So you want to know about the Formidine Rift? (Part 3)

[Mathew of Tegalus]

Jaiotu You have my respect mate !

Frontier & Drew dropped the ball on big time over the cg ,the rift , the CTD and your expedition . They ignored the rift thread and you had to post in another thread to get there attention ! They posted your galnet post and had a cg dealing with the rift search going over the same time frame and then forgot about it, im anoyed that they are treating the whole thing as a joke / minor issue and i dont blame anyone else for feeling the same.
I think a explantion from mb and drew would be good after all how much time has everyone lost chasing things that are bugged or dont exist .

End rant

Do agree on each of the points; It does feel like this thread isn't watched, and I've already made my point on the CTD's. It's starting to run the risk of becoming the running joke in here. 1) Encountering CTD's? We found content. 2) You looking for content? Look for CTD's. 3) With both Barnacles and these surface sites being CTD's when first introduced, a precedent is beginning to be set when storyline content is introduced. One may even call it a "Dangerous" precedent..(I'll leave now) It's Always going to be bugged until something changes in the entire implementation strategy.

 

[Siranui]

The biggest problem the Rift mystery has is that after the efforts of everyone like the CoR, Jaiotu and the dozens/hundreds of independent commanders getting involved, not only in the CG but through the personal investment of time and the co-ordination and organisation of those efforts in mapping the region, reporting findings and discussing it, that whatever is actually there can only be an anti-climax.

Glass half full?

C'mon: Chin up! Elite is still awesome. It's not like we purchased it for the Rift mystery and others, or pay a subscription for regular story updates and GMed events - these are bonus point rounds we never expected. If the mysteries are frustrating you, put them down for a while and come back to it.

FD are comprised of human beings who make mistakes. They're learning and doing something new. Maybe if they'd have headhunted a bunch of people from Blizzard they could have avoided some of the issues, but we might have a far less interesting and original game in exchange for that.

If the 'mysteries' seem tired to you, I recommend this for perspective: Get around a non-ED playing friend and spend a couple of hours telling them about the Rift, the 1:1 scale rendition of the galaxy, and various mysteries and showing them a few screenshots. Watch their jaws drop. It's a good reminder that we're involved in something really rather original and exciting.

 

[Karla]

The biggest problem the Rift mystery has is that after the efforts of everyone like the CoR, Jaiotu and the dozens/hundreds of independent commanders getting involved, not only in the CG but through the personal investment of time and the co-ordination and organisation of those efforts in mapping the region, reporting findings and discussing it, that whatever is actually there can only be an anti-climax.

That's why I was really hoping that Jaiotu was right about the mystery being missing stars. It would have led to a much larger mystery which could have had big implications for the game in a few years time. The best mysteries always lead to more questions.

 

[Jaiotu]

Glass half full?

C'mon: Chin up! Elite is still awesome. It's not like we purchased it for the Rift mystery and others, or pay a subscription for regular story updates and GMed events - these are bonus point rounds we never expected. If the mysteries are frustrating you, put them down for a while and come back to it.

FD are comprised of human beings who make mistakes. They're learning and doing something new. Maybe if they'd have headhunted a bunch of people from Blizzard they could have avoided some of the issues, but we might have a far less interesting and original game in exchange for that.

If the 'mysteries' seem tired to you, I recommend this for perspective: Get around a non-ED playing friend and spend a couple of hours telling them about the Rift, the 1:1 scale rendition of the galaxy, and various mysteries and showing them a few screenshots. Watch their jaws drop. It's a good reminder that we're involved in something really rather original and exciting.

Oh yeah. Elite Dangerous is a terrific game. We all need to remind ourselves that this is a work in progress. Bound to be some rough edges and were all bound to get scratched by those edges from time to time.

Time to brush it off and move forward.

 

[CMDR AKIRA MASAKARI]

In my opinion trying to solve the misteries with "meta-FDeving" is not good, and especially not fun.
Anything that goes on the line: "This theory is valid becouse FDev didn't state otherwise", or "Let's demostrate this theory by pushing FD a reply." simply destroyes any joy and immersion for me.

I do hope that FDev won't answer any question related to any mistery anymore. They should be storytellers, and the Cas A theory should have been dismissed by lack of evidences, not a FDev post.
That has been a sad day for me.

