Modes The Open v Solo v Groups thread IV - Hotel California

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If you devide PVE from PVP into dedicated servers You will manifest the splitting of players into a and b, Good and Bad, Trumps and Clintons,... you can go on to yourl iking.

If fact I am afraid that the PVP dedicated environment will be almost empty. You will not find explorers out there. Traders running the systems on the rim. They core thing
is PVP needs density and if FD is willing to suport this is up to them. I don't care about PVP dedicated server just because I won't use them. I will play open or one of the
4 Private groups I am member in. Or even Solo if my mood takes me there. I already have 6 options I don't need a seventh.

Regards,
Miklos

No splitting just different play styles.

My question is, if you will never find explorers, traders, and the likes in a PVP only system.. then why do PVPers keep asking for it? I agree that PVP needs density and if they are all in one place hopefully they would have it ^,^.
 
No splitting just different play styles.

My question is, if you will never find explorers, traders, and the likes in a PVP only system.. then why do PVPers keep asking for it? I agree that PVP needs density and if they are all in one place hopefully they would have it ^,^.

I do not have anything against any PVP dedicated Server / Mode. The only thing I insist of is: It is not taking any advantage above any other Server / Mode. That's all.
But then, you can just create your Private Group....

Regards,
Miklos
 
It quite possibly would be. Many of us (myself included) have advocated for two Open servers... one PVP one PVE.

not only that but multiple open modes with different rulesets, with potential for account bans from a mode for breaking said rules was actually part of the kickstarter pitch... so EVERYONE who bought the game bought into that very feature
 
(PvE players are so damn forum aggressive that if I would not state it here separately someone would make a comment about it, believe me that would happen for sure).

It is not just happy carebear land where everyone is taking care from each other, it is often the opposite. And surprisingly many are ready to cheat to win.
PvP mode means that you have to run that trader in PvP mode to earn money, not run it in solo and then come in Open mode after. It gives some purpose for


edit2..
Another issue is that FD lets all the exploiters to keep their wrongly got benefits. That is bad for PvP as well, at least if speaking from competitive. As you understand, in the current carebear land, who cares if someone gets a billion from some exploit? It is not really affecting to anything. On PvP server? That would give a huge advantage.

read the 1st line of your post and then the rest of your post and take a step back, can you not see the hypocrisy? you are totally aggressive against the PvE player. I have no issue with PvP players, so long as they keep out of my way, as i keep out of theirs, but the devs themselves have said they ARE a minority BUT at the same time so far have had an inordinate amount of time spent trying to "fix" their gameplay.

As for the exploits.... We have common ground there, imo the exploits need to be closed, however funnily enough the players I play with - all PvE players - have no interest in using them, but the PvP players i know feel they HAVE to do every exploit they can to get their PvP capable ships as fast as they can.

Not saying this is the full truth, however imo exploiters are rife among PvP players..... PvE players do not really need to exploit.

focussing on PvE gameplay benefits everyone, even the PvP players because everyone has to do PvE..... however spending lots of time on PvP stuff really only benefits a section of players. I am not saying ignore PvP, but lets see some PvE content too please.
 
Why, oh why, does this threadnought still exist?

Because those that are infinitely wise to the world of gaming, believe they have the answer to solve THE problem. THE problem being something that is alien to the world of gaming, primarily that PvP is not defined by smashing people in the face...but the outpacing of enemies who are fighting in competing PvE activities. Once the wise have figured out that this is 'wrong' they come here to state they have THE solution.
 
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Because those that are infinitely wise to the world of gaming, believe they have the answer to solve THE problem. THE problem being something that is alien to the world of gaming, primarily that PvP is not defined by smashing people in the face...but the outpacing of enemies who are fighting in competing PvE activities. Once the wise have figured out that this is 'wrong' they come here to state they have THE solution.

So shooting another Cmdr isn't PvP??

Does this make Elite a solely PVE game?

My thoughts on the whole Open, Solo, Private situation is that Open should carry bonuses to Cmdrs and factions if you complete missions, Powerplay and CG's etc using only open. As soon as you mode switch you lose said bonus. This way the people who run the higher risks get the better reward.

I think the idea of 2 open servers one for PVE and one for PvP is purely idiotic when the mobius group has "25,000 members". That would pretty much make the mobius PG redundant and cause salt overloads.
 
So shooting another Cmdr isn't PvP??

Does this make Elite a solely PVE game?

