Playing devils advocate here can you answer this question - is finding these new ways fun? Is there fun in the finding?
If finding new ways is a tedious, annoying mechanic then why would anyone want to do that?
2.2 is rather a disappointment
- Thread starter Cmdr BurntrubberRB26
- Start date
Playing devils advocate here can you answer this question - is finding these new ways fun? Is there fun in the finding?
If finding new ways is a tedious, annoying mechanic then why would anyone want to do that?
Shipping Do Do back and forth, logging in and out of the game to stack Do Do missions, is clearly the most exciting thing anyone's ever done in a game! What have I been missing?
I wasn't responding to the OP which was blatantly obvious and you wrote out that huge post for nothing. Here, let me show you the post I replied to...
Now why did you decide to sling your oar in where it wasn't asked for or needed and then announce to everyone here how brilliant you are at not reading other peoples posts or understanding them and then smugly trying to tell us how we're wrong is beyond me.
*Golf claps*
Well down....you really got me there
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Really? Because if the've been making games for 3 decades, how do you explain the state of the game right now!?
Some people need 4 threads with polls to do that [heart]
Ian Phillips
Volunteer Moderator
I manage to play it just fine.
What exactly are you talking about when you mention 'the state of the game'? I might be able to give an explanation as I see it, if I knew what you are refering to.
Vastly improved from 1.0 and still enjoying the journey. It's called Agile Development. It's the only way games like this get written... unless your name is Chris Roberts and you can mug people for $1000 for a digital ship that you can't have for 5 years until he's finished it.
To explain the case from a game developer point of view...
Every in-game exploit is a fault. A good programmer WILL eventually correct them.
There should be no way in ED to exploit a money/time wasted situation.
When a proper formula is created by the devs, all types of missions will have a balanced payment according to time spent-distance traveled- cargo value/passenger value
This means that skimmer missions and sightseing missions will also be balanced (the pay too much now).
The 2.2 patch has lowered the value of cargo missions, but I don't need to ask the devs to know that it is temporary.
So, about exploits, mates... use them while you can, but don't whine when they are gone. Space is a harsh place. Get used to it.
Every in-game exploit is a fault. A good programmer WILL eventually correct them.
There should be no way in ED to exploit a money/time wasted situation.
When a proper formula is created by the devs, all types of missions will have a balanced payment according to time spent-distance traveled- cargo value/passenger value
This means that skimmer missions and sightseing missions will also be balanced (the pay too much now).
The 2.2 patch has lowered the value of cargo missions, but I don't need to ask the devs to know that it is temporary.
So, about exploits, mates... use them while you can, but don't whine when they are gone. Space is a harsh place. Get used to it.
To the OP - My point is that it is pointless to even discuss such things here. Here is why.
Engaging with the chosen few here is a fruitless effort. Incapable of stepping back and looking at things as a whole. They are comfortable with fabricating missing features and missing fun in their own heads to fill in the gaps for the missing content in the game. If they are creative (and delusional) enough to do that for a game that is supposed to do it for you is shows you the type of fanbase you are engaging with in these forums.
I'll give you a perfect example.
Hillary Clinton. There is a mountain.. and I mean a MOUNTAIN of evidence showing she's been involved in all sorts of criminal activity. Grey areas and black and white areas. There are people who literally know all of this information. Know some of the treason and the murder and the lies, but still choose to support her rabidly. They'll show up at her rallies and will think she is a god and will pretty much worship her. It is a mental illness.
You find people like this with every game I've ever seen since the C=64 days when gaming really took hold and BBS's really began.
It is people who have no problem overlooking fatal flaws and will fervently fight for that person/game/developer/sporting person etc.
Think of the people plugged into The Matrix and the Lady in Red scene. Re-watch that and you'll understand that engaging with people so hopefully dependent on the system and so plugged in that they'll fight to protect it. It is best to avoid them at all costs.
I've learned this. So this post is pretty useless if for anything other than throw your rants out there and let the rabble roll with it.
So this isn't directed at any one person. It is a product of most things I've seen. You need to learn your captors. Once you are spent you have a form of Voluntary Stockholm Syndrome. That is exactly the type of people you are engaging with.
It is a cross between https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traumatic_bonding and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
Engaging with the chosen few here is a fruitless effort. Incapable of stepping back and looking at things as a whole. They are comfortable with fabricating missing features and missing fun in their own heads to fill in the gaps for the missing content in the game. If they are creative (and delusional) enough to do that for a game that is supposed to do it for you is shows you the type of fanbase you are engaging with in these forums.
I'll give you a perfect example.
