Is it not amazing how people could think this was "irrelevant", and not the same as killing 10000 rats. This is the level of intellectual dishonesty you are up against. Just look at the original post, a whole massive post doing it's best to miss the point.
Any grind, is in your mind.
- Thread starter shadragon
- Start date
Is it not amazing how people could think this was "irrelevant", and not the same as killing 10000 rats. This is the level of intellectual dishonesty you are up against. Just look at the original post, a whole massive post doing it's best to miss the point.
repped.
Collecting ten thousand bear's arses.
Sorry, felt that needed to be said, given that it was a take on fetch quests.
How can that be true?
ED / FE2
Galaxy recreated
Landing on planets
Multiple space station types
Galactic map very similar
Almost same choice of ships (less in ED)
Same type of missions
Similar bulletin board
To me, ED feels way more like FE2 and not like Elite the original. The only thing I can think of (baring in mind the original elite was decades ago lol) is the flying. Even dockings super easy in ED
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I think saying grind is in the mind is an overly simplistic conclusion that has aims for furthering a personal view of what the game is and how people should play it.
There is no definition for how the game is to be played. If you come here wanting the biggest ship as fast as possible that is a totally legitimate reason to have purchased the game and to want to play it. The cost of achieving that goal (specifically the promptness) requires grind, trade grind, to be specific. If a player is not willing to accept the grind then, in my opinion, it is time to reevaluate their goals for the game. Grind is the cost of doing anything quickly in Elite and I don't believe that will ever change nor should.
Personally, I didn't do any grind for the first year of playing the game. I just did whatever I found interesting that day and slowly worked my way up to a T9. Once there I did start doing trade grind but mostly because I enjoyed flying the space cow into stations and maximizing my profits. My goals with the game aren't really prone to grind as my goal is just to enjoy what I have, asset increases are just a bonus to me.
There is one aspect of ED that I find inescapably grindy, no matter how special your noggin is. That is Navy Rank progression. It is a simple gate to ship access and provides close to zero additional gameplay or reward for achievement. I think even the devs recognize that isn't good enough.
There is no definition for how the game is to be played. If you come here wanting the biggest ship as fast as possible that is a totally legitimate reason to have purchased the game and to want to play it. The cost of achieving that goal (specifically the promptness) requires grind, trade grind, to be specific. If a player is not willing to accept the grind then, in my opinion, it is time to reevaluate their goals for the game. Grind is the cost of doing anything quickly in Elite and I don't believe that will ever change nor should.
Personally, I didn't do any grind for the first year of playing the game. I just did whatever I found interesting that day and slowly worked my way up to a T9. Once there I did start doing trade grind but mostly because I enjoyed flying the space cow into stations and maximizing my profits. My goals with the game aren't really prone to grind as my goal is just to enjoy what I have, asset increases are just a bonus to me.
There is one aspect of ED that I find inescapably grindy, no matter how special your noggin is. That is Navy Rank progression. It is a simple gate to ship access and provides close to zero additional gameplay or reward for achievement. I think even the devs recognize that isn't good enough.
I'm not quite understanding all of the "But you do it to yourself, re: grind" arguments.
People are not doing it to themselves. FDev's design is poorly implemented and they've proven that they're in favor of the grind and the time sink over and over again with the nerfing of various high paying mission loops. Look at where we are right now. Whatever algorithm they use to define mission payouts obviously thinks hauling a couple hundred metric tons of poop across 400ly of open space should pay well, but it paid too well according to the forum and they can't just nerf that site because every mission in the game is generated from the same key source.. so they nerf the source and now we're back to 10k payouts on 200 ton missions within the bubble.
Does anyone else remember when the cost of rearming and refueling made bounty hunting with anything other than lasers incredibly cost prohibitive? C'mon now, kill a wanted 'Dangerous' Anaconda and you get 3500 credits, but the 800 rounds of MC ammo you used up costs 5k to replace and that scratch on your hull? Yeah, gonna need you to sign over your first born child as a down payment.
Saying that people who complain about the grind are forcing it on themselves is ridiculous. Frontier has proven almost a dozen times that they aren't particularly skilled when it comes to balancing out the gameplay elements of Elite. So rather than actually take a whack at fixing things for the better, they throw a massive bandaid over the problem and let it be. I'm sure it will get fixed eventually but they've also got to keep producing new content if they want to maintain a decent playerbase so it will likely be a back burner item for quite awhile.
