Reducing distance costs by 50

[Mercury7]

http://i.imgur.com/lMt23po.jpg

I had flashes of the Travelling Salesman problem!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelling_salesman_problem

 

[Jex =TE=]

The cheaper it is, the more people will use it, the more people will fly otherwise-useless fast taxis, and wait for their main ships rather than play the game... Then complaints about waiting will follow.

Its a domino effect. People look at the first domino fall like they won something, but don't think about that last domino.

I think the people who are going to be "waiting" are those in their "taxi" ships that are stripped right down so they can get are far and fast to a destination but then won't be able to use that ship for anything else? Are you able to send a ship to station from any station or do you have to be at the destination station first?

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The developers have just saved you lots of money when using their QoL feature, and you're complaining? What the actual hell Ziljan? >_<

What are you talking about? Did you even read his post because you're not making any sense at all with yours.

 

[CmdrChorusLindarr]

Soooo.... let me get this straight... OP thinks that Fdev shouldn't have adjusted the cost of ship transfers (which is a highly requested and welcome change) because some minority of the playerbase will subsequently ask for a reduction in the ship transfer time as well....?!?!

I'm frankly baffled by the failure of simple logic in this post.

OP, FDev is in not way beholden to the players of ED to answer their every beck and call concerning their game. If FDev chose to reduce ship transfer costs, which was necessary, then it's is because they admit that they made a mistake in putting them too high in the first place. Ultimately, it is FDev that made that decision, not the forum goers.

Now you might want to listen closely to this next bit, as it might well surprise you...

Even if FDev decides to decrease the ship transfer costs (because they were indeed too high, frankly), and the playerbase asks for a further decrease in transfer time... guess what?... FDev don't actually have to listen!! ... I know, right!! Shock horror!

 

[Jex =TE=]

His entire point is that making a feature cheaper means that the tendency to use it will increase. It will be used rather willy nilly, without thought. His thoughts go like this.

If a function can be used without forethought then those who tend to be more rash will use it. People who are rash tend not to plan so well... As such, they will order their vessel without thinking the delay time through and what to do in the meantime.

As such, they will sit in the station and twiddle their thumbs for 20 minutes.

Then they will get bored and post whingy whiny negative reviews online.

Worse, they may start demanding that the time be reduced, since it's such a commonly used function they spend most of their time waiting for their ships to arrive and no time playing...

Basically he's saying that although this will give a short term gain, in the long term, the game's image will suffer.

Rather insightful comment if you ask me... Moreover, he's more concerned about Elite's image than saving himself a few MCr which can usually be made back with a single AB trade run.

Sad that it needed explaining, TBH. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that you are the type of player who might actually end up thumb twiddling.

Anyone that doesn't understand the OP should be forced to read this post 10 times over LOL

 

[Jex =TE=]

Slippery slope fallacy.
Ship transfer should be useful for more than just the small ships that you like to fly. Right now no one would consider transferring their Cutter or Corvette, especially with the reduced opportunities at making credits.

A slippery slope argument (SSA), in logic, critical thinking, political rhetoric, and caselaw, is a consequentialist logical device in which a party asserts that a relatively small first step leads to a chain of related events culminating in some significant (usually negative) effect, much like an object given a small push over the edge of a slope sliding all the way to the bottom.[1] The strength of such an argument depends on the warrant, i.e. whether or not one can demonstrate a process that leads to the significant effect. This type of argument is sometimes used as a form of fear mongering, in which the probable consequences of a given action are exaggerated in an attempt to scare the audience. The fallacious sense of "slippery slope" is often used synonymously with continuum fallacy, in that it ignores the possibility of middle ground and assumes a discrete transition from category A to category B. In a non-fallacious sense, including use as a legal principle, a middle-ground possibility is acknowledged, and reasoning is provided for the likelihood of the predicted outcome.

I highlighted the relevant part - it is a SSA but.... it's not without warrant. If more people use the feature because it's cheaper then it's quite possible more people will complain about waiting. I can see the possible outcome but I don't think the prices should remain as high as they are. Let them complain, people complain about everything it's up to FD to decide what they'll do.

I highly doubt they'd have another poll about it to begin with and I also highly doubt they'll ever make travel times instant - remember that we had to tell them instant travel would break their own game as they were going to go instant to begin with.

 

[StiTch]

You are encouraging taxis as the default transport mode now. Ergo encouraging people to sit around waiting for their ships, until they're bored and complain that ED = a waiting game.

You are setting up ED for bad reviews going forward. And this direction of change is difficult to roll back, and will lead to increasing cries to make ship transfer times shorter and shorter, until they're irrelevant. Then the 30/70 ratio is going to increase to 50/50 and there will be larger scale unrest. So you're painting yourselves into a corner where more and more players will become unhappy about a QoL enhancement.

