Not really. Black Ops 2 would block you out of multiplayer for an hour or more if you rage quit often, for example.
An investigation into Frontier's actions on Combat Logging
- Thread starter ryan_m
- Start date
Not really. Black Ops 2 would block you out of multiplayer for an hour or more if you rage quit often, for example.
Overwatch also warns you if you leave mid-game too often, and cuts your XP gain if you keep doing it, even outside of competitive games.
That does raise an interesting point, however, in that it is a negative focus on how you impact other people's enjoyment of the game. Sure, it's connected to how dumping a crap team in 6v6 impacts the rest of the players, but it also leads one to consider how what you do playing a game can impact positively on the experience of others.
Why does no one focus on that?
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An admirable dream Mikey.
We need NPC spiderbots hooked to the log files that will actively search for previous loggers and monitor their behaviour.
They would use an algorithm based on frequency and situation of the logging. They would appear whenever the chance of a log happening occurs.
Once tagged, the loggers would progressively get bright yellow lines painted on their ship.
If their ship gets covered in yellow, then they are confined in one system in Open until the yellow paint evaporates.
I think Hutton Orbital would make a fine place for this.
We need NPC spiderbots hooked to the log files that will actively search for previous loggers and monitor their behaviour.
They would use an algorithm based on frequency and situation of the logging. They would appear whenever the chance of a log happening occurs.
Once tagged, the loggers would progressively get bright yellow lines painted on their ship.
If their ship gets covered in yellow, then they are confined in one system in Open until the yellow paint evaporates.
I think Hutton Orbital would make a fine place for this.
Hahahaha! Let's make a start...
5 golds & lots of upvotes = huge amount of support for the investigation and its discussion from the Reddit community, who want it to be seen and joined in by as many users as possible. The Reddit rule "Psychological vote manipulation" refers to statements like "upvote this if you like/want..." etc.
Support tickets relating to Combat Logging and other cheats are "actual tickets" and important, as stated by Zac, Brett and Dale. Just because you (and possibly some other CMDRs) don't think cheating is important is irrelevant, as FDev think differently (quite rightly). As Zac stated, support unfortunately "didn't follow the processes that we set out and subsequently these reports were not actioned". If FDev have a support ticket backlog, they should hire more Support staff to handle the demand - especially for during discount sales periods (temporary agency staff are very good for this).
We moderators on ED Reddit couldn't care less why SDC or other CMDRs are banned from these official forums - all CMDRs are welcome to participate, as long as they follow the rules. If you're expecting us to segregate (prejudice?) users based on their playstyles or history on other communication channels, I believe the issue is with yourself (along with others wanting the same), not us Reddit moderators.
As to whether or not SDC are seen as martyrs for some PvP playstyles you would have to ask the community. Generally their posts aren't received well, judging by the vote scores they receive. What is fair to say is that SDC lobby for improvements to the PvP multiplayer side of the game, improvements which are welcomed by other PvPers, and are especially good at gaining the gaming media's attention on those topics.
Meanwhile, "there is no such thing as bad publicity". Everytime the gaming media writes about ED it's good marketing for the game, reminding gamers that it exists. On this Investigation topic for example, if the majority of players including former-CMDRs aren't interested in PvP, then the article readers will perhaps think "oh, I haven't played that in a while, I wonder what's changed, I'll give it a look". Gamers who are concerned with cheaters being punished will likely think "hmm, that's a bit daft, but if they fix it I might give it another look".
Furthermore, the articles are a gaming media entrypoint for FDev to make a later, follow-up announcement that they've fixed the issues surrounding this whole drama, providing even more publicity to the game.
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You are thinking of celebrity not games. Bad publicity in games gets you NMS and other such game failures.
Errm... same difference as removing rebuy... it does not change what I have said. It also will not stop the problem of CMDRs wanting to just play with others and not against them.
