Horizons An Open Letter Regarding New Players, and The Future

[MrFailfactory]

Hello, Commanders.

First, I want to say that I love this game, and just the way it is. It's what I've been looking for since SWG shut down. As much as I like the game though, it has a problem, and it's a problem that I believe is going to get worse over time. I'm sure that FD has, at the very least, been thinking about ways to address this issue, but it's my opinion that they need to act sooner, rather than later. Like any business, a consistent influx of new customers is what keeps the business going, and allows it to grow. There are reams of statistical data that tell with a high degree of certainty what tenured customers are likely to do, and in what timeframes - this is why new customers always get the best deals, and tenured customers are seemingly left out in the cold.

So, what's the problem? I had a big, flowery post in mind, but I think I'm just going to get straight to it: the mountain is rather large, and it's just going to get bigger. In other words, it takes too long to actually be able to do anything meaningful in the game. This isn't even including the various reputation, ship, or Engineer grinds - I'm referring to just having enough cash to take part in a way that doesn't feel like a waste of time.

I'm hoping that anyone who reads this will try to remember what it was like when they first started playing the game, rather than using the perspective that time and experience have provided. If I had to start over completely, I am quite sure that I could recover my bank balance within a month, and most of the ships as well, but a new player isn't likely to be able to do something like that. A new player with average time to play is probably looking at months (yes, months) before they can actually start doing the things they want to do. It reminds me of the South Park episode "Make Love, not Warcraft." It took them so long to actually be able to enjoy the game, that by the time they got there, the interest had faded.

Again, this post isn't about me, but in a way, it kind of is - one of the reasons that I spend so much of my game time playing this game is because I just happened to be able to take part in the bugged CG, which saved me those months of building. Now, I can do whatever I want, and there is plenty of content to keep me occupied in various aspects of the game. Not only do I have enough to do whatever, but more importantly, I can recover the costs of disaster fairly quickly, because I am past that hump.

On a related note, there was the *Sothis issue.* Personally, I think they should have left it alone, but that's in the past, now. I would like to propose something that perhaps fixes both issues:

Put simply, missions that go to Hutton Orbital that profit 1M credits per ton, with a maximum of 20 tons per run. This would be a special mission that shows up in all stations, where you choose the tonnage you want to run, and also provides a commensurate amount of rep for the Superpower of the station you accepted it from. I chose that location specifically, and I'm sure you all know why - it takes time. Time for a new player to get to the system in the first place, and then make the run(s). Time for tenured players that want to farm credits (or the rep) in a *convenient* fashion, should they choose to do it this way. This gives new players a way to get into the *actual* beginning of the game earlier, so that they can begin to take part in content in a meaningful fashion within the first month of play - not 3-6 months.

I am not (and would not) ask for a ride straight to the top of the mountain - that would be foolish. What I am proposing, however, is a gondola ride to the first base camp. Obviously, this is only one idea, and perhaps there are better ones, but the point remains that something needs to be done, and the sooner FD addresses this issue in a way that makes sense, the sooner we all benefit.

Thanks for reading, and I welcome commentary, but please leave out minutiae and one-off situations.

Fly...however it is you fly, Commanders o7

Riôt

 

[Sanderson]

Please allow me to offer a different perspective. I've been playing since the very beginning. The very first Alpha available to backers.

I have a Vulture worth about 22m and 14m cr balance. My highest rank is Deadly in combat. I just reached this rank a day or so ago. All of the various things to do, all the ships and gear and all the places to see that I've yet to experience is something to look forward to and keeps me playing.

Other's ships, gear and credit balance means nothing to me and doesn't negatively affect my game-play at all, in fact it enhances it. I pity those that have ground there way to the pinnacle of ship/gear combinations. I've taken the scenic route so to speak and still have so much more to look forward to.

It is my opinion that, if anything, FD needs to do the opposite of your suggestion and make it even harder to make millions of credits. There's far too many bored Annie owners out there already.

There's just about nothing in ED that can't be accomplished in a Sidewinder and a few credits. In just a few play sessions a new commander can attain the ship and gear to do everything the game offers.

