Why do the devs keep destroying every form of making income?

[Rockie]

I know - this is what makes me really sad about Elite's potential. It *has* become about owning the biggest 'high-end' ships, rather than 'right ship for the job'. It wouldn't be so bad if E: D had more variety in the number of 'end-game' ships available, or more specialist ship variants.

The problem is that more expensive ships are better than their cheaper counterparts in every single way. An Anaconda is better at combat, trading, exploring, and smuggling than any ship cheaper than it. So is the Python. So is the Asp. So is the Cobra.

That's why ship prices are so inflated, it's to force players to actually spend time using the smaller ships. There is literally no other reason to use them.

 

[timbero]

Bigger doesn't mean better, never did and never will.

That's not what she said.

 

[Obnoxious_Gamer]

Well the exploration thing clearly was a bit of a joke
But mining always paid good for me, couple millions per run and that without mission.

Also not sure what engineers has to do with it, you can happily ignore it if you don't like it. And the whole "better ship" thing is confusing anyway, good ships come already at cheap prices. Bigger doesn't mean better, never did and never will.

The Anaconda is the best for pretty much everything in the game, not counting rank-locked ships (which, arguably, are only better in specific areas).

 

[xdeath]

I totally feel the same way. Frontier have created an amazing world - yet seem unable to fill it with content that actively engages with that world. Most of the gameplay is like an "overlay", that is all done through numbers and bars.

Yet there are some wonderful areas in the game, some truly epic environments! Why can't a mission trigger when I come across a non-persistent base in a POI? These needn't be complex missions, just simple procedural ones, chase down a mission target, or bring back some particular item (have these missions related to planet type and geology even).

There are tons of amazing ring systems and craters, yet we can't do anything with them. These would make great stash locations for missions. Why can't we have reconnaissance missions over some of the most gorgeous scenery in the game?

All of these amazing locations, and amazing planet generation tech - yet all the game asks us to do with it, is to move a product from A to B. Or go an target a beacon for a few seconds. The planets might just as well be empty featureless balls as far as game play is concerned. To me, it seems an immense waste.

Maybe Frontier have some plans for all of this in the future - and the current grindy and uninspired game mechanics are just placeholder...

Planets have been such a major disappointment. The tech that went into them is mind blowing, the result is amazing.


But the only real reason to visit the planet is for surface commodities and engineers.

Placeholder mechanics are fine for first release, but they need to be phased out over time. We still have placeholder mechanics(and I hope to god they are placeholder) from 1.0 that have seen no improvements.

 

[Weps]

The problem is that more expensive ships are better than their cheaper counterparts in every single way. An Anaconda is better at combat, trading, exploring, and smuggling than any ship cheaper than it. So is the Python. So is the Asp. So is the Cobra.

That's why ship prices are so inflated, it's to force players to actually spend time using the smaller ships. There is literally no other reason to use them.

Well that would be the point of different maintenance cost thresholds. For example I found myself playing in my Cobra almost exclusively since 2.2 because I'm unlocking Engineers. I could do it in the Python, but it seems cheaper to do in the Cobra in case something takes me out.

The game has been designed with bigger ships being better. Bigger ships carry more cargo. They have stronger shields and better weapons. They can equip more utilities. Maybe maneuverability could be a disadvantage, but currently it really isn't. That's the way it is and I don't think that will change, I don't see any major ship rebalance happening.

But lowering prices and increasing maintenance costs could happen. So could new maintenance mechanics. Imagine that landing an Anaconda on a planet's surface would take a toll on it's integrity. So would using orbital cruise. Then you may reconsider to take an Anaconda to do a surface mission when in the end you just need a cheap ship to carry your SRV there. Imagine you could have more crew, paid by flight hour, which would be mandatory to fill in positions on a large ship. Maybe without a drive technician aboard your ship your drives would lose integrity at a slow pace or have more random malfunctions. Imagine that there would be docking fees based on your tonnage. Then you would be less inclined to fly it all over the place and dock here and there with no real purpose.

