Why Elite's riddles and story do not work for me

[-Joe]

I'm back Joyless thread readers. Good news the thread has cheered up a bit. Notorious anti-Elite posters here yesterday, some of em have been saying the same nego stuff on and off since Feb 2015.

I still think the puzzles Elite have given us are great. I think the FD staff should be praised for good work they've done in making interesting puzzles.
I like that groups like Cannon have solved many of them and do not feel left out because I didn't solve all or any of the puzzles myself. I am happy for the people that solved the puzzles not envious and bitter.
Frankly I would much rather FD set the puzzles/agenda than some dominating long term player group guild using in game tools.

and lastly I think the alien site puzzle is a machine waiting to be activated by a group of co-operating SRV players.

 

[xdeath]

I'm back Joyless thread readers.

Who are you? Again?

 

[Archvillain]

Haven't seen many people asking for the removal of anything.

Just the addition of some actual in game mechanics for finding and doing things.

I'm not sure there is a workable way to not get less that way - FDev could either waste thousands of dev hours re-inventing the wheel and developing their own complex open-ended signals-analysis software tools (or whatever) to jam into the game, at the expense of bugs going unfixed and new features not finished, to allow someone to have an FDev-blessed tool in the menus instead of downloading an existing tool from somewhere else that has had an entire dev team and millions of dollars developing it for years, or alternately... FDev could build quicker narrower tools and abandon attempts at puzzles that benefit from the more open-ended / sophisticated analysis of real-world tools and stick to the more gamey puzzles that can be solved with more gamey tools that games everywhere are already full of.

Either way (and at any point inbetween) it seems to me that we would get less.

 

[Drelthar]

I'm not sure there is a workable way to not get less that way - FDev could either waste thousands of dev hours re-inventing the wheel and developing their own complex open-ended signals-analysis software tools (or whatever) to jam into the game, at the expense of bugs going unfixed and new features not finished, to allow someone to have an FDev-blessed tool in the menus instead of downloading an existing tool from somewhere else that has had an entire dev team and millions of dollars developing it for years, or... FDev could build quicker narrower tools and abandon attempts at puzzles that benefit from more sophisticated analysis and real-world tools and stick to the more gamey puzzles that can be solved with more gamey tools that games everywhere are already full of.

Either way (and at any point inbetween) it seems to me that we would get less.

Not really, use the many mechanics already in game. Link them together. The same can be said for the missions we currently have.

I'd vastly prefer the dev time was spent on adding mechanics into the game we have than adding some of the headline features being touted

 

[Archvillain]

Not really, use the many mechanics already in game. Link them together. The same can be said for the missions we currently have.

I'd vastly prefer the dev time was spent on adding mechanics into the game we have than adding some of the headline features being touted

If you limit the scope of puzzles to only the types that can be solved by linking together existing game mechanics, then we are getting less. Right now there are sometimes puzzles that are not limited in scope that way and for many of us that is fantastic.

It's a feature that very very few computer games offer, and this earns Elite worldwide headlines and free press.

Yes we should definitely have your puzzles that cleverly use existing mechanics and don't need anything not in the simulator, but we should also keep the kind of not-so-gamey puzzles that draw on broader expertise and resources, closer to how real-world discoveries do.
Elite should continue to offer both

 

[Drelthar]

If you limit the scope of puzzles to only the types that can be solved by linking together existing game mechanics, then we are getting less. Right now there are sometimes puzzles that are not limited in scope that way and for many of us that's fantastic.
Yes we should definitely have your puzzles that don't need anything not in the simulator, but we should also keep the kind of not-so-gamey puzzles that draw on broader expertise and resources, closer to how real-world discoveries do.
Elite should continue to offer both

I entirely agree! and that's been my point for several pages, as have most of the people posting here that say the puzzles aren't working for them.

 

[Starstrydur]

IF you could do it ingame that wouldnt make it fun and engaging. Dont you know they only let time sinks and grind fests into the product?

Ah a profound statement. There is grindy pointless elements to the game. many have said this. However all interpret activities differently. One mans garbage is another's gold.

So it sounds as though you do not appreciate the game. Do you even play the game then? It sounds like you are only interested in the out of game puzzle aspect. I can see how this would create a heavy bias toward the puzzles.