Maybe I'm unique, but laying in bed and reading/responding to this thread got me thinking about all the things in ED I've yet to do. So, I'm getting up, putting the Oculus on and firing up the HOTAS to go have some more fun right now!

 

[Mercury7]

Please allow me to offer a different perspective. I've been playing since the very beginning. The very first Alpha available to backers.

I have a Vulture worth about 22m and 14m cr balance. My highest rank is Deadly in combat. I just reached this rank a day or so ago. All of the various things to do, all the ships and gear and all the places to see that I've yet to experience is something to look forward to and keeps me playing.

Other's ships, gear and credit balance means nothing to me and doesn't negatively affect my game-play at all, in fact it enhances it. I pity those that have ground there way to the pinnacle of ship/gear combinations. I've taken the scenic route so to speak and still have so much more to look forward to.

It is my opinion that, if anything, FD needs to do the opposite of your suggestion and make it even harder to make millions of credits. There's far too many bored Annie owners out there already.

If you had the game since Alpha, would it be fair to think you're upset for your apparent lack of progress in all that time?

Let's look at a very real fact - FD put player ships in the game that cost 250 M cr. If it takes 10 years of playing ED to get there, it is kind of pointless.

I'm not telling you how to play, so please don't think you can tell others how to, either.

 

[Sanderson]

If you had the game since Alpha, would it be fair to think you're upset for your apparent lack of progress in all that time?

Let's look at a very real fact - FD put player ships in the game that cost 250 M cr. If it takes 10 years of playing ED to get there, it is kind of pointless.

I'm not telling you how to play, so please don't think you can tell others how to, either.

Upset? On the contrary, I'm extremely happy I have a game I can play for years and enjoy. Had I chosen to rush to the "best" I would have missed all the fun I've had so far. There's so much more to do and see in ED than just ship/gear grind.

I wasn't telling anyone how to play BTW, I was offering a different perspective.

 

[Mercury7]

Upset? On the contrary, I'm extremely happy I have a game I can play for years and enjoy. Had I chosen to rush to the "best" I would have missed all the fun I've had so far. There's so much more to do and see in ED than just ship/gear grind.

I wasn't telling anyone how to play BTW, I was offering a different perspective.

[up]

Well, whilst it may appear I simply rushed to "the best", IMHO it has given me the chance to explore the galaxy and do what I want. I didn't enjoy ED any less or see anything less for it. I'm now investigating the things I haven't done yet, in detail, without the pressure of "if I lose a ship I'm a death away from bankruptcy".

Like I say, we all want to do things differently, and so we take different things from it at different times. There is no right or wrong way to do it.

Long ago I had a ship capable of exploration (DBX) but I decided to keep going and try the larger ships. My biggest motivation for aiming for the Annie is the stock jump range. The DBX is no slouch at 32 Ly with equipment. Personal preference.

 

[Chrystoph]

I think it is rather telling that there are numerous posts in various forums about how to make money. To me, that says that the system on the low end is... flawed.

This is especially true when you consider that the NPCs are not in keeping with the "average" person. When I was first starting out, I read some of the fiction that makes up history of the game and it emphasized that a Cobra was an achievement to strive for, but most NPCs are well past that.

A player who sees everything not as a challege but as evidence that they are stuck in newbie IS less likely to hang around. You can argue that, "We didn't want that player anyway", but, as the OP points out, new players are what keeps the business running.

 

[MrFailfactory]

Good discussion so far.

Sanderson - I want to say thank you for the different perspective. It's important to show that there is more than one type of player enjoying this game, and for different reasons and motivations. Do what you enjoy, and I'm glad you had the courage to speak up. You did say something, however, that I wanted to directly respond to - the *bored Annie owners.* I am certain that you are correct, but I want to come back to something I had posted regarding tenured players. Those players that you speak of, are going to get bored and leave at some point (at least for a time), no matter what. This is a statistical certainty, and while I'm not saying that those players aren't important, they are not the ones to try to keep around because the math says that this strategy will fail.

I had a couple of other thoughts while at work today:

The mission I mentioned could only show up if your credit balance is less than 5M - it shows up, and you have the option to take it to get back on your feet quickly, and keep moving forward.

