The Star Citizen Thread v5

[SlickReed]

There is no point in generating assets if you don't have a game to put them in

Because your post basically comes down to " the chicken comes before the egg" Im going to just take your comment as a joke

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*Mod hat off



As far as I know, the scope didnt grow, at least officially, after the last stretch goal towards the end of 2014, at 65 million. The main scope growth was, as you referred to, from kickstarter to end of stretch goals. There is nothing else in CIG´s portal that lists any other new scope beyond that that I am aware of after Stretch goals ended. With the possible exception of the accelerated procedural tech.



Hence why now, close to 140 USD MM (up from those 65), it is all very puzzling.

Well being that the ships play the biggest part in the game, everytime they finish a new ship its always bigger and better then its concept. Since thats plays such a big part in the game I guess you can say its growing all the time.

 

[Viajero]

*Mod hat off

Well being that the ships play the biggest part in the game, everytime they finish a new ship its always bigger and better then its concept. Since thats plays such a big part in the game I guess you can say its growing all the time.

I am not sure how many new ships not in scope have been confirmed recently but I highly doubt that they all cost as much to develop as to warrant CIG to need more money to the tune of 140 - 65 = 75 USD MM.

 

[SlickReed]

The ships have an extreme amount of detail ( the Cat is a sight to be seen) and they can only be worked by certain people within CIG. The go to studio for large ships was fountry 42 but they are busy with SQ42 which is why the Cat was done in California. They take a very long time to finish, and time is money and they have alot more ships to go. Do they need as much money as they already have? I honestly dont know and backers dont really care. I just want my Polaris fast tracked

 

[VidarSnipes]

The ships have an extreme amount of detail ( the Cat is a sight to be seen) and they can only be worked by certain people within CIG. The go to studio for large ships was fountry 42 but they are busy with SQ42 which is why the Cat was done in California. They take a very long time to finish, and time is money and they have alot more ships to go. Do they need as much money as they already have? I honestly dont know and backers dont really care. I just want my Polaris fast tracked

But does SC really need so many ships, when they take so much resources to make, when there is no gameplay loop yet?

 

[SlickReed]

But does SC really need so many ships, when they take so much resources to make, when there is no gameplay loop yet?

I honestly dont know until the game is out. It does seem like an obscene amount of choice in ships but I think its important to remember that no game to this scope has been made before ( in scope I mean more detail then size of real state) so in many ways CR doesnt even know really how big the game will be when its done, but at least right now we know they have a starting point and goal of next year to have 1 system full functional. I think we will know more by this time next year.

Some of that scope
[video=youtube;yi7OMugknAw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi7OMugknAw&t=143s[/video]

 

[Ian Skippy]

I honestly dont know until the game is out. It does seem like an obscene amount of choice in ships but I think its important to remember that no game to this scope has been made before ( in scope I mean more detail then size of real state) so in many ways CR doesnt even know really how big the game will be when its done, but at least right now we know they have a starting point and goal of next year to have 1 system full functional. I think we will know more by this time next year.

Some of that scope
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi7OMugknAw&t=143s

I think that if you're a designing a game but havent decided yet 'how big the game will be when its done', you're not even in pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-alpha. If at this point they still dont know what they want to do, they also dont know how to get there and how long it'll take. It means SC wont be out for many, many years. By that time technology will have aged so much the whole 'super fidelity best at everything' slogan kinda doesnt apply. And to even get there they'll need tons and tons of additional money. You'll have an absurdly expensive game for which many have paid silly amounts and you'll get a lot of average stuff together. Anyway, doesnt it strike you as worrying that your quote is basically what backers have to see every year around this time?

"Sure, it hasnt gone anywhere yet, they promised a lot for this year and it was a great disappointment. But its a game with a huge scope, so we'll know more next year."

 

[SlickReed]

I think that if you're a designing a game but havent decided yet 'how big the game will be when its done', you're not even in pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-pre-alpha. If at this point they still dont know what they want to do, they also dont know how to get there and how long it'll take. It means SC wont be out for many, many years. By that time technology will have aged so much the whole 'super fidelity best at everything' slogan kinda doesnt apply. Anyway, doesnt it strike you as worrying that your quote is basically what backers have to see every year around this time?

"Sure, it hasnt gone anywhere yet, they promised a lot for this year and it was a great disappointment. But its a game with a huge scope, so we'll know more next year."

The time and fidelity draw backs have been addressed by CR already which is why the ships that were made before the new ship pipline are getting makeovers.
[video=youtube;MhAxjI5dtx4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MhAxjI5dtx4[/video]

The "plan" has always been 100 systems all high fidelity and populated but because this type of game has never been done before and the funding just keeps on coming in its hard to judge just how big it will be in the end. is it better to have less systems booming with life of more systems with less going on? thats a very subjective argument.

I dont think thats put you "not in alpha" state but it does put you in uncharted waters. It could all go wrong if mismanaged I think all the backers know this. But with what we have seen from 2.6 and a taste of 3.0 it does seem like we are so damn close.

