The Star Citizen Thread V2.0

[Mr.Nowak]

Found some new up to date info about the amount of people working for Star Citizen.

GamesBeat: How many people do you have working on this now?

Roberts: I think at last count it was 268, between contractors and in-house. We have three internal studios – one here in L.A., one in Austin, and one in Manchester. The Manchester one my brother heads up. It was formed from the core nucleus of his team at Traveller’s Tales. Then we’re working with two external studios, one in Montreal and one in Colorado. Between the five studios, we’re all spearheading the different elements of the game.

The game’s pretty modular, so each studio’s taking the lead on one aspect. Squadron 42 is the single-player game. That’s being led out of the U.K. We’re leading space combat here in L.A. The persistent universe and planetside’s happening between Austin and Montreal. First-person shooter is happening in Colorado. It all gets integrated together, but that allows a smaller team to work on an aspect and not get overwhelmed by such an ambitious game.

Source : http://venturebeat.com/2014/06/16/w...nd-the-new-way-to-fund-aaa-games-interview/1/

 

[Kris]

They got workpower and money (last week they increased $1 mil over 6 days - crazy, crazy, crazy and this week probably another $1 mil). We have to wait and see. I belive in CIG.

(havent still pledged for SC. Waiting when i can see SQ42 and PU are more than ideas. But i try to follow development news closely)

 

[Neo-ST]

New 10 for C.
They say there's good info on flight model, I just started watching.

 

[Obsidian Ant]

What do you guys think of this video?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JS-3H7Qzc0w

It's not too hard to fly like this with the current model. I actually am starting to quite like the flight model.

In my opinion it is the weapon mechanics that are the largest issue. The gimbaled weapons either either need to autotrack, or have an easier control setup. Trying to aim, is what makes combat so jerky.

 

[Kris]

New 10 for C.
They say there's good info on flight model, I just started watching.

Yeah really good 10 for C this week. Can´t wait for more indepth post at RSI (not up yet, but CR said today, so soon there should be).

 

[fourty6to3]

New 10 for C.
They say there's good info on flight model, I just started watching.

Best 10(4)C yet. I don't like some of the answers he gave regarding the flight model, but what are you gonna do? Looks like v0.9 will be in 2-3 weeks (which means 1-2 months).

 

[psyron]

New 10 for C.
They say there's good info on flight model, I just started watching.

First time after 2 weeks that CR is admitting that there is quite a debate going on about the flight model - including manly people who have a hard time to fall in love with it.

But i didn't hear new info about the flight model. Have not the feeling that it will change.

I really try to think about how the current turret in space could be fun. But i still think that WWII dogfight as seen in ED is still the better way to go. But ok, i might be wrong. Time will show.

Edit:
"You might collid in stuff" ?!?
Is this the only reason why he think that the "decouple mode" is not the best way to go?
In space there is normally not so much stuff flying around. Therefore everyone would use it resulting in: Turret in space!

 

[fourty6to3]

Edit:
"You might collid in stuff" ?!?
Is this the only reason why he think that the "decouple mode" is not the best way to go?
In space there is normally not so much stuff flying around. Therefore everyone would use it resulting in: Turret in space!

Unless, of course, that every area that we will be going to is a "map" of some sort, and you can't actually go out into space. I don't think it will be that way, but what a slap to the face if there were boundaries like in AC.

 

[Helfix]

Best 10(4)C yet. I don't like some of the answers he gave regarding the flight model, but what are you gonna do? Looks like v0.9 will be in 2-3 weeks (which means 1-2 months).

Yeah, what he did was explain the model. We already know the model and how it works.

What he avoided was the turreting, aka ability to point your nose anywhere within two seconds.

But thats ok, MP will show it.

 

[fourty6to3]

We now have some sort of an explanation:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13951-Flight-Model-And-Input-Controls

I particularly like this line:

"And of course if you feel the mouse, with its greater precision allows for better aiming you could always fly the ship with a joystick and look with a mouse!"

That's like saying to Arma/DayZ players, "if you don't like using the 3rd person advantage of seeing around corners you could always play the game in 1st person!" - there's a reason why 1PV ONLY servers exist.

And the explanation for "Turreting" is alarmingly similar to the Straw Men that the fanboys use to argue the flight model.

A portion of the community has expressed concern about the ability for players to “turret” by going into decoupled mode and spin around to fire at their target, feeling this removes the skill level of dogfighting. I know people think this but I can assure you that in our internal multiplayer tests pretty no one exclusively decouples and “turrets” as they would get destroyed very quickly.

That's called a Straw Man and a Red Herring, because the former statement is taking turreting out of context and the latter argument is skipping the point completely.

I feel like I shouldn't have to explain to Mr. Roberts that Turreting isn't limited to being decoupled, and whether or not you die quickly when doing so isn't the issue. It's the fact that you can do it in the first place, regardless if you are decoupled or not.

 

[Aleksej]

We now have some sort of an explanation:

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13951-Flight-Model-And-Input-Controls

I particularly like this line:



That's like saying to Arma/DayZ players, "if you don't like using the 3rd person advantage of seeing around corners you could always play the game in 1st person!" - there's a reason why 1PV ONLY servers exist.

And the explanation for "Turreting" is alarmingly similar to the Straw Men that the fanboys use to argue the flight model.



That's called a Straw Man and a Red Herring, because the former statement is taking turreting out of context and the latter argument is skipping the point completely.

I feel like I shouldn't have to explain to Mr. Roberts that Turreting isn't limited to being decoupled, and whether or not you die quickly when doing so isn't the issue. It's the fact that you can do it in the first place, regardless if you are decoupled or not.