Alternatively, FD could do a ship check when someone signs up for a CG, and if the player doesn't have *decent* ships to meaningfully participate, then a decently kitted combat and/or trade vessel will become available for them to use (and is pointed out clearly) for the duration of the CG. They can't mod it or Engineer it, but giving them a decent Vulture/T6 to use that will disappear (or be offered for purchase afterwards, which would unlock the modding restrictions). This could potentially achieve two goals - it provides a way to participate, and earn your own way up without using a *handout,* but it might also create some excitement for either those ships, or the game types they represent. The more I think about it, the more I like this idea better than the one I originally proposed.

I hope the discussion continues, and that more ideas come to light.

In the interests of fairness, I also want to point out that it really doesn't take long to get a decently equipped T6 to take part in CG's, even for a new player. This isn't really what I'm talking about, though - I'm talking about getting out of the poorhouse quicker, so that new players aren't terrified (and then, discouraged) because they have 100k left after getting that new ship.

Finding ways to lift new players out of the poorhouse, and engaging ways to keep them (just) out of it, is a good thing for the long term of the game. Other games (most MMO's) realize the point when the levelling portion of the game has gotten too bloated, and becomes too much of a barrier to entry, and they make changes to streamline that early process so that new players can get into *the real game* quicker. I think this game is knocking on the door to this decision, and I'm hoping that FD has good plans for how to handle it.

Riôt

 

[Asp Explorer]

Another Alpha here.

Got my Asp, under 200M Cr, Competent, Merchant, Pioneer, Helpless. Some people will be filling lulzbuckets at that perceived lack of progress - when I've actually spent a lot of time and been pretty careful to not progress in a way that doesn't fit my game.

It's a game, enjoy it at your own pace. There is no point rushing through everything to get to the "end-game", because there is no "end-game" in something like Elite.

Your first jump as a n00b Sidewinder pilot gives you exactly the same options as some min-maxer who has used every credit massaging tweak, friends dumping valuable cargo for them, and use of 3rd party sites possible. You can do what you want to in your starter ship.

What that is, is up to you.

 

[Asp Explorer]

I wonder if anyone will ever come up with a unified Munchkin / Lulzbunny duality-equivalency theory

 

[Mercury7]

I wonder if anyone will ever come up with a unified Munchkin / Lulzbunny duality-equivalency theory

They have - it's called Munch-Bunny Entanglement.

Perhaps it is due to what I call 'Munchkin inflation', players who use every exploit and min/max of any game to get the best in everything, rush through with the best 'gear', then announce the game is boring or that they didn't really enjoy it, too many player progress too quickly, often spoil it for newbs (Munchkins are often PKs), so devs have to roll out patches for exploits and raise the bar.

Well, as I have said before (this topic is getting old now...) Sothis for example was NOT an exploit, and it didn't need "nerfing". Who is to say players are progressing "too quickly"? I'm not enjoying ED any less for what some would perceive as fast progress.

I also know there is no "end game" in ED, and I'm very cool with that. In fact, to me, ED is a breath of fresh air in that it is a largely open-world experience, where you can play it how you like. Many other games are 3D versions of scrolling-world games where you HAVE to go where the devs pre-scripted it. One game I played for about 2 minutes was so bad, the in-game characters basically told which keys to press, when. I have never been so bored in my life!

I think the biggest thing where FD screwed up this time is that the player base was mostly happy, but FD apparently didn't like it, and changed the rules of the game. If they can put missions, and mission rewards back as they were in 2.1, it will mostly fix the problems.

Before 2.2 released, people discussed how to do things. Since 2.2 released, people are only discussing the problems with 2.2. That is a MASSIVE problem and needs fixing urgently, IMHO.

 

[relayer]

I think it is rather telling that there are numerous posts in various forums about how to make money. To me, that says that the system on the low end is... flawed.

I can't think of one modern game, including KSP, that doesn't have posts and details about making credits, as well as how to loadout a beginner's ship/druid/Wizard/Healer/whatever. "Starter Guides" are all available through the net.

 

[Cosmos]

The reference to that south park vid is a moot point because you can use solo/pg if you wish and unless you are hanging around cg's all the time in Open the chances of you getting drilled by OP players is miniscule.