 

[Viajero]

*Mod hat off

Do they need as much money as they already have? I honestly dont know...

... they need more money.

Ok. I am getting confused here. Time for bed.

 

[VidarSnipes]

I honestly dont know until the game is out. It does seem like an obscene amount of choice in ships but I think its important to remember that no game to this scope has been made before ( in scope I mean more detail then size of real state) so in many ways CR doesnt even know really how big the game will be when its done, but at least right now we know they have a starting point and goal of next year to have 1 system full functional. I think we will know more by this time next year.

Some of that scope
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi7OMugknAw&t=143s

Wait, five years in and the creator of the game doesn't know how big will it be when it's done, and you're not worried about that? The problem with new ships is that no matter how intricate the concept, it they don't add any new gameplay, they're pointless at the stage of development when even the most basic systems aren't drawn out yet.

 

[SlickReed]

doesnt it strike you as worrying that your quote is basically what backers have to see every year around this time?

Thats not true. This time last year was the release of 2.0 and with everyupdate the game gets better and better, but you would have to play the alpha to know this. The graphics and character have just been updated in 2.6. The game has come a LONG way
[video=youtube;LIRzte_Se-o]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LIRzte_Se-o[/video]

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*Mod hat off





Ok. I am getting confused here. Time for bed.

Can always count on you for context misrepresentation.

 

[Viajero]

Can always count on you for context misrepresentation.

No misrepresentation intended I promise. But if you want to further explain the apparent contradiction, for my sake, I am all ears!

 

[SlickReed]

it they don't add any new gameplay, they're pointless at the stage of development when even the most basic systems aren't drawn out yet.

Without the majority of the game play mechanics implemented yet no one can say what gameplay new ships bring or not. If you look at Eve online they have a ridiculous amount of ships and every one of them are used for one thing or another and most of them play the same career roles.

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No misrepresentation intended I promise. But if you want to further explain the apparent contradiction, for my sake, I am all ears!

Ive had poor interactions with you in the past that was a waste of both of our time. I think its best if you dont understand my post as I wrote it that its best we agree to disagree and move on, deal?

 

[Viajero]

*Mod hat off

Ive had poor interactions with you in the past that was a waste of both of our time. I think its best if you dont understand my post as I wrote it that its best we agree to disagree and move on, deal?

I am all willing to giving it a new chance if you are up for it. Would be very appreciative if you indulge me in the explanation, as I am sure there must be one.

 

[Osmanthus]

Without the majority of the game play mechanics implemented yet no one can say what gameplay new ships bring or not. If you look at Eve online they have a ridiculous amount of ships and every one of them are used for one thing or another and most of them play the same career roles.

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Ive had poor interactions with you in the past that was a waste of both of our time. I think its best if you dont understand my post as I wrote it that its best we agree to disagree and move on, deal?

Then explain it to me instead.

 

[VidarSnipes]

Without the majority of the game play mechanics implemented yet no one can say what gameplay new ships bring or not. If you look at Eve online they have a ridiculous amount of ships and every one of them are used for one thing or another and most of them play the same career roles.

And that's the problem, CIG focuses on ship development to the detriment of features, you know, things to do.

 

[SlickReed]

*Mod hat off



I am all willing to giving it a new chance if you are up for it. Would be very appreciative if you indulge me in the explanation, as I am sure there must be one.

Being in project management myself (aviation not tech) there is a difference " keeping the lights on" and "project funding to achieve a goal". They may sound alike but they are far from it.

I have no idea what other/more investment it will take to achieve the technology required to arrive at the CRs goal of the universe he wants to build, alot of the funding was spent on such tech (planetary landings) but I dont know what else is required. I know about the instancing tech that CIG is working on ( like many other studios) that will allow thousands of players to play within the same instance in same or other ships but I dont know how much additional funding that will take, but I do know that in order for this tech to even reach its infancy all the CIG studios need to stay up and running and developers need to get paid.

That was the context of my previous post.

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And that's the problem, CIG focuses on ship development to the detriment of features, you know, things to do.

Thats a valid point, but we dont really know how far they are, CR keeps alot under wraps.

 

[Neo-ST]

Right after the end of the KS and when the new website went up funds increase dramatically and consistently. There was a vote cast on the RSI website asking backers do they want the game bigger and better, continuing the stretch goals. The vote was a resounding "YES make the game bigger, better, and take your time doing so". So CIG did

You, as a CEO of a multi-million crowdfunded company, cannot and should not allow for such a freedom of an important aspect of your company to be decided by ordinary people who got no clue about managing a company or developing games.
It is unprofessional and irresponsible thing to do, due to a fact that in this equation there's a thing called "accountability", and one day someone will have to be held accountable if the project fails.