Even without any new complex mechanics, the way wear&tear currently works is by measuring the amount of usage a ship sees, because wear&tear is affected by things such as SC, hyperjumps or combat. All the devs would need to do is slash prices and increase the wear&tear costs if they wanted to go this route, but it's obvious that a change like this is a really large pill to swallow for a playerbase accustomed to more than 1 year (how long has it been since the first Sothis / Robigo?) easy credits SPOC farming.

 

[SamSlade]

which is why I've reported back to my gaming group that we will not be moving into Elite and will instead stick with current games and wait for SC

 

[NoLiMiT]

You know the problem is not how much we earn credits... it's more how fast can i get credits for my insurance. I play ED from the beggining and have playing almost 2 years to have today my Conda. Thats not the problem, it was fun testing all sort of ships (Combat, explorer, polyvalent, small, mid and big one). The problem is that my Conda cost me 12 millions credits in insurance and i have only 24 millions left, so i have 2 times the insurance cost. Losing a ship can happend faster than you think. I failed to lose my conda twice since i have lost 50% of shield an armor in a few seconds because... of small fighter ship lol. I had to run away so fast to save 11 millions credits. Few days ago i had to play 2-3 hours to get my insurance credits. Now imagine with the poor level of earning credits how long will i play to have 11 millions to be safe in case of. And i need 500 millions at least to full upgrade my Conda. Why after 2 years of play time i still have the same amount of credits when i was flying an MKIII to gain my first million. Does the pay of missions credits not counting with your officer level anymore?

 

[True Phoenix]

Like all games that rely on "in game" currency, there is a risk that inflation (the increase of actual monetary notes, not prices) will become endemic. This then devalues the price of ships and upgrades to the extent that they become everyday purchases as we all move toward billionaire status. This then allows a race for players to upgrade to the max and everyone becomes "uber".

The attempted ED solution is to reign back the amount of cash available (in RL this is done by raising interest rates and tightening lending, most of what we use is credit, not hard cash) however as many are already multi-billionaires its a bit of a stable door, horse bolting situation.

The solution is an economic crash. You can work through the other scenarios if you wish but they don't work. Eventually you have rising asset prices to soak up the excess cash (because the cash is devalued), not everyone can play that economic game and the inevitable outcome is that participants no longer function in the economy. This snowballs until the economic model fails. You then reset (revalue, re-issue a new currency) and start again.

We are at stage 2, attempting to limit in game cash. It won't work, programmers are not economists.....

 

[Lobstris]

The problem is that more expensive ships are better than their cheaper counterparts in every single way. An Anaconda is better at combat, trading, exploring, and smuggling than any ship cheaper than it. So is the Python. So is the Asp. So is the Cobra.

That's why ship prices are so inflated, it's to force players to actually spend time using the smaller ships. There is literally no other reason to use them.

Yes, it does come down to ship capabilities and artificial level progression. There may always be 'go to'/'best' ships for a particular role. For a trader or miner, it will be the biggest box. For combat, it will be the heaviest/hardest hitter. For exploration, the biggest jump range/equipment slots.

It would be nice if that wasn't always the physically biggest ships though, or people had interest in gameplay styles because they were rewarding in- and of- themselves, beyond assessment of the credits/hour made. e.g. for smuggling, or 'recon'-type gameplay a small ship such as the DBX, Asp S or Courier could be best. For exploration, if enhanced, but small, long range drives were viable, DBX vs Asp E? Likewise, why should big ships be good for smuggling (other than having space to hide things in) - they have the biggest radar/heat/visual signatures! Why on Earth (or in space) does the Anaconda have such a light hull/huge jump range, as well as such good combat capabilities?

Or, it would be great, if there were more ships in each particular 'slot', for variety overall. e.g. in FFE, the Asp or the Constrictor or the Harris or the Harrier were all in the 'mid-range, multirole' ship class. If I wanted top end combat, I used the Asp or iCourier.

Another crucial point I think, is that in the earlier two games, smaller ships (well those above some of the airfighters) could still be damaging, if not lethal, to larger ones (unless you were really cheesy in stacking shields) one-on-one, but the larger ships cost relatively much less - being just slow, massive, boxes (and of course we had saved games...) If, in combat, manoeuvrability/countermeasures could play as much a role as 'having big guns and over-engineered shields', Vipers and other fighters could be used for what their descriptions actually suggest they should be used for, more often (yes, that's a stealth call for the big 3 ships to have gimballed weapons and their agility nerfed, to force more reliance on turrets or escorts). To be fair, 2.1/2.2 are a lot better for combat overall IMHO, a couple of vipers can actually cause issues to a big ship, if that ship hasn't been (over) engineered.

