" is a damn lie, moreso when the people here will do nothing but mock you for expecting what was promised. In reality, it's more like play one way or the other, hahaha git gud noob if you don't want to play one or the other of those ways.

 

[Obnoxious_Gamer]

Please understand that it is not unreasonable to feel cheated when a major mechanic of the game is broken. If I wanted to continue running smuggling missions, I should be able to do that, rather than switch to whatever the flavor of the week is.

No, everything's great, this is balanced rewards...

Oh, you wanted reasonable pay for your time? Let's A) nerf the rewards to levels where your fuel costs more than the payout, or B) remove the mission type entirely. Fixed!

 

[Sathayorn]

Please understand that it is not unreasonable to feel cheated when a major mechanic of the game is broken. If I wanted to continue running smuggling missions, I should be able to do that, rather than switch to whatever the flavor of the week is.

"Play your way" is a damn lie, moreso when the people here will do nothing but mock you for expecting what was promised.

Nobody is stopping you from doing said missions, they're still there. They've just been re-balanced because some people, not pointing any fingers, were abusing an obvious exploit. (When you need to re-launch 10 times before leaving a station, it's obvious, I've seen the videos)

 

[Ian Skippy]

Just because people cheating, I mean... Exploiting... If there's a difference... Doesn't directly affect most of us, doesn't mean that some of us can choose to care and interject. I don't care that people are blatantly cheating at a video game. It's a video game. But I think we can all agree that Frontier doesn't like people cheating at their video game. If the people who make the rules tell us that what we're doing is against them, who are we to argue?

Clearly the only logical course of action is to sue for in-game funds. [cry]

You dont get

You dont get it. NMS was a failure because Sony shackled the creative genius of Sean Murray. Donald Trump will lose the election because the media never pictured him fairly and the elections are rigged. Unless he wins.

So when Frontier does something you dont like, its because of whiners. But if they do what you like, its because FD is reasonable and cares about the community.

 

[CMDR Sheehy]

Please understand that it is not unreasonable to feel cheated when a major mechanic of the game is broken. If I wanted to continue running smuggling missions, I should be able to do that, rather than switch to whatever the flavor of the week is.

"Play your way" is a damn lie, moreso when the people here will do nothing but mock you for expecting what was promised. In reality, it's more like play one way or the other, hahaha git gud noob if you don't want to play one or the other of those ways.

er... Let me think - cheated? no, no I cant. I can understand being a little upset about it. But hey, it's not like your life depends on it. Go do something else for a while and come back when they fix it. You never know, you might actually enjoy yourself doing something a bit different for a while. It happens occasionally.

 

[Karunamon]

Nobody is stopping you from doing said missions, they're still there. They've just been re-balanced

Existing, but not paying anything commensurate with their time requirement, is not "balance".

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No, everything's great, this is balanced rewards...

Oh, you wanted reasonable pay for your time? Let's A) nerf the rewards to levels where your fuel costs more than the payout, or B) remove the mission type entirely. Fixed!

Silly gamer, you should just sacrifice a massive chunk of your cargo capacity for a fuel scoop big enough to fill your tank up in less than 5 minutes every 5 jumps!

Can't you just feel the immersion​? Doesn't feel anything like an arbitrary timesink, right?

 

[Ian Skippy]

And then you go on to explain in great detail how exactly it is true. The fact that you don't like the mechanism by which it's true doesn't change the very simple fact that you were not impacted by the ability to make 20M credits in an hour by doing long range hauling.


[/COLOR]I'd argue that those LRH runs were a small beacon of balance in a game full of grind and not-fun timesinks. Mission payouts in general have always been insultingly low (<1M for going hundreds of LY? 250K for going against an NPC that can turn you into space swiss cheese, and get you wanted by authorities?)[/COLOR]

Okay, now you are really just flat-out ignoring the arguments of others, and even go to the weird lengths of saying that 'it is balanced because it is totally imbalanced with everything else'. 'Balanced' does not mean 'whatever you like'. You need a dictonary more then anything.

 

[Karunamon]

Okay, now you are really just flat-out ignoring the arguments of others, and even go to the weird lengths of saying that 'it is balanced because it is totally imbalanced with everything else'. 'Balanced' does not mean 'whatever you like'. You need a dictonary more then anything.

I could say the same thing to you. Aren't dueling opinions fun?

Opinions are not arguments, by the way. You're telling me that your enjoyment of this game is completely destroyed because your enjoyment apparently hinges on doing repetitive tasks for little reward, and the existence of a reward that is actually not insultingly small for a change just makes it impossible for you to continue.

 

[thorn-]

How am I supposed to evaluate this? You think that the broken AI, broken crime and punishment, and broken station bombing mechanics should (have) remain unfixed?

You just proved my point.