Hillary Clinton. There is a mountain.. and I mean a MOUNTAIN of evidence showing she's been involved in all sorts of criminal activity. Grey areas and black and white areas. There are people who literally know all of this information. Know some of the treason and the murder and the lies, but still choose to support her rabidly. They'll show up at her rallies and will think she is a god and will pretty much worship her. It is a mental illness.
You find people like this with every game I've ever seen since the C=64 days when gaming really took hold and BBS's really began.
It is people who have no problem overlooking fatal flaws and will fervently fight for that person/game/developer/sporting person etc.
Think of the people plugged into The Matrix and the Lady in Red scene. Re-watch that and you'll understand that engaging with people so hopefully dependent on the system and so plugged in that they'll fight to protect it. It is best to avoid them at all costs.
I've learned this. So this post is pretty useless if for anything other than throw your rants out there and let the rabble roll with it.
So this isn't directed at any one person. It is a product of most things I've seen. You need to learn your captors. Once you are spent you have a form of Voluntary Stockholm Syndrome. That is exactly the type of people you are engaging with.
It is a cross between https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traumatic_bonding and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance
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![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
(attempt at) impartial hat on................. naaah it doesnt fit!.
OK so i would say, the "state" of the game right now is fantastic at its core, lacking in some areas and with a few bugs which probably should not have made it through beta and some design choices I am personally not a fan of (RNG too little persistance and some lacking in internal consistency).
Its far from perfect but all I can do is speak for myself and say i enjoy playing it. Content wise the game is far better than it was when it launched..... Personally earnings wise i probably preferred it at launch.. but i know this is not a popular view.
But here is the thing, imo ED is one huge challenge of a game to pull off...... esp when the devs have not had GTA V R* type money and man power to put in it.
The other "better" games which many have said on these forums games which are going to smash it into the ground.
one was NMS - I would say that did not turn out so well... I am massively dissapointed by that game..... anyone remember the early trailer?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLtmEjqzg7M
That is not the game i saw at release.
And then there is Star Citizen.... OK MAYBE that will deliver and totally smash elite dangerous.......... but given it is not going to be out for at least another year, 2018 is my bet (S42 will probably launch next year) well, then it SHOULD be technically better than elite as it will be 4 years newer!.
And besides thats all a big IF imo.... its all well and good selling on hopes and dreams. FD did that with the DDF, but eventually launch day reality bit, and who is to say the same wont happen in star citizen??. Even then tho, I backed SC as well as ED, and personally i think the ED flight model knocks spots of the SC one... and for me space games are all about VR, and with the design choices CIG/RSI have made in SC, I worry they wont be able to pull off VR in SC.
TLDR E
has its issues, but show me a better game in the genre I can play right now... and if it is so much better why are we all not playing it?
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I guess you didn't read my posts here then - I thought I'd made it pretty clear on some of the things but we can start with Engineers - who is making that kind of simple, RNG gameplay these days on top of massive grind?
I watched the Alien Artifact video today in another thread, have you seen it? There is see quality - Engineers I see the cheaperst, nastiest kind of gameplay you could introduce.
Match up the awesomeness of the alien ruins with red and blue wiggly lines. Sorry, there's a massive disconnect here.
Then there's the constant changes because FD can't get things right. We're already seeing prices drop for ship transfers by 50% (they got it wrong that much?) - you have to think here and understand that FD made ship transfers specifically to get people moving around the galaxy.....then they charge too much for it! Who's in charge here??? LOL
You get the immersive, alien ruins and then you're slapped in the face by teleporting AI on RNG. Cheap, nasty game mechanics in one hand, beautiful graphics, hidden mysteries and awe inspiring vistas in the other.
There's a reason ED is still described as a mile wide and inch deep. Someone who's been making games for 3 decades should understand this. More proof they don't know what they're doing - how many people have said they need to move with the times. FD themselves have admitted "they don't make MP games" so I don't really know what more to add to make the case. If you haven't seen it already, I doubt you will now?
(attempt at) impartial hat on................. naaah it doesnt fit!.
OK so i would say, the "state" of the game right now is fantastic at its core, lacking in some areas and with a few bugs which probably should not have made it through beta and some design choices I am personally not a fan of (RNG too little persistance and some lacking in internal consistency).
Its far from perfect but all I can do is speak for myself and say i enjoy playing it. Content wise the game is far better than it was when it launched..... Personally earnings wise i probably preferred it at launch.. but i know this is not a popular view.
But here is the thing, imo ED is one huge challenge of a game to pull off...... esp when the devs have not had GTA V R* type money and man power to put in it.
The other "better" games which many have said on these forums games which are going to smash it into the ground.
one was NMS - I would say that did not turn out so well... I am massively dissapointed by that game..... anyone remember the early trailer?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLtmEjqzg7M
That is not the game i saw at release.