My thoughts on the whole Open, Solo, Private situation is that Open should carry bonuses to Cmdrs and factions if you complete missions, Powerplay and CG's etc using only open. As soon as you mode switch you lose said bonus. This way the people who run the higher risks get the better reward.

I think the idea of 2 open servers one for PVE and one for PvP is purely idiotic when the mobius group has "25,000 members". That would pretty much make the mobius PG redundant and cause salt overloads.

lol higher risk. You have seen the primitive arrangement FD uses for connecting players together in the same instance, right? For example, ran the Tutumu CG, saw a couple times when the instance was chock full of players, and then other times the place was nothing but solid sensor blips, within the space of 20 minutes; then back to the same doods talking jazz in the comms channel the next ten minutes back. Run to run, it was completely random as to who and how many live ones would be in a given Tutumu despite the vast player presence for the overall event.

Vastly-higher risk in Open to the point of requiring different reward systems is a myth; perpetuated both by people in Solo who fear Open far more than is necessary, and people in Open trying to prove how interwebz-manly they are. Open simply is NOT that much more dangerous than any other mode.
 
So shooting another Cmdr isn't PvP??

It can be. It can also be collusion, exploiting, farming and popcorning.

Does this make Elite a solely PVE game?

It can be for those who choose it to be. It's also got PvP for those who choose it.

My thoughts on the whole Open, Solo, Private situation is that Open should carry bonuses to Cmdrs and factions if you complete missions, Powerplay and CG's etc using only open. As soon as you mode switch you lose said bonus. This way the people who run the higher risks get the better reward.

Utterly exploitable I'm afraid.

I think the idea of 2 open servers one for PVE and one for PvP is purely idiotic when the mobius group has "25,000 members". That would pretty much make the mobius PG redundant and cause salt overloads.

Mobius group would in all probability not mind at all if they got Open PVE - and I'd bet cash there would be no salt on their part ;)
 
So shooting another Cmdr isn't PvP??

Does this make Elite a solely PVE game?

My thoughts on the whole Open, Solo, Private situation is that Open should carry bonuses to Cmdrs and factions if you complete missions, Powerplay and CG's etc using only open. As soon as you mode switch you lose said bonus. This way the people who run the higher risks get the better reward.

I think the idea of 2 open servers one for PVE and one for PvP is purely idiotic when the mobius group has "25,000 members". That would pretty much make the mobius PG redundant and cause salt overloads.

Well, first...Mobius' group is pointing at the blatant failure of this game to provide PvE. No single player in a game should hold 40k+ players in any single group. An Open PvE flag would not be redundant...it would allow a single player to actually play the game rather than manage the thousands of PVE players that want to play their way.

Second....I will repost this and hope you read and understand it:



"If you are expecting to play the game in Open and want to bash someone in the face to prevent them from messing up 'your system' because 'PvP rools'..you are failing on a fundamental level to understand how 'PvP' in this game works. 'PvP E: D style' (not gang man style) is done by out collecting PvE trophies of those upsetting 'your system'. You do missions, you kill NPC's, you turn in bounties, you do PvE 'things'! That's it. The ancient 'Art of PvP', where you shoot other players is outdated and ill conceived in this game....and has very little effect on the over arching BGS.

In short, Direct PvP is not designed to be anything more than a sideshow. The devs have built in a negative feed back loop to be sure that the PvE people leave Open, leaving Open the wasteland of the PvP and Pk crowd, with a few understanding people that are just looking for the danger of dieing or making friends. The devs are quite happy with this standard they set!"

Finally, the modes are built identically to allow the above type of PvP to play out. Hitting each other in the face is a wonderful thing for many people to do....however, that is not how this game is designed...nor is it something that is actually rewarded.

In short, PVP sucks in this game..thousands of players have figured this out...and left over it. Your choice is to either follow suit...or accept that the only PVP that will matter in this game is the indirect PVP of out collecting PVE trophies.
 
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My thoughts on the whole Open, Solo, Private situation is that Open should carry bonuses to Cmdrs and factions if you complete missions, Powerplay and CG's etc using only open. As soon as you mode switch you lose said bonus. This way the people who run the higher risks get the better reward.

It's a nice idea, but ultimately runs on two assumptions I don't like. First, that higher risks give rewards because a game is defined by those stakes. Maybe twenty years back, but these days, a game is defined - more or less - by entertainment or pleasure. I know this wasn't your point, but it underscores the distinctions of what is most important, and from that the scaffolds emerge. Essentially you're looking at ways of protecting the Open scenario on the basis that difficulty should be rewarded, so the game needs to find a way to protect those who take on harder difficulty from those who could do the same tasks in a subjectively less difficult space. So the game becomes managed by an out-dated (but popularist) concept. It's not true.