It's not surprising though and aside from this post you will rarely ever see me say anything about it because they're not a AAA producer of video games and lack the experience of the larger companies who have been doing this for over a decade (This being massive multiplayer environments, or attempts at such). I don't hold them at fault above all others because this is like a freshman entry into the world of online gaming for them, at least from my humble perspective. What they've provided so far is gorgeous.. Now they just need to finish it up and add some of that needed depth to their "living" galaxy.
People are not doing it to themselves. FDev's design is poorly implemented and they've proven that they're in favor of the grind and the time sink over and over again with the nerfing of various high paying mission loops. Look at where we are right now. Whatever algorithm they use to define mission payouts obviously thinks hauling a couple hundred metric tons of poop across 400ly of open space should pay well, but it paid too well according to the forum and they can't just nerf that site because every mission in the game is generated from the same key source.. so they nerf the source and now we're back to 10k payouts on 200 ton missions within the bubble.
Does anyone else remember when the cost of rearming and refueling made bounty hunting with anything other than lasers incredibly cost prohibitive? C'mon now, kill a wanted 'Dangerous' Anaconda and you get 3500 credits, but the 800 rounds of MC ammo you used up costs 5k to replace and that scratch on your hull? Yeah, gonna need you to sign over your first born child as a down payment.
Saying that people who complain about the grind are forcing it on themselves is ridiculous. Frontier has proven almost a dozen times that they aren't particularly skilled when it comes to balancing out the gameplay elements of Elite. So rather than actually take a whack at fixing things for the better, they throw a massive bandaid over the problem and let it be. I'm sure it will get fixed eventually but they've also got to keep producing new content if they want to maintain a decent playerbase so it will likely be a back burner item for quite awhile.
It's not surprising though and aside from this post you will rarely ever see me say anything about it because they're not a AAA producer of video games and lack the experience of the larger companies who have been doing this for over a decade (This being massive multiplayer environments, or attempts at such). I don't hold them at fault above all others because this is like a freshman entry into the world of online gaming for them, at least from my humble perspective. What they've provided so far is gorgeous.. Now they just need to finish it up and add some of that needed depth to their "living" galaxy.
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I see the word "Grind" and I read it as "Work"
As in "You have to Work for what you want."
Or "Hard Work is its own reward."
We play the part of a starship commander, that's our job - our "grind".
As in "You have to Work for what you want."
Or "Hard Work is its own reward."
We play the part of a starship commander, that's our job - our "grind".
I have not confessed anything. I am not switching what I do because I get bored. You keep putting words into my mouth. I have not said any of that.
And yes I have mentioned stuff. As I said the game mechanics are not that bad in themselves, yes I have agreed they can all be expanded on. My opinion it is the reasons why we do the gameplay that needs to be addressed. All we do is do stuff for credits, rep and influence.
We need more compelling reasons to why we go trading or carrying passengers or go bounty hunting or go exploring. The basic activities are not that bad and in general fine, just give me good reasons why I am doing them. That is what needs improving in my eyes.
Funny, I bought the game to have fun. Do you know what a fun is? Have you had one recently?
Yeah, no, just no. I already work a 50 hour work week. No thanks on having another "job" in the video game I play for entertainment with friends on the nights my kids aren't up and trying to escape the house at 10pm.
LoL. And there you have it.
You know, I'm willing to say I dont have the patience of Job....yet some people are NOT willing to admit that this game is grindy ...
OK but then why make the price so high then? The game imposes the price on the thing you want. I didn't want to be in a sidewinder at all, or the adder I then upgraded too. I got the eagle begrudingly and found I enjoyed it but it was a little bit too weak but it got me my Viper A graded. Now afaic the Viper is entry level ship and with that it's not a long journey to get other comparable ships.
If you're about to turn around and tell me ED is not about your own spaceship I don't know what to say. Owning and flying the ship you want IS the game because the crap game around it is under par and 30 years out of date.
Context (what I quoted & reacted to):
"It's just not true or we'd have true Newtonian flight like the original games and not a trumped up arcade flight mechanic with artificial limits on speed and maneuverability to keep things equal."
My comment was indeed a reference to the flight models.
Se my other reply to you as to what i think the problems are within the game.
And I have never watched TV when playing. I pretty much keep myself buy when in SC.