- - - Updated - - -

Like all games that rely on "in game" currency, there is a risk that inflation (the increase of actual monetary notes, not prices) will become endemic. This then devalues the price of ships and upgrades to the extent that they become everyday purchases as we all move toward billionaire status. This then allows a race for players to upgrade to the max and everyone becomes "uber".

The attempted ED solution is to reign back the amount of cash available (in RL this is done by raising interest rates and tightening lending, most of what we use is credit, not hard cash) however as many are already multi-billionaires its a bit of a stable door, horse bolting situation.

The solution is an economic crash. You can work through the other scenarios if you wish but they don't work. Eventually you have rising asset prices to soak up the excess cash (because the cash is devalued), not everyone can play that economic game and the inevitable outcome is that participants no longer function in the economy. This snowballs until the economic model fails. You then reset (revalue, re-issue a new currency) and start again.

We are at stage 2, attempting to limit in game cash. It won't work, programmers are not economists.....

If they were serious in limiting the amount of cash that players had to prevent 'everyone being uber', or inflation taking hold, why let long range haulage missions go on for so long? I agree that they desperately need to higher an economist, and reset/rebalance the economy and how missions/commodity prices are generated... ...nah! not going to happen. I imagine the wailing and gnashing of teeth would be heard on Mars.

 

[True Phoenix]

Inflation, true monetary inflation, is already endemic in the game.

The "balancing" cannot fix it.

 

[dynamicbob]

Outlets to influence minor factions via a greatly expanded BGS would be a good way to sink funds

 

[GimpstersGhost]

I wiped my save file pre 2.2 to see what the new player experience was like. I was in a Python with a net worth of 150mil pre-wipe, been playing since beta. In less than a month, playing casually, a bout 15-20hrs a week, I went from a Sidewinder to an Anaconda with a net worth of over 250mil. That's why they nerf every form of income. They need to drag out the progression ladder because there is no depth to the game to keep you interested once you get their big shiny ship and A rated modules.

 

[GilliganTX]

I wiped my save file pre 2.2 to see what the new player experience was like. I was in a Python with a net worth of 150mil pre-wipe, been playing since beta. In less than a month, playing casually, a bout 15-20hrs a week, I went from a Sidewinder to an Anaconda with a net worth of over 250mil. That's why they nerf every form of income. They need to drag out the progression ladder because there is no depth to the game to keep you interested once you get their big shiny ship and A rated modules.

There is absolutely nothing "casual" about 15-20 hours a week.

I would consider "casual" to be <6 hours a week. If I push, hard, I could probably get 15 hours in a typical work-week, MAXIMUM.

 

[o'moylan]

Just got in my Beluga to do some passengers missions. I thought to myself I hope they did not nerf it too much. WTH !!!! I enjoyed doing them alot. Time to sell. Sorry but im not doing two hours worth of missions for 50,000 cr. THAT SUCKS

 

[Slack]

All this complaining is quite funny. Even with all the so called "nerfs" you can literally earn something like a Python in a few days (in 1 day actually). Back when I started my first Python was 160hrs lol, and what's interesting is that there were no whiners like this around. The trouble is that cmdrs got spoiled with outrageous incomes and now that fdev is trying to bring some balance back, they are up in arms about it. Whaah I'm only making 4-5m/hr in my Cobra whaah... Hate to break it to you folks, but it used to take the best ship (which took you 100's of hours to acquire) to make that kind of cash. Reality is that new people have it so easy now, but I guess that's what's turning them into spoiled brats.

 

[ArchEmperor]

I remember my first Robigo smuggle run.... with my newly bought Cobra MkIII. 69 jumps to and from. All deep space unknown anarchy systems! I was constantly interdicted by pirates and police! Heart rate at 120 bpm, sweating, nervous wreck! So much adrenaline fighting all these federal dropships with superior weapons. Usually I got scanned, but one time I managed over 20 million cr in one night!

