So I have to ask, what if you adapt to that new curve, and new stuff? jitter doesn't matter as much on short range for example? or if you roll a lot of jitter, don't take it? a lot of the times something that may look useless on the surface, can be very useful, just about discovering the tactic.
So I have to ask, what if you adapt to that new curve, and new stuff? jitter doesn't matter as much on short range for example? or if you roll a lot of jitter, don't take it? a lot of the times something that may look useless on the surface, can be very useful, just about discovering the tactic.
If you don't care about subsystem targeting, you can deal with lower levels of jitter. On the other hand you find that smaller ships do want to target subsystems, and larger ships can be kept at longer range where the jitter is more of a problem.
As for the range curve - it's a fairly extreme example, because it's the strongest example of an offset stat ruining a mod. You're gaining perhaps a few percent damage to be doing substantially lower damage at any given range.
Only time it would be a benefit is if you can keep your face stroking their ship as you fire
So you are for example also saying that close range fighting is simply a no go, and fragmentation cannon's are worthless? because my experience tells me differently.If you don't care about subsystem targeting, you can deal with lower levels of jitter. On the other hand you find that smaller ships do want to target subsystems, and larger ships can be kept at longer range where the jitter is more of a problem.
As for the range curve - it's a fairly extreme example, because it's the strongest example of an offset stat ruining a mod. You're gaining perhaps a few percent damage to be doing substantially lower damage at any given range.
Only time it would be a benefit is if you can keep your face stroking their ship as you fire
*scratches head* uh...no?
Then I do not understand the point you tried to make with jitter, if you are in a targets face, jitter within normal ranges will not matter at such close ranges?
So if you have an in your face ship setup, it wouldn't matter as much?
Try it for yourself and see. If jitter was slight, say making it so you miss the module but can still target the ship, that would be one thing. What you get is something else entirely. The effect is even worst on fixed weapons. For some reason gimballed and Turreted ameliorate the effect somewhat, but you can literally miss a T9 at short range with jitter from a level 5 SRB upgrade. It's kind of shocking. Maybe you should try it and see. Put on an effect with jitter on a fixed weapon just for kicks and you'll get it. Frags are great because they spray. At short range you are almost guaranteed to hit your mark. Not so with a non spray, jittering weapon. If you don't believe us, try it. I've wasted some decent materials early on because I underestimated the drawbacks from jitter.
It's really that simple:
- short range blaster comes with a good damage boost at the price of massive disadvantages. (Range and speed. While cannons indeed have no damage dropoff, 50% lower range and reduced projectile speed hurt them a lot. )
- overcharged comes with a higher damage boost at basically no disadvantage.
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Speak about "balanced" modificatins...
- short range blaster comes with a good damage boost at the price of massive disadvantages. (Range and speed. While cannons indeed have no damage dropoff, 50% lower range and reduced projectile speed hurt them a lot. )
- overcharged comes with a higher damage boost at basically no disadvantage.
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Speak about "balanced" modificatins...
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yes, it is a bit shocking, that i'm running the same modification on all four hardpoints of a dbs now... 2* overcharged small cannons, 1* overcharged MCs, 1* overcharged pulses.
before 2.2. it were 4 different modifications: high capacity missiles on a small rack, shortrange blaster beam, overcharged MC and focussed pulse.
personally i think overcharged need get jitter at G5.
I would go a different way with overcharged. But explaining that would derail the thread and i think i already stated it elsewhere. So, i guess i can skip it.
can you throw me a link? I'm very interested about possible solutions.
The trade-offs just aren't there for short range if you look at the numbers they simple don't work. Short range gets 20-39% damage but more draw/heat less integrity (all pretty irrelevant on a kinetic wep) but can get -75 to -50% range, -75% range on a cannon would make it borderline unusable even at 500m your talking projectiles moving at 150-200m/s.
Overcharged gets 29-35% damage but also increased fire rate with zero downsides for cannons.
If you choose short range over overcharged for cannons you cannot pretend you are doing anything other than deliberately choosing a worse weapon
, realistically short range needs a substantial buff anyway as its negatives are enormous.In relation to your previous post too, frags are fantastic close range weapons, turning your cannons into exceptionally bad frags is not a fantastic close range weapon
. I think if you checked your damage done with a weapon in a series of encounters you'd find that unmodded cannons outperformed short ranged ones this isn't a piloting style issue, its an fundamental flaw with the stat buffs the engineers provide..
Hmm, interesting. Now that i am looking for it, i can't find that posting any more. I guess i must've written it in the beta-Forums which are not available any more. But as you asked for it and since it is your thread, i dare to re-write it here.
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Anyway, my line of thought is along with what Derath also just wrote. Give the big damage buffs to the short range blaster, after all you sacrifice a lot by installing this modification. In contrast, i see two possible paths for overcharged:
1. Overcharged should loose the increase of firing speed and have capacitor draw increase as much as damage does. It would still be an upgrade, as it could still do more damage in a shorter time window than the non-modified weapon, but it would not at the same time be more energy efficient than the unmodified weapon. For energy weapons capacitor limitations would slow firepower down, ballistic weapons are not affected negatively in any significant way. So for the omnipresent MC build it would still be a flat upgrade, for an energy based build it might be the encouragement to bring a more diverse mix of weapons. [Drawback: this would push people even more to multicannons into their setups. I don't have a solution for that yet, short of a massive rework of power consumption all over the weapons. ]
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2. What you also wrote: scale up jitter with the grade of a weapon being overcharged, instead of decreasing it with higher grades. This suggestion has one huge advantage: it affects all weapon types equally. No matter if you are using ballistic or energy weapons, the jitter (which i still would rather call "spread" as in-game term) would have the very same effect, the inherent advantage for MCs would be eliminated. But i still dislike this idea, as there is only one good way for pilots to deal with jitter/spread: get closer to the target.
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So if option two is used, short range blaster and overcharged are just two flavours of the same thing: more damage at the price of having to get closer to the target. I'd rather have overcharged as the "does not Change combat range" option, which makes jitter/spread not the way to go. But as it comes with little to no disadvantages, it should also come with less damage than the counterpart which buys its damage by accepting severe drawbacks.
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