Combat Logging is a distasteful matter overall, and the reasons for it are moot in the main. While some may feel they are justified in combat logging, it is still a reportable offence and I encourage those who witness such incidents to report the players and let FD sort out the details. Because it is an EULA-breach matter, it is up to FD to decide the appropriate action to take not us as either a group or individuals. IMO each incident needs to be judged on a case by case basis, if FD find a pattern to the reports I am pretty sure they would do something about them but on a case by case basis.
If certain PvPers are unhappy with this situation then perhaps they need to look at other games instead. It would be inappropriate to demonise everyone who may have connection issues with the FD servers for one reason or another because of a number of definite cheaters use Combat Logging to save their own hides after engaging in PvP combat then find themselves unexpectedly outmatched for one reason or another.
Actually, the punishment for death is as polarised between apex PvP-er and entry-level PvP-er or random PvE-er as everything else in our Galactic wonderland.
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Apex-PvP-er:
Cannot be killed except consensually, RNGineered ship will withstand 10 minutes of continuous assault.
Rebuy utterly irrelevant because multibillionaire post Robigo. Actually sometimes self-destructs FdL as a quick way of returning to home station.
Entry-level-PvP-er / random PvE-er
Killed in split seconds by apex-PvP-er, unable even to high wake in time.
Rebuy punitive.
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I can certainly see the argument for some kind of rebalance, looking at the above. It's almost perverse. Those with the least chance of dying are the least punished in the unlikely event that they fall asleep at the stick and do die.
That said, though, some form of punishment for death is essential to system defence - if people just respawned, some player group systems would just be swamped by attackers. Sheer weight of numbers would dwarf skill, as in some other (far less good) games.
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As I indicated in another thread:-
- PvP murderers should probably pay at least part of the rebuy for the victims
- PvP murderers should gain a Pilots Federation endorsed universe wide bounty that only Anarchy system police will ignore.
- PvP murderers get off with not much more than a slap on the wrist
- PvP victims get overly penalised
Javert
Volunteer Moderator
Yes I understand. When I first floated this idea I did say that it was easy for me to propose as I have a pretty stable connection.
A few people earlier in this thread have given the answer that if you don't have a reliable connection, you shouldn't be playing in open. That's not very helpful to you, but I suppose that if such a system was introduced, people like yourself would be disadvantaged.
That said, just to be clear, you would only lose your ship if you disconnected whilst you were in a combat situation with at least one other player in the instance - if you D/C while in solo, doing a mission, or whatever, you wouldn't lose anything.
This raises a couple of points
- The information about broadband reliability by region, in the UK at least, is mostly publicly available. Therefore if you live in a dodgy area, you could ask support to increase your number of lives.
- The other thing this raises is that PVP players tend to assume / blame the person who logged out. They may not realize how often it's actually caused by various technical issues. Everyone says that it's highly unlikely you would d/c in combat lots of times, but I suppose that when you are in a busy instance with pitched battles going on, that is exactly when the game is under most strain, so it's more likely you will have an issue. I have actually had an issue the last few days where my throttle keeps stopping to respond, until I log out and log in again.
Why do you think Eurogamer et al doing articles on the Reddit post and Zac's response is bad publicity (counter to the good publicity points as suggested by myself)?
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But the communities are clearly made up of different people. The generalisation doesn't necessarily hold. I know many people who don't visit Reddit, many more who don't like it and hold their noses when they participate. I'm quite sure that the same can be said of many E:D playing Redditors, including those that call these forums "The Brown Sea," or, like the SDC member whose first post on this thread was to call the community here "the dregs" of the E:D community. The community is clearly not a unitary entity, and there are a great many misunderstandings and mischaracterisations at play here.
They're also particularly in need of training and extensive knowledge of both FD policies and community history. Context matters.
Entirely fair. Moderators do an often thankless job, and you deserve recognition for the work you do. Different communites, different standards. In another life I moderated a massive forum. It wasn't easy. Nor was it something you could not take seriously.
I'm not quite so sure that as a maxim that's true; neither am I quite so sure that the SDC's actions are, on balance, positive for the game. Every time the media writes about a ***storm, it puts people off. Negative publicity is great when your goal is to make money off people self-destructing. Amy Winehouse sold more records after she died from a heroin overdose. "All publicity is good publicity" is the kind of thing that marketing executives say. The SDC basically made a power play - "let's hold FD's toes over the fire for a while and see what happens."
