A Guide to Minor Factions and the Background Sim

[Gemai]

re chain conflicts. I've been following the bug threads etc. and have not been able to determine a pattern. In one case we had both factions in election surge by approx. 10% and re-equalize and go pending again.

re influence drops, we have seen drops of over 20-25% (from 50 to 25%) and rises of approx. 15-50% over one tick. Others have noted such extremes since 2.2 too. Something has been changed, intentionally or not we don't know.

1) That is a ceasefire phenomenon. On the day the conflict (election/war) ends with no victor but same %, they repeat the pending as a ceasefire. On the day before it registers, the game denies separating them, pushing the one left behind as far up as the runaway. Only on day 2 once the pending "officially" starts can they be seperated. Stupid but the current state.

2) I explained it before: Growth past the 1/5 difference threshold is only possible if another faction gets poisened. The forced faction then absorbs the lost % due to its personal contribution value. If the poisening is too strong (overshooting below 1%) or the force push is not strong enough, it instead gets spread by current % to the factions (you get 60% of the losses as a 60% remnants faction). It makes no sense, kills the cap and is a pure exploit mass abused in our region right now. Anyone who uses these acknowledged broken mechanics is just a plain cheater and exploiter. Nothing to cry over if you lose against cheats and exploits. And nothing for the "winner" to be proud for. Only revengers and griefers will revel in it.

- - - Updated - - -

Are you talking about the 1t sales in black markets? I thought that was fixed months ago.

1t sales in open markets are fixed months ago. It has nothing to do with the BM, it works differently. But let's leave that aside in this discussion. No need to open the exploit can again and tell them how to use it "better".

 

[Schlack]

Suffice to say there are significant problems with the BGS in 2.2 - none of us may have all the details, or elements correct - none of us are in command of all the information. The question is what are we going to do about it?

The developers appear to be running a series of live streams to discuss aspects of the game. Perhaps we should request another BGS stream?

 

[goemon]

Suffice to say there are significant problems with the BGS in 2.2 - none of us may have all the details, or elements correct - none of us are in command of all the information. The question is what are we going to do about it?

The developers appear to be running a series of live streams to discuss aspects of the game. Perhaps we should request another BGS stream?

this is definetly a good idea. also dropping questions into those livestreams

 

[SaliVader]

this is definetly a good idea. also dropping questions into those livestreams

My only question would be "BGS subforum when???"

Unfortunately the next Q&A is about the new changes that are going into the beta servers soon so I think they'll ignore any BGS related question

 

[Moritz Norman]

There is no way to find a particular faction. Even external tools aren't much use.
There should be a way of searching for factions, though I'd restrict it to ones you are allied to.

I submitted a ticket to FDev and they confirmed that I had the correct list of systems for our faction.

 

[Fire Dragon]

Hello, We want to take control of a system, the controlling faction is at 1% (with a state of "none"), we are now 61% but no pending war? We are pending Expansion from another system though.

Does the pending expansion stop the pending war?
Has the 60% mark for creating a war for control changed? (I see in some posts saying it's 70% but they are old posts, and seems a bit close to the 75% for expansion for ease of manipulation)

It could of course just be that the states are not updated yet as we went over the 60% tonight?

Many Thanks

 

[Adhock]

Hello, We want to take control of a system, the controlling faction is at 1% (with a state of "none"), we are now 61% but no pending war? We are pending Expansion from another system though.

Does the pending expansion stop the pending war?
Has the 60% mark for creating a war for control changed? (I see in some posts saying it's 70% but they are old posts, and seems a bit close to the 75% for expansion for ease of manipulation)

It could of course just be that the states are not updated yet as we went over the 60% tonight?

Many Thanks

You borked it.

Control of stations does not happen without a conflict.

Those high levels are for expansion and it's been to my knowledge that war for control of a system only happens when one equalizes one's influence with the controlling faction, wins the war, and takes the largest station in the system first as the controlling station.

Pushing higher then 60% is only grounds for expansion.

I would hesitate to say that War will override expansion rather then the other way around.