Whilst the Sothis thing has dried up the new passenger missions pay outs are awesome. When ED first came out it wasn't easy to make tons of credits as it is now. Nevertheless it takes everyone time and effort to get enough credits to buy ships and equipment.

That said, the largest ships do not represent ultimate end game content and ships such as the Python or Clipper enable you to do everything you need to. Indeed - a well equipped Asp or Cobra means you are a prospect and can enjoy and take part 'fully' in the game.

However, if you are expecting to be at the apex of the game or be in a fully modded cutter for PvP purposes that is gonna take you time to achieve, but then its taken lots of people a long time to get those too.

The best way to get a head in ED, if thats your aim, is to be versitile in your approach and try different roles, don't get stuck in a rut, and try to better understand how the BGS sim works. Keep your eyes peeled for CGs and posts on reddit or the forums for hints people post about good ways to make money. Sometime back there was a CG that paid out hundreds of millions for being in the top 50%, etc..

There is no win, as many people have said many times, enjoy the journey a little. In a couple of months with modest but savy play its very possible to get a decent ship and have a nice cushion of credits. Rome wasn't built in a day either. I've been playing for years but there are people out there with way more money and who have gotten Triple Elite compared to my one. It makes zero difference to my enjoyment of the game.

 

[[VR] Deggial]

I wasn't part since Alpha, but since (late) Beta.

And while I still love this game, the perception of it has changed over time. The game is richer now, there is more to do, more to experience. And this is obviously a good thing!

However, I doubt I ever enjoyed the game as much as I did when everything was new and fresh. When I first opened the galaxy map and zoomed out and out ... and out, I trembled (and I mean this literally!) over the sheer vastness of what I faced and my little, meaningless insignificance in it.
And then I headed out there in my tiny Sidewinder and tried to make my fortune. It was a glorious time!

And part of it was indeed my vulnerability. The knowledge, that better ships were just the dream of a distant future.
It took me long, just to be able to afford my first Hauler - and how good it felt to fly it the first time!
My first Eagle (I skipped the "Freeagle", as I wanted to experience the whole game progression and at this time, it was placed at the other end of the human bubble anyway) was a relevation, as my combat strength skyrocked in comparison to what I flew before.
And so on ... Viper, Cobra, ... when I finally purchased my first Python, I was indeed somehow sad, as it meant the pinnacle of my ship progression. (I never was overly interested in the Anaconda).
In short: I really, really enjoyed my slow ship progression.

When 2.1 dropped, I started over.
And in no time at all I progressed over Cobra MkIV to ViperMkIV and owned a Vulture. Only some weeks later (I don't play as often as I did in the beginning any more), I own the Python again. I think, this is too fast. I skipped many ships inbetween.

And when I write "too fast", it's not because I begrudge new players their in-game progression and think, they don't deserve to fly the high tier ships.
It is, because I have the feeling that they miss (I would even say: are cheated out of) something, I personally enjoyed so much: the slow but constant progression of ship-ownership and the related fondness of the increased capabilities.
Jumping from the Sidewinder into the Vulture (or even larger) ships in mere days just isn't the same.

 

[jonluv]

I wonder if anyone will ever come up with a unified Munchkin / Lulzbunny duality-equivalency theory

Newish to game --30 days--- have 250 million 4 ships up to Python -- have Mined, run Rares done Missions , Smuggled and Traded .

Would love to get into combat, assassinations etc but rubbish at combat but REBUY stands in the way.
If FD would ditch Rebuy who knows I may become a Combat Ace

The Panacea??? Get rid of REBUY

 

[Frankymole]

Talking of new players, what has happened to the basic controls training podule?

Although I'd played original Elite in 1985, and Frontier Elite II/FFE, it was useful to try out the first faltering steps (and key/joystick controls) in a "shoot barrels" scenario rather than pressurised combat and bounty hunting! My eight-year-old daughter, surely a likely "new player" as required by the business and the ten-year development plan, enjoyed that one. She's shot the barrels several times, and was disappointed it has now vanished.

 

[JYD75]

I recently bought a second account so that I could start again with a new commander with his own backstory without having to kill my main account save.