I would add one more sentence to you first CR quote as it makes everything even more alarming:

There are also some additional head look modes that haven’t been implemented yet that will allow a joystick player to take advantage of the gimbaled weapons the way the mouse player can. And of course if you feel the mouse, with its greater precision allows for better aiming you could always fly the ship with a joystick and look with a mouse!

So CR has admitted the fact that players with TrackIR or OR will be able to aim with gimbaled weapons, thus he acknowledges that his game is NOT controller agnostic and the one who has better hardware equipment will always win.

As for the second part - fly with the joystick and look with the mouse I have only one question - does CR knows human anatomy? Does he know that humans have only two hands and HOTAS requires both of them? Does he have a third hand?

As for turreting, CR has admitted that he has the same level of understanding of the word "turreting" as his fanboys - he simply does not understand it. Rotation in decoupled mode that's really funny to hear from the person in charge of the game development. There is little difference from saying at the same place and simply turning in decoupled mode. If you match the speed of your enemy and you enemy has simply entered the decoupled mode - enemy speed will be 0 in relation to your speed. As I have already stated turreting means fast rotation around rotational axes. The movement along translational axes does not prevent turreting as long as you can rotate fast.

I really can't believe that CR made such a stupid statement!

 

[Asp Explorer]

Does he know that humans have only two hands and HOTAS requires both of them? Does he have a third hand?

Simply no need for that I'm afraid. AC flight control is perfect. Those who cannot manage simultaneous HOTAS, TrackIR keyboard and mouse control are just a dead-end genepool who cannot appreciate a truly Newtonian flight model with real thruster control.

Of course, you can buy third and fourth arms in the store

 

[Helfix]

Simply no need for that I'm afraid. AC flight control is perfect. Those who cannot manage simultaneous HOTAS, TrackIR keyboard and mouse control are just a dead-end genepool who cannot appreciate a truly Newtonian flight model with real thruster control.

Of course, you can buy third and fourth arms in the store

Yeah I found it quite hilarious when he said to use both a joystick and mouse at same time.

What are HOTAS players supposed to do? Drop another $150/$350 for TrackerIR/OR ???

The only thing I can see working on HOTAS would be the mini joysticks, but that is not precise and its going to be really awkward while fighting another player as you are using hands to press hats for 6DOF, throttle and now apparently aiming gimbals.

Talk about the worst design know to man, what the **** are they thinking?

Also the mis-understanding on what turreting is beyond baffling.

 

[Aleksej]

Yeah I found it quite hilarious when he said to use both a joystick and mouse at same time.

What are HOTAS players supposed to do? Drop another $150/$350 for TrackerIR/OR ???

The only thing I can see working on HOTAS would be the mini joysticks, but that is not precise and its going to be really awkward while fighting another player as you are using hands to press hats for 6DOF, throttle and now apparently aiming gimbals.

Talk about the worst design know to man, what the **** are they thinking?

Also the mis-understanding on what turreting is beyond baffling.

Simply - no comments. I really do not know what to say about this. I have never expected such stupidity from they. Why bother with complicated flight model when it is down to mouse controls?

 

[Asp Explorer]

Talk about the worst design know to man, what the **** are they thinking?

Perhaps they fully intend the game to be played purely by six limbed, basement dwelling insects who are afraid of society?

Edit: OMG - six limbed - basement dwelling insectoids - are these the Thargoids?

 

[Helfix]

Perhaps they fully intend the game to be played purely by six limbed, basement dwelling insects who are afraid of society?

When CR said "use a joystick in one and mouse in another" I knew what I had to say about that. "This is Bull****"

Does nobody in his office play with HOTAS/Joysticks? Because if somebody is, they would know how bull**** it is to ask a HOTAS player to use a mouse to aim your weapons.

Lets not forget that the "free mouse aim" bull**** is here to stay.

I can't really say I am too happy about some of the answers. Will see how tweaking the numbers on thrusters and Pitch/Roll/Yaw go but I am seriously in doubt that they are going to make the controls agnostic.

If you are going to make controls agnostic then why make a mechanic easy on one platform and extremely difficult on another?

At least my x55 investment is not wasted, feels right at home in Elite, I really hope it feels the same in SC.

 

[Asp Explorer]

If you are going to make controls agnostic then why make a mechanic easy on one platform and extremely difficult on another?

Because it makes the children happy That is all there is to it! They love ease, and being made to feel special upon completion of the most trivial tasks - like starting a game for the first time.

"Ooohh - I got a medal for that!"

It shows no signs of stopping.

 

[Aleksej]

I can only congratulate FD as they are on the right way in creating the BDSSE. Most probably CIG won't be able to create something similar ever.

 

[Jack Booted Thug]

I like their flight model.

I think it has a lot of depth especially when it is combined with the operational choices in regards to the ship systems. I can see a very deep skill curve developing here.

Elite: Dangerous has taken a different approach and that is fantastic as we get two very different games, both with depth. Time will tell as to which is more preferable.

I have been enjoying the little I have played of Arena Commander and so far I am not very good.

Practice makes for improvements (not perfect but I can hope).

 

[Stormprooter]

I was thinking of this also. However, this has a downside that while you will be able to perform more precise maneuvers you will be at significant disadvantage vs opponents who do not set such limits and are provided with better in-game controller settings.

It doesn't work, and has the exact opposite effect to what I would have wanted. Narrowing the extreme 'deadzone' makes the stick report 100% deflection at the 66% point of movement

Next step now is to try vJoy and see if I can fiddle with that - but I'm not optimistic about it - still, I will attempt it. I feel I must at least have a go at doing something . . .