There are many parts of the game that are a testament to the ability of FD. The flight model is very good. The large galaxy is good. The planet landing activities are a good new foundation to build upon. Why do you assume that good exploration mechanics cannot be created?

I think I can see the reason. If you do not like the game the way it is, then why would you think that an interesting discovery mechanic could interest you.

Unfortunately, What others find fun in the game you do not. But please do not stop FD from making game play interesting for those who like to play the game.

Over and over the puzzle players object to in game play and favor out of game play. I will say it again, have ho fear, the out of game puzzles can continue alongside in game discovery mechanics for all the players that feel left behind by the out of game stuff.

 

[Starstrydur]

You are quite mistaken; I care hugely about immersion. It's much more immersive for these puzzles to require solving in a real-world way rather than gamey push-a-button-beepity-beep CSI-style whatever.

In reality science and discovery is done by people. Archaeology / treasure-hunting boats in the real world carry as much scientific instrumentation as they possibly can (or can afford), yet a lot of the work is still done on-shore, and whether on-shore or on the boat, a lot of the work is done with pens and pencils, books, computers, studying, etc. The work done "out in the field" in the boat and by instruments is only one part of the equation, and it's great that Elite sometimes offers a broader game experience to those that want it, in addition to offering a ton of entirely-in-game experiences to those who the experience to stay on the ship.

Elite offers both, thus catering to more people. There is no reason to offer less.


For perspective, I use a HOTAS and pedals (and more) so my ship has a real physical presence; my desk/battlestation is the bridge/cockpit of my ship. Anything I can do from my "battlestation" is something I am doing in my ship's cockpit and therefore is inside the game (for me). That includes pen and paper, books, computers, refreshments, etc. Are you familiar with a pilot's kneeboard? Pilots use them as mini work-desks on their lap while they fly their planes. For me personally, it is more immersive to have something like a kneeboard real and on my real leg, with the interface being a real pen, rather than a kneeboard simulated on the screen that I can only bizarrely interact with via... a joystick?! A mouse? This is why puzzles using real tools and real knowledge in (vaguely) real ways are more immersive for me. (It's also because puzzles using real tools are slightly more likely to reward real study and knowledge which is more satisfying to me than yet more rewarding of my already-over-indulged gamey skills )

Do you play exclusively in VR? I can understand that would make some cockpit activities more unwieldy. I plan to move to VR, but I think I have some solutions that will work for me to get the best of both worlds.

OK. you see out of game puzzles as not immersion breaking and you feel like you are directly involved with the story lines.

But can't you see how others might see the out of game stuff as not part of the game and feel like they are disconnected from the discoveries and story lines?

 

[Starstrydur]

I'm not sure there is a workable way to not get less that way - FDev could either waste thousands of dev hours re-inventing the wheel and developing their own complex open-ended signals-analysis software tools (or whatever) to jam into the game, at the expense of bugs going unfixed and new features not finished, to allow someone to have an FDev-blessed tool in the menus instead of downloading an existing tool from somewhere else that has had an entire dev team and millions of dollars developing it for years, or alternately... FDev could build quicker narrower tools and abandon attempts at puzzles that benefit from the more open-ended / sophisticated analysis of real-world tools and stick to the more gamey puzzles that can be solved with more gamey tools that games everywhere are already full of.

Either way (and at any point inbetween) it seems to me that we would get less.

All of the people that feel disconnected, left out,in the dark, flying around blind frustration. They already have much less. Not willing to compromise? Try to empathize a little, there are more people involved in this than the small cannon crowd.

 

[Esso]

The way ED is going here is really really great and unique. Hard puzzles that takes hundreds of people weeks to solve. And using almost every possible trick in the book.

This is unique with ED. And if you dont like it, dont do it

It does take hundreds of people weeks to solve, you are right. What you are forgetting is that while these two hundred are solving it, the rest of us grind. While 1% is enjoying the story, the mysteries, the thrill of the chase - and THOUSANDS of others log on, grind some RES's or get off with a passenger mission or two and then log off. If not for the great mysteries thread, i would not have a clue what is going on. Galnet doesnt count either, its just a bulletin board with pre-approved messages.

What is unique with ED is that they have not thought of any way to bring players together, no guild or clan tools. What is unique about ED is that the devs cater the core of the game to

...hundreds of people...

while the rest of us have nothing but grinding to do.