I started just before the weekend, spent a fair amount of time playing the game and running missions, am now in a decently kitted out T6 with a lightly modded FSD drive and on my first tour 1500LY out of the bubble.

Yes, the beginning is not easy and, even with the experience I already have in my main account, I managed to die twice.

But I don't think they need to fast track it or "give" a new player missions worth a million or more.

Possibly a better solution would be for them to give a new player a sidey that is a bit better kitted out, maybe with a shade more jump range.

There is so much to see and do in the game and you do not need a 250m credit ship to do it in. It all depends on what your focus is.

And just for reference, my main account has about 650 hours of game time on it and no, I do not have a Cutter. I have around 600m in Credits and a couple of ships.

I know the Cutter will come one day, but why rush towards an imaginary goal post when there are other things to do?

 

[Ddraig]

True the game is not easy for new players. But is a lot easier that what was before.
I started playing when the rewards for any mission were meager 4k credits, and it took me a while to have enough resources to buy an Adder. There was not any way to make millions as it is now. I didn't even know that you could select routes to make use of your full jump range instead of the economic ones, and like that I went to Sol and took me a good while only to discover I was not allowed to enter. And I think those were the best moments Elite ever offered me. Everything was a discovery, something new and a difficulty to overcome, and any prospect of big ships felt like a far away dream.

I liked that Elite didn't hold your hand, and totally despise the new guided first mission tutorial. Heck I remember I laughed hard when the first time I forgot to lift my landing gear and had to swim in the control list for the key to do it.

However I do understand that the game is a business and to stay there it needs new players, and I have seen changes happening in many ways towards that end in the latest big patches, including the ability that you can get a lot of money early in the game making several of the small ships irrelevant for progression.

Maybe I am what you can call old school type of gamer.

 

[Certacito]

I set out to enjoy the game as I saw it and shortly after seeing one for the first time, decided that I would really like to own a Python. Not because it did anything other than "looking good". I ambled along doing my own thing but all the time, in the back of my head I had this Python. In the process of plodding and enjoying, I found a number of things I really enjoyed doing and made a career out of getting paid for doing them. The Python, like all good things, came to them that wait, and as I thought, it was a nice ship. I was satisfied with that and set about enjoying stuff I hadn't tried before and found some other things to add to the list of things I had done previously. I started in March 15, play and average of 4 nights a week for about 3-4 hours (I am away from home in the week), and have managed through normal enjoyment and work (+time admittedly) to amass a list of ships that I love. I have 6 of them (Fight Night Eagle, Racing Viper MkIII, AspX, FDL, Annie, Corvette and of course my Python is still there) all have a different purpose and I am as excited about flying them today as I was when I got them. I have no end state, owning the biggest ship in the game is not an end game, but merely another achievement. The moral of the story, have fun, do what you like and the experience should guide you, ships, credits and stuff just comes as a side effect of doing your thing. I understand the OP, I get it I really do, it is tough when you just start out with a stock sidey and a few groats in your pocket, but it is not a race and I am sure that the majority of people know this may be the case when they start out.

 

[kaboki]

Well I found out that getting the big ships isnt all that exiting and think its way to easy to make credits. I was tired of the millions and the uber ships, so i deleted my save. I dont go for the big payouts anymore, I found a role i like, and that is being in my cobra mk 3 doing piracy and slave/narcotics trading and trying to influence the bgs, the pay isnt really that good, but I earn decent money and im having fun. Deleting the save i had was the best decision i ever made in elite...

I sometimes go back to the noob areas and seing all these dozens mostly harmless commanders, im not so worried, seems too me this game has a steady influx of new players everyday. The noob areas never dry up so to speak. Im more worried that giving the noobs acces to everthing too fast is gonna get them bored alot faster.

 

[Raptoyd]

Weekly Space Lottery sponsored by the ship builders Core Dynamics, Lakon, etc. where one player wins a different ship each week and the cash to repurchase it once. Everything from a Cobra to Beluga and so on. Just a thought might keep some interest from the newbies those with 1B+ credits would have no reason to enter these drawings. Sell tickets using credits at most stations.