You're going to need to push that faction back up to your level and start taking the stations through conflict.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

Pushing higher then 60% is only grounds for expansion.

I would hesitate to say that War will override expansion rather then the other way around.

You're going to need to push that faction back up to your level and start taking the stations through conflict.

That is incorrect.

Conflict for control happens in two ways.

1. You equalise influence with the controlling faction
2. Your faction exceeds 60% (I think it triggers about 63%)

It has worked this way for quite a while. It still works in 2.2. My faction won a war lst week using the >60% method, and won an electino last night using the equalise method.

But either faction can only have one conflict at a time, so conflct in other sytems will prevent this one.

 

[Sitoutumaton]

After having a talk with Light Fingers from Sacra Oculus and having witnessed another PMF patronage go into elections with a democracy (which they by the Autocrats v Democrats theory should not), I'm issuing a call to intensively monitor player minor faction conflict resolution.

According to Light Fingers, Sacra Oculus (which is a theocracy) has engaged dictatorships and corporations both in elections and war. By my current understanding the choice should be binary and not permit both conflict states. Gemai believes player minor factions either have different hidden ruleset or are bugged, while I am trying to pursue validity of both states being permitted.

 

[Adhock]

That is incorrect.

Conflict for control happens in two ways.

1. You equalise influence with the controlling faction
2. Your faction exceeds 60% (I think it triggers about 63%)

It has worked this way for quite a while. It still works in 2.2. My faction won a war lst week using the >60% method, and won an electino last night using the equalise method.

But either faction can only have one conflict at a time, so conflct in other sytems will prevent this one.

My mistake then.

After having a talk with Light Fingers from Sacra Oculus and having witnessed another PMF patronage go into elections with a democracy (which they by the Autocrats v Democrats theory should not), I'm issuing a call to intensively monitor player minor faction conflict resolution.

According to Light Fingers, Sacra Oculus (which is a theocracy) has engaged dictatorships and corporations both in elections and war. By my current understanding the choice should be binary and not permit both conflict states. Gemai believes player minor factions either have different hidden ruleset or are bugged, while I am trying to pursue validity of both states being permitted.

Bugged is my call. I'm currently monitoring a conflict between a Dictatorship and a Corporation in war.

I think someone may be pushing the Dictatorship or I may have accidentally taken a mission to nudge them in the lead. Not sure which at this point. Traffic supports the notion I goofed and took a mission from the wrong minor faction.

I'm gearing up for a third go. Third time's the charm they say. Also pushing other factions in accordance with my facitions' story. See if I can drag them down by consuming influence with more then one faction.

 

[SaliVader]

PMFs don't behave like regular factions. For instance, our corporate faction has elections with democracies and wars with other corporates.

 

[Limoncello Lizard]

After having a talk with Light Fingers from Sacra Oculus and having witnessed another PMF patronage go into elections with a democracy (which they by the Autocrats v Democrats theory should not), I'm issuing a call to intensively monitor player minor faction conflict resolution.

According to Light Fingers, Sacra Oculus (which is a theocracy) has engaged dictatorships and corporations both in elections and war. By my current understanding the choice should be binary and not permit both conflict states. Gemai believes player minor factions either have different hidden ruleset or are bugged, while I am trying to pursue validity of both states being permitted.

I can't remember the details of all the conflicts Sacra Oculus has been in. But the one just concluded was an election vs an Imperial Dictatorship. The war last week was vs an Imperial Corporation.

The next conflict will probably be an Imperial Patronage. I'd expect that to be an election.

 

[Mrjupp]

Yep we already had an election against an Imperial Patronage. We have noted a difference on occasion between Independent and Imperial of the same Government type. PMFs do appear to follow different rules.

 

[Arka]

Hello I want to ask, the latest tick, myFaction and ControllingFaction are now both on Civil War states.

Then I thought I'd join some war and visited the Conflict Zone, there I saw myFaction and ControllingFaction on my right Panel.