I can understand the frustation, and i blame FDev for having answered, not Jaiotu for having asked. It's years we are investigating the Fromidine Mystery, some of us dedicaded a lot of time to it and answers don't come. In my opinion if someone is frustated it's better to take a pause and do one of the many other activities the game has to offer.

I don't want to censor anyone, but a theory or a series of clues being dismissed by an author post really kills every storytelling possible.

 

[Masheikh Scytale]

The Rift mystery is there. It is humanly possible to get resolved. Just with "a pen and a paper". We'll find it. FDevs just tell us when we are taking a bug for a clue, please, but NOTHING MORE!
I am sure we would be dozens very upset by some kind of "video-clue" or rubbish " Hunt " Granger-style...

 

[Jaiotu]

In my opinion trying to solve the misteries with "meta-FDeving" is not good, and especially not fun.
Anything that goes on the line: "This theory is valid becouse FDev didn't state otherwise", or "Let's demostrate this theory by pushing FD a reply." simply destroyes any joy and immersion for me.

I do hope that FDev won't answer any question related to any mistery anymore. They should be storytellers, and the Cas A theory should have been dismissed by lack of evidences, not a FDev post.
That has been a sad day for me.

I can understand the frustation, and i blame FDev for having answered, not Jaiotu for having asked. It's years we are investigating the Fromidine Mystery, some of us dedicaded a lot of time to it and answers don't come. In my opinion if someone is frustated it's better to take a pause and do one of the many other activities the game has to offer.

I don't want to censor anyone, but a theory or a series of clues being dismissed by an author post really kills every storytelling possible.

The reason I asked the question was partly prompted by Frontier's recent press release for the Playstation 4 release in which David Braben is quoted saying that, basically, every star in the Milky Way is actually in game for us to visit. It is now quite evident that this is not the case, and I'm fine with that. We now have a much better idea of what stars are and aren't going to be in the game so we no longer have to base theories off of simple omissions.

Sorry to break your immersion but imagine how broken my immersion was when, after Frontier published my announcement for an expedition to find Cassiopeia A, the final result is nothing but silence.

So long as Frontier's message remained "every star is out there for you to visit" in a "1:1 recreation of the Milky Way" then the absence of certain stars in the game, especially when they are in close proximity where we know that there is a riddle to be unlocked, is a HUGE problem. I shudder to think of the months of gameplay that I was on the verge of devoting to toward finding similar phenomenon in the Conflux and Hawkins Gap.

I take my immersion pretty seriously too. The things I do in-game are always "in character" and I've always got a light roleplaying narrative running in my own head. I just spent several months devoted to finding an object in the galaxy that, apparently, never existed in "this version" of reality. I really don't even know how to incorporate this turn of events into my internal narrative. How did Finn McMillan know about Cassiopeia A since astronomers on "this version of Earth" never would have detected such an object?

 

[Mathew of Tegalus]

The reason I asked the question was partly prompted by Frontier's recent press release for the Playstation 4 release in which David Braben is quoted saying that, basically, every star in the Milky Way is actually in game for us to visit. It is now quite evident that this is not the case, and I'm fine with that. We now have a much better idea of what stars are and aren't going to be in the game so we no longer have to base theories off of simple omissions.

Sorry to break your immersion but imagine how broken my immersion was when, after Frontier published my announcement for an expedition to find Cassiopeia A, the final result is nothing but silence.

So long as Frontier's message remained "every star is out there for you to visit" in a "1:1 recreation of the Milky Way" then the absence of certain stars in the game, especially when they are in close proximity where we know that there is a riddle to be unlocked, is a HUGE problem. I shudder to think of the months of gameplay that I was on the verge of devoting to toward finding similar phenomenon in the Conflux and Hawkins Gap.

I take my immersion pretty seriously too. The things I do in-game are always "in character" and I've always got a light roleplaying narrative running in my own head. I just spent several months devoted to finding an object in the galaxy that, apparently, never existed in "this version" of reality. I really don't even know how to incorporate this turn of events into my internal narrative. How did Finn McMillan know about Cassiopeia A since astronomers on "this version of Earth" never would have detected such an object?

And of course; if we run with the idea that it never has existed in this universe - it all comes back to the galnet post being published - How did you know about CasA?, what is CasA? are you a mad loon like that alien conspiracy theorist who was around wanting to talk to Halsey amongst others? Posits a big continuity issue. Also, slight issue when they say ever star is there, when it isn't (minus of course situations where there is an excuse for it being missing, i.e what you'd hoped with your project). Not a major issue IMO, but it just doesn't sit right in the grand scheme of things.