Secondly, it promotes that idea that modes of play that are group orientated should be ring fenced to make their game-scape more "fair". What gets me about this is that game-scapes in Elite are entirely individual. Where your community is online, or offline (such as this forum could be considered), the game-world of Elite is singular. That is the constant here. We as players are just players. The different modes create different outcomes that we can prefer (if you like the challenge of human players, the risk, and the social: Open, if you like the structural challenges, isolation, and no-distractions: Solo - private groups sit inbetween). The constant isn't any of those states. None of them are the "way to play" and the others variations on a theme. This is important because if you accept this, the merging of these modes and their affects on the world of Elite matters far less. So whether people can flit between modes, or sit in what could be considered "easier" modes, all of which that might affect the goals or PP that you are immersed in (regardless of mode), makes no difference. It affects YOUR world, yes. It affects EVERY individual playing, and their world. You adjust to those changes if you need to. But ultimately you are just one person in a big messy complex industry of events.

Example, as I'm aware I'm being convoluted. :) Sort of like running a medium sized business, and the industry shifts around you. You can affect some decisions, with some other businesses you are affiliated with, you can make some larger changes, but you can't affect every decision and determine every change. And not every effect within that industry may be fair, or as you planned, or as you wanted. Some may affect that industry through powers that make their methods an easier play than your business. They may have large networks created by their dads, or money left to them from a large inheritance. As players, they may not sit on your playing field, and it might make their life easier, but you can't help that. That's how it is, and the world adjusts (unfairly sometimes) accordingly. In all this, the only constant is there is "an industry", just like we have "the Universe of Elite".

So this is like Elite. PVE, PVP etc, all play into the Elite Universe as if it was an industrial mess. It's not a level playing field. Some might exploit, some may play by easier rules (PVE), but ultimately, does it really matter? That's just like life. It's messy and you deal the cards you are dealt. Is that not really what Dangerous truly is about? Unfair odds?
 
To add one more thing to Sans' points...

In this game, if I..or my wife...decides to watch Netflix...I have just created a way to play in Open and GUARANTEE that no one else in the world will be instanced with me...AND I would get all your juicy bonus for my efforts.

This game is not designed for what you desire...it IS designed for the experience that the devs want to provide....indirect PVP races between different groups to outcollect PVE trophies.

The game offers a chance at PVP....and whether that occurs in a Private Group or Open doesn't matter one whit to the game...it does, for some strange reason, matter to the PVP players.
 
it does, for some strange reason, matter to the PVP players.

And always, it seems, for the same tired old reasons;

"More risk so we demand more reward!"

"It's Elite DANGEROUS you hide-in-solo such and such!"

"PvP is the end-game!!"

"What? A multiplayer game where I cannot kill every other player?"

;)
 
And always, it seems, for the same tired old reasons;

"More risk so we demand more reward!"

"It's Elite DANGEROUS you hide-in-solo such and such!"

"PvP is the end-game!!"

"What? A multiplayer game where I cannot kill every other player?"

;)

I get their points....I preferred this game with the idea of direct PVP that meant something...but realized that the game was not designed with that type of PvP in mind. It really is PVP all about the PvE movement of Pve things...and fighting against that by out collecting other PVE things against it....<shrug> the game cannot be 'more' than that because that is how the game is truly built.
 
Easiest quick fix is to split solo and open from one another. Just take the server data right now, duplicate it, and then carry on in whatever mode you play in. Private groups should be matched to the new solo only server, giving solo-ers the ability to play with other people when the fancy strikes them. Everyone wins.

I'll be perfectly honest, I've never seen the need to play solo. Unless you're in a popular region, or near CG's, it's basically a solo game anyway. Space is big. I've often wished to run into someone out in space.

I feel like if they were split, there'd be reasons to do farming in open. As a result, there'd be reason to join player factions, and team up to accomplish goals. This creates the play style I want, while the solo play-style remains intact for those who prefer it. At the end of the day, catering to multiple play-styles this way would increases revenue for the company, as people who wanted a space MMO get one, and those who wanted a PVE game get their cake too.

In the end, more people playing = more better content and game for everyone.

Then they'd just have to work on the instancing, exploits, and sorely missing social tools.
 
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