Please think this through, and consider your next step very carefully.

Give someone a convenient new tool to help them get organised and they immediately complain as though it's been a broken mechanic since day 1...

*sigh*

 

[Jex =TE=]

Given that most of that time would be spent slightly moving the mouse and hitting "J" anyway, I think that's more of a gameplay problem that's been highlighted. Many have said this before, but what's considered to be "gameplay" in Elite isn't looked at as such in other games. Other games have fast-travel for a good reason.

What would be the point of hyperspace if we could all fast travel everywhere? I agree that travel in ED is mindnumbingly boring and simple but to some people, it's "flying" LOL

 

[careBear1]

I do not accept that the current system (or before the 50% reduction) is necessarily optimum and therefore should not be changed. And have lost sight of what the transfer is intended to achieve. Two examples: I could have transferred my cobra mk iii, 3 (or 4) jumps in 18 minutes for a cost of 37k ish. Cheaper and quicker to buy a new one and sell it back. The combat community goal in maia. The 26 jumpy jumpy fuel scoop repeat travel is just a time sink with no game content. Would have been nice to get there instantly, or in fewer jumps and then transfer the fighter I wanted to use but the cost and time penalty are too high for me – and of course it is doubled because I have to transfer the ship back. These are the ‘issues’ I would like to see addressed: unnecessary jumping for no game reason that is a pure time sink – and a big one at that. Why make a cg hard to access.
Yes it is possible to rationalise the current system as a logical whole, as with an infinite number of other approaches – and we can all boo and clap depending on how we feel, usually about how others should be allowed to play the game even though it does not affect us significantly. But the current transfer system seems marginally useful at best.

 

[c00ky1970]

I did some ship transporting on release and yesterday all the ships were back where they were? So looks like I will be saving 50% w00t!

Regarding OP, 70% of players said ship delay, so put up and shut up ;-p

 

[Jex =TE=]

Oh, hey, I can fast travel in Just Cause 2. That must mean it sucks, right? And Red Faction: Guerilla? And GTA V? And (insert basically every other successful open world game ever)?

Oh you can fast travel in GTA 5? I always drove to wherever I wanted because it's fun (some Sundays I wake up, grab my motorbike and hit first person and go for an hour bike ride LOL). Fast travel is only there if you have no patience in most games - personally I'd never put that in any game I made but...... it wouldn't be a boring grindfest going anywhere either. ED is, but that still doesn't mean we can have fast travel because it breaks the game, as in, it breaks things like powerplay, makes FSD's useless, etc

What FD need to do is redesign travelling so it's not the insanely boring mechanism it is right now.

 

[Ziljan]

Anyone that doesn't understand the OP should be forced to read this post 10 times over LOL

Maybe it would help. Several people have read my OP and somehow thought I was arguing against ship transfer delays, lol? Clearly they haven't had their coffee yet.

 

[Jex =TE=]

If I had a second monitor, I'd be watching Netflix anyway. Many people do. And once again, this just looks like you being scared of instant transfers. As long as the community votes for it, and FD are willing to listen and make changes, that's that. I don't know how many times I have to say this, but still; it's the same process that made transfers even have a delay in the first place. If the community turns around and says that delays were a bad choice, you're going to have to live with that. Just like the 30% now have to live with delays. Take a hint from your own arguments and get over it.

It's unfortunate that ED is one of those games that netflix is even an option. I don't know what to say other than you cannot call ED a game if you're doing something else whilst "playing" it.

 

[Jex =TE=]

If the transfer cost were 50% of current prices at the start no one would have complained, now they want to half it the immersion/realism brigade have grabbed their pitchforks and torches again. Predictable.

I don't know why FD, once again, failed to make the right decision about their pricing. It was blatantly too high and this is yet another example of FD getting their own game wrong. I'm at a loss to think of a reason why they set the price so high to begin with when the whole purpose of ship transfers was to bring a QoL feature to players specifically to get people moving around the galaxy - that was the exact reason for doing it then they price it so high nobody uses it LMAO. How do you even do that? I'll tell you how - by not playing the game "they wanted to make and play".

 

[GeneralIdea1964]

It's unfortunate that ED is one of those games that netflix is even an option. I don't know what to say other than you cannot call ED a game if you're doing something else whilst "playing" it.

It's still a game, but a simulation.
If you were playing a flight simulator, you have to still wait to reach your destination.

You can continue to play game with current ship until delivery arrives.
Or show some planning and order you ship transfer and then log off and come back the next day.