2.1 AI wasn't broken (other than the OP weapon bug, which was quickly fixed.) The difficult NPCs were just fine with with people that had taken time to actually - you know - play the game and develop combat skills. It was the credit farmers in their "But but but I bought a Conda how come i cant winnnnnnnn" whining that convinced DEV to nerf them.

As to station bombing - it isn't broken.

I tell you what, let's flip the argument to absurdity - if I spend all night UA bombing your favorite station, why does it have ANY impact on YOUR game? I'm just playing the way I want to.

 

[Broadsword1986]

another thread about Sothis-Ceos being the must have in game moneymakers...
These discussions are only good if you sit back and enjoy the ensuing flamewar.

But I love one element which is forgotten by all those who cry about it. Before you guys looked at a youtubefilm or whatever, proclaiming that Ceos was the place to be to make money in Elite, there was Robigo. and before that another station and so the saga goes on. FD is just forcing you guys to stop twidling your thumbs and go looking for other lucrative locations or activities.
Has it ever occurred to you guys that before anyone knew about Ceos, somebody had to stumble on it? There have always been places like this in game but they rotate. so get over it and actually learn to use the other features to this game and you might actually be the one who finds a location with missions offering insane payouts.

Same thing with the OP in this thread. saying that an entire update with a load of new features is disappointing because the place where you, harmless pilot, got your Anaconda is now gone, is rather pathetic. We can debate about the utility or the way certain features have been developed sure enough and I'll gladly participate to it! These kind of posts in which people just go on ranting sprees about a little element which is nowhere near unique in game, only goes to show that you're a recent addition and lack the understanding of the game's concept and the game mechanics.

 

[Arkadi]

Yeah better move on and moan over the new interdiction-nerve-bug ... thing.

edit: with this I dont agree that the whole update is a disappointment. Only some more "real" beta-testing would have been nice.

I am totally happy with other things like module-storage, ship-calling, cqc assets! Some bug fixing. Some QOL stuff. Thats cool. Nothing to complain there!

Also Robi-Ceothis nerve doesn't get me itching.

 

[Ian Skippy]

another thread about Sothis-Ceos being the must have in game moneymakers...
These discussions are only good if you sit back and enjoy the ensuing flamewar.

But I love one element which is forgotten by all those who cry about it. Before you guys looked at a youtubefilm or whatever, proclaiming that Ceos was the place to be to make money in Elite, there was Robigo. and before that another station and so the saga goes on. FD is just forcing you guys to stop twidling your thumbs and go looking for other lucrative locations or activities.
Has it ever occurred to you guys that before anyone knew about Ceos, somebody had to stumble on it? There have always been places like this in game but they rotate. so get over it and actually learn to use the other features to this game and you might actually be the one who finds a location with missions offering insane payouts.

Same thing with the OP in this thread. saying that an entire update with a load of new features is disappointing because the place where you, harmless pilot, got your Anaconda is now gone, is rather pathetic. We can debate about the utility or the way certain features have been developed sure enough and I'll gladly participate to it! These kind of posts in which people just go on ranting sprees about a little element which is nowhere near unique in game, only goes to show that you're a recent addition and lack the understanding of the game's concept and the game mechanics.

What? Finding stuff out for yourself? Thinking on your own? Learning the basics of the game? Heck no! We want endless Sothis loops, and its fun because its not grindy like everything else. Why its not grindy? Because you get a lot of money fast if you follow the little youtube guide! What? Thats not what 'grindy' means? Well, at least Sothis is balanced by being by far the best solution without any doubt! What? That is not what balanced mean?

Well, err, then ehm, just go away and stop stealing my fun!

 

[Obnoxious_Gamer]

You just proved my point.

2.1 AI wasn't broken (other than the OP weapon bug, which was quickly fixed.) The difficult NPCs were just fine with with people that had taken time to actually - you know - play the game and develop combat skills. It was the credit farmers in their "But but but I bought a Conda how come i cant winnnnnnnn" whining that convinced DEV to nerf them.

As to station bombing - it isn't broken.

I tell you what, let's flip the argument to absurdity - if I spend all night UA bombing your favorite station, why does it have ANY impact on YOUR game? I'm just playing the way I want to.

I think he's referring to how starting systems and the Founder's system can be UA bombed. And the C&P system is broken, which I think you've commented on before.

Plus, the Anaconda pilots that think it's the best combat ship make for good entertainment.

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What? Finding stuff out for yourself? Thinking on your own? Learning the basics of the game? Heck no! We want endless Sothis loops, and its fun because its not grindy like everything else. Why its not grindy? Because you get a lot of money fast if you follow the little youtube guide! What? Thats not what 'grindy' means? Well, at least Sothis is balanced by being by far the best solution without any doubt! What? That is not what balanced mean?

Well, err, then ehm, just go away and stop stealing my fun!

What? Nerfing the payout of every hauling mission type by 80% for no reason isn't balanced? Stop stealing my immersion!