Those were the days! Never seen such excitement ever again in ED.... because some stupid nerfers only saw money money money and not the fun fun fun FUN.

 

[o'moylan]

Watch your words SLack. I did my grind way back when. I live an expensive life style now. Here's the thing the more I make the more I spend. My Vette's insurance is 33mil Cr. . I know because I just spent 99mil in the last few days. I want to have fun not worry about MONEY.

 

[GimpstersGhost]

Hell as a fly on the wall in a RES site using a Sidewinder I can still put a few shots in a python, cutter or anaconda every few minutes to rack up millions in bounty vouchers in an evening. Sidy's are OP...... Nerf....

 

[GilliganTX]

All this complaining is quite funny. Even with all the so called "nerfs" you can literally earn something like a Python in a few days (in 1 day actually). Back when I started my first Python was 160hrs lol, and what's interesting is that there were no whiners like this around. The trouble is that cmdrs got spoiled with outrageous incomes and now that fdev is trying to bring some balance back, they are up in arms about it. Whaah I'm only making 4-5m/hr in my Cobra whaah... Hate to break it to you folks, but it used to take the best ship (which took you 100's of hours to acquire) to make that kind of cash. Reality is that new people have it so easy now, but I guess that's what's turning them into spoiled brats.

Totally. Broken, unlimited rares was never a thing. Or CZ turret farming with a Cap-Ship. Never happened. Seeking Luxuries? Must have imagined it.


I took my lumps, I ran my starter-winder for weeks, no forums, just bleeding credits jumping around getting blown up a bunch. Then a friend on a car forum who played gave me a list of rares and a route. So I started working my way towards Lave, doing missions along the way, eventually got a Cobra and started running rares. For months.

I took that cobra everywhere in the bubble. Imperial Space, Alliance, Federation, running rares. Went and ran CZ's with it. made my first really decent money there. Went and undermined some Imperial fringe systems for Hudson. Decided the Cobra wasn't up to snuff.

After months of that, getting really burnt out of that ship, I got a Vulture and really hit some CZ's hard, as well as hit some undermining hard. After about a month of that I had made my first 100 Million. About that time I started looking at the forums, and wouldn't you know it, that was right before the first Robigo Nerf. So I bought an Asp and went to Robigo. Made my first run, and woke up the next morning to the new shadow delivery missions.

And Man, I ran the out of those. I thought Han-Solo mode was AWESOME. And I finally felt like I was progressing in game doing something I liked. After about a month doing that, I had enough for an Anacoda and an FDL, and enough to mostly D rate the anaconda, and A rate the FDL.

I took a break from the smuggling and really flew those two around everywhere. Lots of CG's, lots of RES hunting, a few civil wars, then I decided I wanted to try the Anaconda in a CZ.

Back to robigo, I Milked it for another billion Credits over the course of another month, occasionally taking the FDL out for some bounty hunting, as well as the Anaconda to 17 Draconis and Maia a few times.


Smuggling beer is the best - East bound and down, loaded up and truckin'.

Had enough for the battle conda. So I built it. Lots of fun, not as much as I had hoped, but still. Good to know. I'm going to give it another wack with the SLF. That sounds like a good time.

Eventually got a python and kitted it out after joining a player faction, so I could really hit some mission running with it.

Also got a second annie for exploration/long range purposes since I couldn't store my battle-conda modules anywhere.

Took that long range annie to Sothis, probably ran it for about 3 weeks off and on before FD killed that.

Robigo and Sothis were the only times I was excited about my asset progression. Everything else seemed like work, especially power play. God I wanted to claw my eyes out after two separate grinds up to rank 5.


Playing since Aug 2015, I would consider myself a regular player. Probably averaging 8 hours a week? Some none, a few times double that, at the most.

 

[Fire70]

Re the bigger ship being better issue.

All FD need to do is make it so ships can't go as fast in reverse. Even now I notice NPC's are using reverse as a valid tactic which makes it almost impossible to stay on their six in a smaller agile ship..

I would make reverse only 50% power and you would find smaller more agile ship holding their own..