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Perhaps this is all due to an identity issue that allows people of different playstyles to collide over that which isn't clearly defined
There are players like myself, who enjoy repetitive grind, slowly gaining strength and skill. People who like Diablo and The Division, running the same "dungeons" to pick up gear and XP.
Then there are those expecting a more adventure based experience with, more or less, linear progression mixed with milestones testing skill and checking prerequisites.
The issue here is that I don't think ED caters to either set completely. Looting is...basic at best with no unique gear drops, relying completely on crafting rolls (locked behind DLC, btw). On the other side, module collection/upgrades are a simple exchange of credits. There is no skill check to progression.
The joy of space and flight are the only constants. For me, that is enough for now as I have a strong internal dialogue. However, everyone should recognize why many people would become frustrated with this system. IMO, strong commitment to either style would be a better step forward.
There are players like myself, who enjoy repetitive grind, slowly gaining strength and skill. People who like Diablo and The Division, running the same "dungeons" to pick up gear and XP.
Then there are those expecting a more adventure based experience with, more or less, linear progression mixed with milestones testing skill and checking prerequisites.
The issue here is that I don't think ED caters to either set completely. Looting is...basic at best with no unique gear drops, relying completely on crafting rolls (locked behind DLC, btw). On the other side, module collection/upgrades are a simple exchange of credits. There is no skill check to progression.
The joy of space and flight are the only constants. For me, that is enough for now as I have a strong internal dialogue. However, everyone should recognize why many people would become frustrated with this system. IMO, strong commitment to either style would be a better step forward.
Exactly.
Everything can become a grind if it has to be done without wanting to do it.
Or take skiing.
Some like to glide down the slopes on skies, but don't like to hike up the mountain. If they had to they would call climbing the mountain a "grind".
Some would decide that they don't want to ski because the "grind" is to much.
Some would love skiing so much that they accept the need of hiking up the mountain.
Others love hiking up mountains and don't understand why anybody would not like it.
Others would say it's part of the experience.
Others would complain about the "grind" and invent lifts.
Others would complain that using lifts is just a "I want all and I want it now" attitude and those who want that should play an other game…
Agreed, repped. I doubt, however, that FD will ever commit to anything remotely that game-changing, sadly.
Except the mountain doesn't feature a moving walkway that's slowly going the opposite direction you're trying to climb.
Nor does it include the guy at the top telling you that you don't have the qualifications to ski said slope so you've go to go back and redo what you've already done.
The mountain is just there, it's quantifiable in the fact that you know roughly how long it will take you to traverse the distance from base camp to your kick off point, you know what you're getting into and the only random element really comes down to which socks you chose to wear and how to go about pulling your wedgie as you walk without the cute girl behind you getting a giggle out of it.
Nor does it include the guy at the top telling you that you don't have the qualifications to ski said slope so you've go to go back and redo what you've already done.
The mountain is just there, it's quantifiable in the fact that you know roughly how long it will take you to traverse the distance from base camp to your kick off point, you know what you're getting into and the only random element really comes down to which socks you chose to wear and how to go about pulling your wedgie as you walk without the cute girl behind you getting a giggle out of it.
Maybe FDEV is trying to do something new and people are just resistant to the change or just don't buy it as a workable system.
Its a not-MMO-MMO, adventure-ish space sim-like
LOL
IDK, I think it is fun but I also walk from city to cit in Skyrim.
I wanted to talk about that too but felt I was blabbering on a bit much but you didn't answer my question. Given trading as the only game - you wouldn't play Elite. You would get bored of it you pretty much said that. I'm taking that further to more extremes to make the point they're all pretty boring aaaaannndddd....
as you said, meaningless - which is another massive issue.
When I play 7 days to die, I'm mining with a pickaxe. It takes hours, you chop away blocks and then u might hit a vain. Once you hit the vein you're there for hours more. This is so much fun because of these reasons
1. It helps out your friends and your base
2. it gives you different ores which make different recipes
3. Veins go off randomly meaning you have to chase them.
4. You need to shore up your mine.
5. Add platforms and steps
6. all this leads to planning your mine as it can collapse.
So in a very simple mechanic, you have meaning - it will help you survive. You have planning, so you need to think. You have exploration and discovery as well as variation.
ED definitely needs so depth to it
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oh, sorry! In that case, yes lol