P.S. Dont like it dont play is a real cheap cop-out when it comes to a game we all love. I paid for the game, it has great potential. I might not like great many things about this game, but i do enjoy many others. If i would follow advice of every dunce like yourself, i would miss out on a great game. Instead i will play it, i will raom the forums and reddit posts. I will voice my opinions and with enough support and others voicing theirs the game gets better and more enjoyable for the rest of the "peasants" that constitute 99% of the player-base. These mysteries used to be an easter egg, a distraction for the talented and the gifted. Since they got alot of press attention for the game FDev decided to turn the entire game into a game of Clue. No thanks, i am not about to become a scientist just to play my games.

And if you think you feel excluded now, just wait until major pieces of plot are solved entirely in secret, without a thread on the forums, and all we hear is a galnet post a week later, announcing a winner.

This is ALREADY LITERALLY HAPPENING! Right. Now. Like, seriously. Major pieces of plot are being solved and unveiled to precious few (an Elite if you will), while the rest of us diddle our thumbs waiting for the next DLC so we finally have something new to do. Why did it become ok for FDev to hitch their ENTIRE blimmin' story arc on EASTER EGG HUNTS?!? What? I told about this to my friends who dont play ED and they laughed. Ive been trying to convince them to try ED for ages, probably telling them this was not a great idea, but i wanted an unbiased and unafilliated opinion.

I love easter eggs, i find them quirky and interesting. Even more so when i can find one myself. I dont mind others finding them because i understand i dont have all the skillsets required to find them (none of the skillsets actually). Easter eggs are a side-show, a disctraction for those who dont feel challenged enough. When they become the main carrier for the entire game to move on and progress the story i take a huge issue with that.

Essentially i paid for this game (TWICE, because Horizons), so a privileged group of know-it-alls can enjoy a game i thought i am buying for myself? What kind of logic is that? Seriously.

 

[Esso]

DELETE
Merged with above.


P.S. We cant delete our own posts?

 

[xdeath]

-snip-

Yeah, I'm a member of the group of players you are referring to and I have to agree. A lot of what has been added has been blatant pandering to our group. Which, normally, would be fine in small doses, but this update has been a bit over the top.

We are a popular player group, for sure, but we are relatively small. Last I checked maybe around 1500 members, not all of them active. And a handful of those do the actual puzzle solving/location finding, though many do participate.

I think we have, maybe and this is a generous estimate, 20-50 prominent members.

Goes to show how exclusive some of this content gets.

 

[Esso]

Yeah, I'm a member of the group of players you are referring to and I have to agree. A lot of what has been added has been blatant pandering to our group. Which, normally, would be fine in small doses, but this update has been a bit over the top.

We are a popular player group, for sure, but we are relatively small. Last I checked maybe around 1500 members, not all of them active. And a handful of those do the actual puzzle solving/location finding, though many do participate.

I think we have, maybe and this is a generous estimate, 20-50 prominent members.

Goes to show how exclusive some of this content gets.

Exactly. And you said yourself a few pages back that most if not all of these discoveries are essentially completed by one or two people, the few hundred others from the Threadnought contribute with ideas and essentially ride the wave those two create.

 

[akaliel]

Been following this thread and I have to agree with most of you. Me and my son both have accounts and play together, but since we made some credits and had done most of the gameplay many many times over, we are eager to explore the mysteries. But they make them so incredibly difficult, requiring crypto tools and sound analyzers. We're not experts, we can't participate in the hunt. And so now we play elite by not playing it. Twice a day I check the forums and see if anything new was figured out. If there is we'll log in and go check it out. There's no mystery in it because people will have already reported everything about the site.

When we found the crashed alien ship I was excited. But half way to planet I read that there was nothing actually there. Nothing to scan, nothing to pick up. Nothing. So we went back to Sol.

When we scan planets we should have sensors that detect anomaly's, and from there we should have to narrow down the location until we find it. Right now we have to hope to find a station that may but probably won't have an encrypted message that leads there. It's so disjointed. And so exclusive. Just not fun.

 

[Sech]

I LOVE that puzzles need to be solved outside the game because that's exactly how real science puzzles are tackled - you go out and get the data in the field, then you bring it back and work on it in the lab, and no one person will have the all the knowledge and equipment to do every part of analysis, so you collaborate with others.

It's just like NASA. It's just like archaeology.