Realized that I forgot to pick up massacree missions, I went back to the station, picked up the massacre mission

Then go out again to the Conflict Zone. But they are now gone! There are some Conflict Zone, but those are CZ for Faction C and Faction D that I don't care about. I searched all celestial bodies and checked every single CZ point, and those were all Faction C and Faction D war. myFaction CZ points are gone poof I check back at the station again, the missions they were giving now, BOOM data delivery and Boom cargo transport, and the passengers mission the tourists were all saying in this time of Boom we should go take a vacation or something like that as if War isn't happening instead it's Boom time.

Is it because myFaction pushed too far? I did lots of missions during the Civil War countdown, as a result, the opposing faction now have 0% influence, while MyFaction has turned to 60%++

Is this supposed to happen or should I file a bug report?

Thanks

 

[Gemai]

Pre war, the enemy should never be at 1% unless you use -inf% actions. During war with the bad BGS state they would drop down to 1% if it is one sided.

Either way there are 2 options for this:

Your war ended today (you said it only pended before so unlikely unless the retreat/expansion bug that is supposedly fixed happened).
Another war started/ended and/or an asset changed hands. In that case the CZ reset and get reshuffled. You have to check ALL again.

 

[irongut]

Hello, We want to take control of a system, the controlling faction is at 1% (with a state of "none"), we are now 61% but no pending war? We are pending Expansion from another system though.

Does the pending expansion stop the pending war?
Has the 60% mark for creating a war for control changed? (I see in some posts saying it's 70% but they are old posts, and seems a bit close to the 75% for expansion for ease of manipulation)

It could of course just be that the states are not updated yet as we went over the 60% tonight?

Many Thanks

The hierarchy for states blocking or interrupting other states is Conflict States (War/Civil War/Election) > Expansion states (Expansion/Investment/Retreat) > Others so your pending Expansion isn't blocking your conflict. If the BGS has updated to show your infleunce is over 60% then the states should have updated too.

Any chance the controller is involved in a conflict in another system? That is the #1 cause of conflicts not going pending.

 

[Arka]

Pre war, the enemy should never be at 1% unless you use -inf% actions. During war with the bad BGS state they would drop down to 1% if it is one sided.

Either way there are 2 options for this:

Your war ended today (you said it only pended before so unlikely unless the retreat/expansion bug that is supposedly fixed happened).
Another war started/ended and/or an asset changed hands. In that case the CZ reset and get reshuffled. You have to check ALL again.

I don't know, they are 1% on my System map, but on my right panel it says 0%.

For a moment, the missions had this civil war context on its comment

But now the context of the missions are all become Boom

Even though it is now Civil War

 

[Gemai]

You played over the tick time I take it. Relog. Check again. This goes for CZ and others.

 

[DNA-Decay]

Regarding expansion of a player faction into a system where there is already a player faction?

I was lead to believe it shouldn't happen, but has now happened to us 2 times in a week. (a player faction moved into one of our systems and we moved into another factions)

There's no restriction on PMFs being in the same system.
I saw Diamond Frogs and Hammers of Slough in bed together sharing a system back in May.

Once your minor faction is in game, it just expands according to the expansion rules.
I would expect that even if it was another PMF's home system you could expand there if the expansion criteria were met.

I'm pretty sure you can't start in the same home system, but it's unclear whether Frontier would put a new PMF into a system where another PMF had expanded.
I don't think it breaks any of their rules, but it guarantees the new PMF will have an uphill battle and they like folks to have a postive experience.

 

[Arka]

@Gemai: hey thanks, I just went to sleep and after wake up, the CZs spawned normally.


So I guess all I need is to just shoot the enemies? How does a "civil war" ends? As for now myFaction has 62% Influence, and the oppsing controlling faction has 1% influence

I read Michael's post over here, is it still valid? https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=133134&p=2039001&viewfull=1#post2039001

The conflict ends when
the maximum duration is reached or
their influence levels move too far apart in the daily update.

So would the CZ end by the next day tick or it has to be 3 Days minimum?

I checked here and there, some says 3 days is the minimum and some other says relative to the Influence difference, etc I dont know which one is the correct one