And then there is Star Citizen.... OK MAYBE that will deliver and totally smash elite dangerous.......... but given it is not going to be out for at least another year, 2018 is my bet (S42 will probably launch next year) well, then it SHOULD be technically better than elite as it will be 4 years newer!.
And besides thats all a big IF imo.... its all well and good selling on hopes and dreams. FD did that with the DDF, but eventually launch day reality bit, and who is to say the same wont happen in star citizen??. Even then tho, I backed SC as well as ED, and personally i think the ED flight model knocks spots of the SC one... and for me space games are all about VR, and with the design choices CIG/RSI have made in SC, I worry they wont be able to pull off VR in SC.
TLDR E
You see we differ in our concept of core game lol.
I don't think the core game has been done that well at all. It's all RNG. To give some examples...
AI teleporting in front of your eyes
never ending RES/CZ/Nav
Extremely limited and simplistic economy
USS's
POI's (USS's on planets)
Eng's
PowerPlay (One, it's pretty awful grindy and 2, they met with the PP community and said "suck it up, we're not making anymore changes even though we know it's broken" - there's a thread on it somewhere.
Constant changes to the game. The AI suck too much, change the AI, they're too hard, change them again, too easy, change again, too hard, eeeek they all have upgraded mods level 5, arrgghhhh but we beta tested all of this....obviously you can't beta test either!
Think back to all the bugs and chages and fixes and changes back then back again over the last couple of years and then picture the next 8 years being the same but progressively getting worse as more bugs get introduced over old bugs they're not fixing.
I hear they've been making games for 30 years but really, what games? If ED is so hard to make, how come FE2 managed to fit on a floppy disk? The galaxy was the same PG one here pretty much. The missions worked and were more fun but then I was a kid back then - my gaming requirements weren't what they are today. So we have better graphics now but the core game, isn't that mostly the same? RNG AI, RNG mission board - what's moved on since then?
Try Everchron Legacy
to each their own but for me the core of the game is
the reproduction of the milky way
the flight model of the game
and audio and visual assets in the game
their embracing of VR support is pretty much industry leading imo.
and the basic game play and for this i will give 1 example as you mentioned it.
So, the actual fighting of ships in a RES i would say is the core and to me its fantastic fun.
its implementation of them infinitely respawning with seeming no change no matter how long i stay there i would say is lacking, and in need of some work.
but the core gameplay of pew pew whilst flying around with my vr goggles on among asteroids, to me, that is some of the most fun i have ever had in a game....
I just hope the guff surrounding that core concept is improved a bit.
just 1 example
the reproduction of the milky way
the flight model of the game
and audio and visual assets in the game
their embracing of VR support is pretty much industry leading imo.
and the basic game play and for this i will give 1 example as you mentioned it.
So, the actual fighting of ships in a RES i would say is the core and to me its fantastic fun.
its implementation of them infinitely respawning with seeming no change no matter how long i stay there i would say is lacking, and in need of some work.
but the core gameplay of pew pew whilst flying around with my vr goggles on among asteroids, to me, that is some of the most fun i have ever had in a game....
I just hope the guff surrounding that core concept is improved a bit.
just 1 example
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I hear great things about VR however, that doesn't help the majority of players not using one. It's great to have all the things you stated but there's no "game" there, that's just experience. The things you said they've done extremely well but for someone that wants a game to play, what is there to do - if we took away all the looks of the game as you described above, what are we left with?
Further evidence FD don't know what they're doing is the Transfer of ships. This is more for Ian - they were going to make ship transfers instant. Nobody in ED even thought about how that would affect their own game and break it? If they knew what they were doing, why this massive, game breaking oversight?
Play Arma 3 Exile Mod, maybe. Are you even in the right forum. Shouldn't you be over here: http://www.exilemod.com/forum/129-general-discussion/ talking about how great Arma 3 is?
It is fair to say the "Experience" of playing Elite *IS* as massive part of the game for me, so I agree there. I backed elite because of the notion of wanting the experience of playing "the life of a space man"......... and the thought of what that experience has cost me is scary (X55 hotas / oculus rift DK2 / CV1, playseat flight seat and my kickstarter pledge)... christ i could go abroad on holiday for that lot... but then i would not be able to "play" at spaceman. (and I am not "loaded" in real life, it was a significant investment)
But I do concede we obviously want different things out of the game, and for me ED delivers seemingly closer to what I want than what you want......... and I will also concede it possibly why I get over protective when something threatens to "break" that game experience.
The transfer of ships, I have my own spin on it, which i may have posted here... i certainly put it somewhere.