This game allows us to create and use real-world labs to solve puzzles as if they were real-world discoveries.
Elite offers plenty of entirely-in-game activities, but this little bonus extra side of Elite is above and beyond what most other games offer - they should absolutely build on science-simulation gameplay and do more of it.

(Just so long as the puzzles CAN be solved - none of that early unsolvable-until-we-update-the-game rubbish. Incomplete teaser garbage just punishes people for caring and teaches us not to bother. Finding Jaques was an example of doing it right because it was legitimately in the game just waiting to be found by anyone, not removed and impossible to find and added back in as some story event)

No other game has done? Tons of games have done altered reality puzzles and tied them to small tidbits of content.
The problem is Fdev is tying huge import pieces of the story to these silly puzzles. There's a reason why every game up to this point has done this in quests that can be completed for everyone and releases these things in patches... Sure, you can have a pat on the back for the first guy to solve it but everyone should be able to experience the "quest" from start to finish.
With the way it's currently structured that just isn't possible. It's a bad design...you guys all know it and that's why the player numbers are so unbearably low.
They've tried three times now to get this mission pay-outs correct and failed. They're worse than ever before. I'm really simply just starting to lose faith in Fdev and their ability as game developers honestly. I'm sure they'll get it eventually but I don't have the time to wait around years to see that happen.

- - - Updated - - -

Been following this thread and I have to agree with most of you. Me and my son both have accounts and play together, but since we made some credits and had done most of the gameplay many many times over, we are eager to explore the mysteries. But they make them so incredibly difficult, requiring crypto tools and sound analyzers. We're not experts, we can't participate in the hunt. And so now we play elite by not playing it. Twice a day I check the forums and see if anything new was figured out. If there is we'll log in and go check it out. There's no mystery in it because people will have already reported everything about the site.

When we found the crashed alien ship I was excited. But half way to planet I read that there was nothing actually there. Nothing to scan, nothing to pick up. Nothing. So we went back to Sol.

When we scan planets we should have sensors that detect anomaly's, and from there we should have to narrow down the location until we find it. Right now we have to hope to find a station that may but probably won't have an encrypted message that leads there. It's so disjointed. And so exclusive. Just not fun.

This is the best quote I've seen and also most likely the case for 90% of the player-base.

Really gets to the point of how disappointing and empty the game is...

It's sad but I think I'll be done playing too now that the passenger missions were also nerfed to oblivion. I'm not going to risk flying around with a 20m rebuy when it could take me upwards of 10-20 hours to earn that back.

Looks like it's just waiting and watching SC at this point. Hopefully Roberts doesn't make the same mistakes.

 

[Sech]

There's a couple of us on reddit UA bombing Maia with UAs from the new crash site 1 jump away (another plan not thought out by FDev) in protest of the poor design choices made.
Hopefully it'll derail the story and force Fdev to start making different better design decisions.
If you disagree with the direction of ED feel free to join us and ruin their planned story.

 

[Esso]

There's a couple of us on reddit UA bombing Maia with UAs from the new crash site 1 jump away (another plan not thought out by FDev) in protest of the poor design choices made.
Hopefully it'll derail the story and force Fdev to start making different better design decisions.
If you disagree with the direction of ED feel free to join us and ruin their planned story.

They wanted emergent player driven gameplay. They will get it. Players will emerge and drive their plans into the ground. Count me in, this is the most cause-worthy and interesting thing to do in ED since Horizons dropped.

 

[Sech]

They wanted emergent player driven gameplay. They will get it. Players will emerge and drive their plans into the ground. Count me in, this is the most cause-worthy and interesting thing to do in ED since Horizons dropped.

Haha I guess you're right it is technically emergent gameplay.
That's funny.

 

[fieval]

How about if everyone moved to Jaques??
Or even better what if everyone moved to Sag A??
Would FD care?

Do they care about UA bombing??.
I think they will adjust and correct stations as required (depending on forum chatter...look at Jamesons, there was much wailing and gnashing of teeth. And Now?).
If it doesn't matter they will ignore it. If it matters they will adjust it.
Of course, I could be totally wrong. (I have been many, many times before!)

 

[Anthony Jones]

There is a dead man in the center of a field. He carried with him an unopened package. As he neared the center of the field, he knew he was going to die. How did he know he was going to die?

ANSWER

Spoiler

The man's parachute did not open.