As for your internal narrative; well, that's a hole and a half that your stuck in and it doesn't sound easy to dig out of - and it's hardly your fault either. I mean, aside from complete mental insanity (in which case; we're sending you to the same place Halsey went to on Mars!) which obviously wouldn't run very well(unless of course your guy is into those things). You could maybe try pass it off as something like some old veteran elite explorer told one of those old wives tales sort of thing where it's like an urban legend, it doesn't really exist, maybe it was like trying to find The Lost City of The Ancients - Atlantis? Many try and look for it, never been found, probably doesn't exist. It is indeed an interesting quandary.

 

[Jaiotu]

And of course; if we run with the idea that it never has existed in this universe - it all comes back to the galnet post being published - How did you know about CasA?, what is CasA? are you a mad loon like that alien conspiracy theorist who was around wanting to talk to Halsey amongst others? Posits a big continuity issue.

LOL. That Galnet article with "noted conspiracy theorist Ricardo Bentonio" was one of my submissions so yeah, I guess Finn McMillan can fit into that category now

I did dig up Bentonio for one of my suggested submissions to explain why Cassiopeia A is missing. Here's the text from my rejected submission:

The Cassiopeia Project, an expedition to locate the supernova remnants of Cassiopeia A and Tycho’s Star, has concluded and the acquired data has been delivered for processing. Although the team hasn’t released any claims of success or failure that hasn’t stopped some members of the galactic community from reaching their own conclusions.

One transmission that has reached the galactic news feeds comes from well-known conspiracy theorist Ricardo Bentonio. “They’re gone,” announced Bentonio. “Simply vanished from the galaxy. Something out there has the power to hide or completely erase entire stars. Mark my words! This represents the greatest threat mankind has ever faced.”

Others have expressed a more reserved conclusion. Professor Steven Eisler, himself a participant in the expedition, reported that, “we may very well have made an error in our calculations and been searching the wrong part of the galaxy. We did find possible candidates for both supernova remnants but there’s not enough evidence to reach a clear verdict.”

 

[Zeeman]

The Rift mystery is there. It is humanly possible to get resolved. Just with "a pen and a paper". We'll find it. FDevs just tell us when we are taking a bug for a clue, please, but NOTHING MORE!
I am sure we would be dozens very upset by some kind of "video-clue" or rubbish " Hunt " Granger-style...

Actually, to be honest, this bugs me to hell about this game. I don't want to use pen and paper, my hand writing is awful, and I bought a Warthog HOTAS and VR headset for a reason. If I can't solve it in game, with in game tools... See where I am going with this? Do I need a pen and paper? Give me an in . game notepad, then, and let me draw with the damn mouse if it's needed...

Z...

 

[Masheikh Scytale]

Actually, to be honest, this bugs me to hell about this game. I don't want to use pen and paper, my hand writing is awful, and I bought a Warthog HOTAS and VR headset for a reason. If I can't solve it in game, with in game tools... See where I am going with this? Do I need a pen and paper? Give me an in . game notepad, then, and let me draw with the damn mouse if it's needed...

Z...

Must be related to drawing clusters and constellations, I bet DB used a way of speaking.

 

[Mathew of Tegalus]

LOL. That Galnet article with "noted conspiracy theorist Ricardo Bentonio" was one of my submissions so yeah, I guess Finn McMillan can fit into that category now

I did dig up Bentonio for one of my suggested submissions to explain why Cassiopeia A is missing. Here's the text from my rejected submission:

The Cassiopeia Project, an expedition to locate the supernova remnants of Cassiopeia A and Tycho’s Star, has concluded and the acquired data has been delivered for processing. Although the team hasn’t released any claims of success or failure that hasn’t stopped some members of the galactic community from reaching their own conclusions.

One transmission that has reached the galactic news feeds comes from well-known conspiracy theorist Ricardo Bentonio. “They’re gone,” announced Bentonio. “Simply vanished from the galaxy. Something out there has the power to hide or completely erase entire stars. Mark my words! This represents the greatest threat mankind has ever faced.”

Others have expressed a more reserved conclusion. Professor Steven Eisler, himself a participant in the expedition, reported that, “we may very well have made an error in our calculations and been searching the wrong part of the galaxy. We did find possible candidates for both supernova remnants but there’s not enough evidence to reach a clear verdict.”