So, now who's it gonna be?
CR (CIG), or greedy backers who "wanted more"? Do you get the problem? They've introduced the second variable in case of their responsibility - the backers.
Do you remember CR already blaming it once before on the backers?

You could possibly give such power to backers once you worked out the complete outcome in both cases, whether they chose to finish now or continue the development (but then have it defined to which extent), making sure you'll be able to pull it off.

What he did was, built the crowdfunded hype boat, loaded it up with guests, showed them pretty pictures of their paradise-lookalike destination, put himself at the helm assuring them he's the captain and set course to the unknown, then went off to the engine room and pushed the throttle. In the meantime, hanged out with the guests and took their money.

But now, people aboard the boat wanna know when they're getting there, but he ain't got no clue because while he was down in the engine room trying to keep the boat go harder and further, the boat went off course, and got all of us into where we are now - nowhere, with gazillion gallons of spent fuel and cost behind us, requiring even more to get to any meaningful destination within limits of our lifetime.

He's not the true captain everybody was hoping for. He's a petty officer, lost in this mess, who just knows how to push the throttle pedal. And yell on others for failing

 

[h347h]

Pretty much just walking away from this game now... the only thing I wanted out of it was S42 and I'm pretty sure it isn't coming any time soon now.

http://www.idigitaltimes.com/star-c...-show-squadron-42-asks-fans-more-money-574515

 

[Cmdr Eagleboy]

Right after the end of the KS and whne the new website went up funds increase dramatically and consistently. There was a vote cast on the RSI website asking backers do they want the game bigger and better, continuing the strecth goals. The vote was a resounding "YES make the game bigger, better, and take your time doing so". So CIG did.

They did nothing to be precise. Moving goal posts isn't doing. Actually delivering is. Despite delays they should had SC 3.0 Alpha (or whatever CIG claims it will be) already running hot. Instead it is not even a real thing yet.

Also there was no vote. Grey market of ships wasn't voting, it was perfect storm of /fake promises/trailers and virtual goods. Or by very definition - pyramid scheme.

 

[SlickReed]

You, as a CEO of a multi-million crowdfunded company, cannot and should not allow for such a freedom of an important aspect of your company to be decided by ordinary people who got no clue about managing a company or developing games.
It is unprofessional and irresponsible thing to do, due to a fact that in this equation there's a thing called "accountability", and one day someone will have to be held accountable if the project fails.

So, now who's it gonna be?
CR (CIG), or greedy backers who "wanted more"? Do you get the problem? They've introduced the second variable in case of their responsibility - the backers.
Do you remember CR already blaming it once before on the backers?

You could possibly give such power to backers once you worked out the complete outcome in both cases, whether they chose to finish now or continue the development (but then have it defined to which extent), making sure you'll be able to pull it off.

What he did was, built the crowdfunded hype boat, loaded it up with guests, showed them pretty pictures of their paradise-lookalike destination, put himself at the helm assuring them he's the captain and set course to the unknown, then went off to the engine room and pushed the throttle. In the meantime, hanged out with the guests and took their money.

But now, people aboard the boat wanna know when they're getting there, but he ain't got no clue because while he was down in the engine room trying to keep the boat go harder and further, the boat went off course, and got all of us into where we are now - nowhere, with gazillion gallons of spent fuel and cost behind us, requiring even more to get to any meaningful destination within limits of our lifetime.

He's not the true captain everybody was hoping for. He's a petty officer, lost in this mess, who just knows how to push the throttle pedal. And yell on others for failing

Well CR did release their internal development schedule to answer the management concerns. I think you are running away with my previous post about the unknown scope of how big the game will be, perhaps thats my fault. The fact is that CIG has a plan for what they want to achieve but they are also learning as they go and they get better with each update, that doesnt mean that progress is not being made (see my previous 2012 vs 2016 video), its just not being made at the speed of the minority wants and funding for each ships sell proves that the majority wants only the best from the game. Only time will tell that story tho.

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Also there was no vote. Grey market of ships wasn't voting, it was perfect storm of /fake promises/trailers and virtual goods. Or by very definition - pyramid scheme.

"This brings me to the topic of stretch goals. When we started the Star Citizen campaign, the purpose of the stretch goals was to make things we had imagined but didn’t think we could afford possible: adding capital ship systems, studying procedural generation, hiring additional artists to build more ships at once and the like. The additional funding continues to expand the scope of the game and make what we’re doing possible… but it’s becoming more and more difficult to quantify that with more stretch goals (and to explain that to the rest of the world, which likes to focus only on how much money we’ve made.)"


"My preference would be to use these letters going forward to update you on what we’re already doing with the money; sharing additional parts of Star Citizen’s development. We would also continue to award flare and other extras to our backers as we hit milestones, whether they’re funding or schedule-related. If we discover additional technologies or come up with new elements to the game’s design we want to incorporate, we’ll let you know about those as they happen. But this is a decision for the community: let me know what you think in the poll below."

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/13944-Letter-From-The-Chairman-46-Million