Think about it - the OP basically said "if you don't do something about the problem we identify, we will go to the gaming press" - an ultimatum. Given the responses of the community (on this forum at least) to the inevitable polls that were posted in response to the "problem," I'd suggest that the issue identified just isn't that important to the community that were polled. Ultimately, it comes down to what specific communities expect from the game, and how the devs implement their interpretation of what their customers want. I'm confident that FD have more, and more reliable, data than we do as we run around like headless chickens endlessly debating the same basic aspects of gameplay.
Relevant websites picked up on the crapstorm anyway.
Call me a sceptic if you wish, but I think you're reaching to try to gloss an attempt by a group of players for some kind of control over the development direction of the game as a public service.
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open is PvP. Haven't you heard?
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I agree with you on all points except the last one, but no worries
A question for yourself and everyone still participating here in this thread:
Would you have responded differently to this Investigation (post) if Adles Armada had done it, the large Player Group that polices the starter/newbie sector and have equal (if not more) issues with Combat Loggers (newbie-killers)? They arguably submit more CL-related tickets than SDC et al.
It's been fairly consistent.
Having a reputation as a gankstorm isn't great. I've never had a friend who's not interested in trying or given up say they've done so because of combat logging, I've often heard it's because of the indiscriminate killing and having to play it solo. None of them knew about Mobius etc, none of them actually came back as they knew it still wasn't fixed.
Obviously everyone has different friends, but the feeling is out there for sure.
Yes, this is true. In other games it's marked down as a loss and you incur all the associated penalties of losing, like a hit to your stats, a + 1 to your disconnect count. In ED however, you incur no penalty whatsoever. Therefore the clear solution is to make ED like those other games and if you CL or your internet craps out your ship just blows up instantly and you're met with a rebuy screen when you next log on.
I know what you're saying. If there's one thing that living in Japan for 15 years has taught me, it's that it's not just the message that's important; it's how you communicate it.I agree with you on all points except the last one, but no worries
A question for yourself and everyone still participating here in this thread:
Would you have responded differently to this Investigation (post) if Adles Armada had done it, the large Player Group that polices the starter/newbie sector and have equal (if not more) issues with Combat Loggers (newbie-killers)? They arguably submit more CL-related tickets than SDC et al.
In all honesty though, I wouldn't have - I've played the game since release (I missed the Kickstarter
) and combat logging has never been a problem. I've engaged in PvP (and died. Horribly), been pirated and gave up my cargo, and never combat logged, even when my AFK clanmate was hogging the pad on the outpost when I had a broken canopy. We have, of course, seen combat logging, but it's just a case of recognising that we won that encounter, and moving on to the next goal. The long and short of it is that I just don't believe that combat logging is really a problem - the rebuy mechanic is a joke anyway, and there's basically nothing that "good guy" PvP groups can do to reduce their targets to a default Sidey anyway. The SDC take themselves too seriously.
It's a game.
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This is so very true. Have a virtual +rep
Which is why there's such opposition from certain groups to maintaining the ultra-high earning routes and exploits like mode-swap mission stacking. It makes money meaningless for those willing to take advantage.
PUNISHMENT is not the right solution. Not at all! The rebuy costs are way too high for some CMDRs and the GRIND to get the costs covered IS TOO HIGH. That's the real problem. As mentioned there's no best solution for this problem. But punsihing players for the implementation as it is now is the worst solution.
Money is meaningless in this game. It's all about time - I posted about this a few pages back.
I've never flown without rebuy. Ever. I've flown with it and killed myself seconds after buying the ship, but never without enough money to buy it back, even when you got like 7,000cr for killing a wanted Anaconda.
Money is meaningless. Rebuy is meaningless. Removing the "you got killed for lulz" punishment from the game would, imo, go a long way to crystalising the issue, which is that a tiny percentage of the player base are bumholes.
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