Ah, I must of missed that if you did post it in here earlier; but yeah that's who I was on about

Must be related to drawing clusters and constellations, I bet DB used a way of speaking.

Don't think i've seen that been posited here yet; might be worth a shot but in the end, What constellations, from where, and subsequently what would it give us? I won't pretend to know a dime about constellations, the only thing close to one i can see in the night sky looks like ; two stars in a line with a third off the bottom left, always see it and have no clue what it is - UK perspective fyi. But even if we pick a constellation to "map" i.e draw out, we have the huge issue of where do we draw it from? Drawing it from Earth is one solution, but from my limited knowledge that really won't help us much? so maybe from the centre point between H&S - although I'm really not talking with authority, it's way over my head

 

[Masheikh Scytale]

Ah, I must of missed that if you did post it in here earlier; but yeah that's who I was on about



Don't think i've seen that been posited here yet; might be worth a shot but in the end, What constellations, from where, and subsequently what would it give us? I won't pretend to know a dime about constellations, the only thing close to one i can see in the night sky looks like ; two stars in a line with a third off the bottom left, always see it and have no clue what it is - UK perspective fyi. But even if we pick a constellation to "map" i.e draw out, we have the huge issue of where do we draw it from? Drawing it from Earth is one solution, but from my limited knowledge that really won't help us much? so maybe from the centre point between H&S - although I'm really not talking with authority, it's way over my head

All your interrogations are very ..Rift-ish. Good ! [yesnod]

 

[Jorki Rasalas]

The reason I asked the question was partly prompted by Frontier's recent press release for the Playstation 4 release in which David Braben is quoted saying that, basically, every star in the Milky Way is actually in game for us to visit. It is now quite evident that this is not the case, and I'm fine with that. We now have a much better idea of what stars are and aren't going to be in the game so we no longer have to base theories off of simple omissions.

Sorry to break your immersion but imagine how broken my immersion was when, after Frontier published my announcement for an expedition to find Cassiopeia A, the final result is nothing but silence.

So long as Frontier's message remained "every star is out there for you to visit" in a "1:1 recreation of the Milky Way" then the absence of certain stars in the game, especially when they are in close proximity where we know that there is a riddle to be unlocked, is a HUGE problem. I shudder to think of the months of gameplay that I was on the verge of devoting to toward finding similar phenomenon in the Conflux and Hawkins Gap.

I take my immersion pretty seriously too. The things I do in-game are always "in character" and I've always got a light roleplaying narrative running in my own head. I just spent several months devoted to finding an object in the galaxy that, apparently, never existed in "this version" of reality. I really don't even know how to incorporate this turn of events into my internal narrative. How did Finn McMillan know about Cassiopeia A since astronomers on "this version of Earth" never would have detected such an object?

I agree; FD have produced a good game, which *could* be absolutely awesome. The basic mechanics are there, but it needs storylines which are evident, continuous, valid, immersive and consistent; otherwise it becomes just grind. I think FD are trying to do that but they have concentrated on the long term & seem to have forgotten that to keep a large player base interested we need lots of short-term plots which fit into the longer term. Powerplay just doesn't cut it for me. Salome & the Rift has been very good but we have made no obvious progress in finding the FR mystery and that is getting rather irritating. The old lady spotted something (it's implied relatively easily), so why can't we? The missing stars were a good theory but that has now been squashed & as you point out that in itself has adversely affected immersion because FD have done it inconsistently.

I have said it before several times but I think there is some discontinuity in FD's QA and storyline processes. Hence we are apparently still seeing live in-game spawning issues etc which were flagged up over a year ago; it was barnacles then, but now it's some abandoned surface bases. Why weren't the CTDs detected by QA testing? If it's because there is limited dissemination of knowledge about the storylines then the QA processes need update accordingly.

I'm reminded of a story I heard years ago; don't know if it was true but I think it demonstrates what FD need to put into place. Apparently IBM had a QA group; they set themselves apart, wore similar hats & suits and tried hard to break anything new that was going into production. A new disc drive (i.e. a large cabinet, this was the 60s/70s!) was introduced & they tried hard to find any faults in it but weren't having any luck; then a guy had an idea, scratched his head, got out his slide rule (for the younger generation Google it!), did some calculations, smiled to himself, wrote a program and started to run it. After the while the disc drive started to vibrate, then shake, & eventually it fell over. He had fathomed out its resonant frequency & his program moved the read/write heads at the appropriate rate to hit it. I think FD's QA guys need to get a bit of that mentality, & the storyline setters need to liaise better with the testers.