Ship transfer was meant to be timed, as detailed at the bottom of my post
I feel FD tried to sneak in a cheap "easy" way of doing it just to tick a box, and they tried to sugar coat it. Personally I do not for 1 second thing they thought it was BETTER than their initial plan.... just easier (I cant prove this)
however they then realised it would not fly and so were forced to do it "properly" (as in how they advertised it in the 1st place).
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/6753-Elite-Dangerous-Multiple-Ship-Ownership
Players can only swap their current ship whilst in a registered storage location
If the desired ship isn’t present then the player must arrange a transfer which costs a fee and takes time based on the distance the transferred ship needs to travel to get to the current storage location
The same restrictions and pricing as above are applied here too
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your comments are good but i gotta pull you up on this one
frontier have been making elite games for 30 years, pretty sure you know that. Elite games have always been RNG heavy since the beginning. this isn't a game you finish, if you've played original Elite you know how this kind of gameplay works. If you don't enjoy this kind of game any more fair enough but Elite will always be Elite (this is a GOOD thing). Given the growing salty divisions of the playerbase i think FD do a pretty good job of the impossible task of trying to keep everyone happy (or at least equally unhappy) and still making the game at the same time.not sure how FE2 fitting on a floppy disc has anything to do with E
. don't get me wrong i completely agree that the RNG can be in-your-face (had a proper LOL first time i saw the RNGineers roulette bars) and as mad mike puts it the 'guff' round the core gameplay should (and is) being improved. But RNG is rapidly becoming one of those dirty words forum users throw about, please explain how FD can make a galaxy this size without using RNG and without it taking 3,000,000 content makers 3,000,000 years to do.
the comparison to star citizen doesn't really stand as SC is a smaller gameworld but more hand made. they really have very different aims for very different games. i don't get why fans of space games don't just buy them both rather than constantly trying to change one into the other.
two cool space games is better than oneif i had the time i'd go back and cross check anyone who says 'SC is gonna blow elite away' and see if its the same people who relentlessly posted 'screw this game i'm waiting for NMS' all those months ago. i have my suspicions
things like shutting down the sothis run (in OP) aren't a problem in my mind as this forces players to interrogate the BGS to try to find where the good missions are. this is an improvement to the depth of how we use the RNG. Personally the sothis run was always too boring for me so its removal doesn't detract much from how much fun i'm having with the fighters. Whilst it may take a bit longer to be disgustingly rich that was never really the point of E
. Anyway, aren't these kind of relentless grinding people want to go?
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OK I think we're after the same things LOL. I want the experience. I've been thinking of getting a VR headset just because of Elite - immersion is important to me. So imagine ED with the experience but bolted onto that was a better economy that made more sense. AI didn't just spawn in a zone ad infinitum and CZ's were more than just a group of fighters - give us objectives - heck, give us multiple CZ's with multiple objectives - imagine that!
OK Mike we need you to secure that asteroid and set up a comms relay station so our torpedo ship can launch and use the relay to guide it's torp through the eneny carriers ECM screen.
Mike, Mike!!!! Red Alert! Get in the ....ummm..air? We need to to stop a torpedo coming in on our capital ship! It's going to have an escort but we're sure you can handle it!
Tell me that isn't infinitely better than a blob of never ending AI
We could easily have that too - it's been done a hundred times before. Let's not settle for mediocre here.
Well i have not given up on it coming........
its a tiny thing but the npc avatars and ship crew add a massive amount to the game imo, before getting blown up was a stinger (I lost my FGS a few days before 2.2 dropped) but it will really hurt when my npc dies ..... that kind of bonding with my ship is a massive step in the right direction.
The devs have said they ARE working on persistance of npcs and "stuff" in the game, and if (when) this comes online it was be a huge boon as well.
I cant even remember what the original post was about now ..... ah yeah 2.2 dissapointment.....
i have to go now, but to me 2.2 is not a dissapointment, its a step in the right direction, but the journey is still far from complete.
fly safe and have a good weekend all!.
its a tiny thing but the npc avatars and ship crew add a massive amount to the game imo, before getting blown up was a stinger (I lost my FGS a few days before 2.2 dropped) but it will really hurt when my npc dies ..... that kind of bonding with my ship is a massive step in the right direction.
The devs have said they ARE working on persistance of npcs and "stuff" in the game, and if (when) this comes online it was be a huge boon as well.
I cant even remember what the original post was about now ..... ah yeah 2.2 dissapointment.....
i have to go now, but to me 2.2 is not a dissapointment, its a step in the right direction, but the journey is still far from complete.
fly safe and have a good weekend all!.
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