Frankly stop whining people.
At least you're not having to go and get the ship yourself. So it's a good improvement.
And now it's cheaper.

If it was up to me, I'd have left the original prices. You're lucky it wasn't.

 

[Eymerich]

It's still a game, but a simulation.
If you were playing a flight simulator, you have to still wait to reach your destination.

You can continue to play game with current ship until delivery arrives.
Or show some planning and order you ship transfer and then log off and come back the next day.

Frankly stop whining people.
At least you're not having to go and get the ship yourself. So it's a good improvement.
And now it's cheaper.

If it was up to me, I'd have left the original prices. You're lucky it wasn't.

Then
I am glad it wouldn't up to you.

But yes: the new prices are fair compared to the service offered.

And this is said by a person who voted against delayed transfer.

 

[Jex =TE=]

So you're telling me people will just fly stripped down taxi ships to "save time", then gripe that they have to wait for their ship? Sounds like a great way to waste money, fly in a paper-thin ship, and not actually save any time...

If ships had a 50,000 LY jump range people would use it. Travel in ED is so boring that mostly nobody wants to do it. We all recognise travel in ED as a complete waste of time with nothing to do except watch something or read a book or peel potatoes.

In all my years of gaming, I've never done something else outside a game i'm meant to be playing (oh except when I got my first MMO - Black Desert which was a boring grind as well (the map those is brilliant and worth getting on a horse to explore).

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When they announced the feature they had made a decision based on the goal of the content. Initially, it was to be instant to encourage spontaneity. That goal was rejected by the players. What we have now is the price we pay for letting the mob decide what to do. FD can't be blamed for where we are with this feature.

No, FD take full responsibility to their own game. Nobody is holding a gun to their heads, obviously. The goal was rejected by the thinking players here who, unlike FDev, looked at the proposal and saw how it would break the game.

 

[[VR] Mad Mike]

imo the cost is ok now..

its still damn expensive to get big ships to jacques (vitally important imo)

and the time taken in the bubble has not changed.

I was not unhappy with how it was before, and personally i am still ok with how it is now.

I do hope it does not drop much more however.

 

[Jex =TE=]

It's still a game, but a simulation.
If you were playing a flight simulator, you have to still wait to reach your destination.

You can continue to play game with current ship until delivery arrives.
Or show some planning and order you ship transfer and then log off and come back the next day.

Frankly stop whining people.
At least you're not having to go and get the ship yourself. So it's a good improvement.
And now it's cheaper.

If it was up to me, I'd have left the original prices. You're lucky it wasn't.

It's already been proved a dozen times that ED is no simulator. I know, I've played dozens of them and ED isn't one. There's so many things missing that could make this anywhere near a simulator but I'm sure you can think of at least 5 off your head so I don't need to.

If I was playing a flight simulator, I'd still have things to check on the route like other planes, weather, fuel, etc. I could also look out the window and see the world below me or use....shock! horror! gasp! 3rd person view to look at my plane!

However, that doesn't do anything to say ED is massively boring when it comes to travelling around but unlike a flight sim, where you can speed up time in ED, you're forced to endure it like it's torture.

 

[GeneralIdea1964]

It's already been proved a dozen times that ED is no simulator. I know, I've played dozens of them and ED isn't one. There's so many things missing that could make this anywhere near a simulator but I'm sure you can think of at least 5 off your head so I don't need to.

If I was playing a flight simulator, I'd still have things to check on the route like other planes, weather, fuel, etc. I could also look out the window and see the world below me or use....shock! horror! gasp! 3rd person view to look at my plane!

However, that doesn't do anything to say ED is massively boring when it comes to travelling around but unlike a flight sim, where you can speed up time in ED, you're forced to endure it like it's torture.

You were taking my analogy a bit literally I feel.
You have assorted USS 's to investigate if you wish and you don't "have" to go to locations that are a long SC away.
So while you can sit there and do nothing, it's not that you have nothing you could do.

Anyway I still support having to wait a bit for your ship to arrive.

 

[JuicerPrime]

What are you talking about? Did you even read his post because you're not making any sense at all with yours.

Allow me to paraphrase!

Frontier: We've halved prices on ship transfer! Everyone have more money, and rejoice!

Unwashed Masses: Huzzah!

Ziljan: Lower costs? Doom. Only doom can come of this.

Me:

I am very fond of the forum regulars, but sometimes you have to put your foot down with a firm hand and say no to conspiracy thinking and paranoia. Cheaper ship transfer helps less well-off players and leaves us all with extra credits to spend on other things. Like rebuys, or drugs, or regret. Just...try to enjoy the nice things when they happen without projecting shenanigans and mischief, Frontier forums. Just once.