 

[Siranui]

I think FD are trying to do that but they have concentrated on the long term & seem to have forgotten that to keep a large player base interested we need lots of short-term plots

I would state the counter-point that the game is still very much in development, and time invested in short-term plots is less time building the base game. The base game is very much the priority, especially as we are not paying monthly subscription charges for short-term plots. Essentially, time spent by FD on such things pushes back the 'complete' game and is in many ways rather a waste.

IBM's guys *all* used to dress the same, regardless of what they did: blue suits all round. Interestingly, the HDD resonance trick is exactly what was done to the centrifuges* that Iran was using.

*Or 'damned pharmaceutical isolaters!' as we would call them.

 

[Jaiotu]

I would state the counter-point that the game is still very much in development, and time invested in short-term plots is less time building the base game. The base game is very much the priority, especially as we are not paying monthly subscription charges for short-term plots. Essentially, time spent by FD on such things pushes back the 'complete' game and is in many ways rather a waste.

I agree that the focus should be on long-term development and tools that help the developers create dynamic content on the fly rather then short-term tailor made content.

More importantly though I think that we, The Formidine Rifters, need to take a deep breath and look back at the last few pages of this thread. We have moved so far off topic and it looks like I'm very much to blame either directly or indirectly for a large portion of that. I don't know about the rest of you but I'm ready to go back to happy optimism and away from the depressing pessimism.

This past year has been filled with ups and downs in regards to this mystery. Client update should be released in a few weeks so lets pull out of this nosedive and get back to being the ever-persistent Rifters that we are.

 

[Jorki Rasalas]

I agree that the focus should be on long-term development and tools that help the developers create dynamic content on the fly rather then short-term tailor made content.

More importantly though I think that we, The Formidine Rifters, need to take a deep breath and look back at the last few pages of this thread. We have moved so far off topic and it looks like I'm very much to blame either directly or indirectly for a large portion of that. I don't know about the rest of you but I'm ready to go back to happy optimism and away from the depressing pessimism.

This past year has been filled with ups and downs in regards to this mystery. Client update should be released in a few weeks so lets pull out of this nosedive and get back to being the ever-persistent Rifters that we are.

Agreed, though think it's symptomatic of having to wait until the update to continue the search. I have, I think, asked this before but didn't see a response so I'm asking now- CTDs were found for FR & Conflux but I don't think for Hawkings Gap. Am I wrong? Did nobody investigate surfaces for:
PLAA AEC XZ-Z B41-0 A1
PLAA AEC IZ-N C20-1 A1A
PLAA AEC TT-B B41-3 B1 (or B2?)
PLAA AEC RY-B B41-1 2B

 

[CMDR AKIRA MASAKARI]

Agreed, though think it's symptomatic of having to wait until the update to continue the search. I have, I think, asked this before but didn't see a response so I'm asking now- CTDs were found for FR & Conflux but I don't think for Hawkings Gap. Am I wrong? Did nobody investigate surfaces for:
PLAA AEC XZ-Z B41-0 A1
PLAA AEC IZ-N C20-1 A1A
PLAA AEC TT-B B41-3 B1 (or B2?)
PLAA AEC RY-B B41-1 2B

You are right, the gap agri base location must be discovered yet, and now it's disabled so there's no wy to find it atm.

 

[Jaiotu]

You are right, the gap agri base location must be discovered yet, and now it's disabled so there's no wy to find it atm.

We'll probably need to find the one in the Gap for all three locations to make sense or, at least, tell the whole story. All of this makes me very eager for the next client update.

 

[Edelgard von Rhein]

I agree that the focus should be on long-term development and tools that help the developers create dynamic content on the fly rather then short-term tailor made content.

More importantly though I think that we, The Formidine Rifters, need to take a deep breath and look back at the last few pages of this thread. We have moved so far off topic and it looks like I'm very much to blame either directly or indirectly for a large portion of that. I don't know about the rest of you but I'm ready to go back to happy optimism and away from the depressing pessimism.

This past year has been filled with ups and downs in regards to this mystery. Client update should be released in a few weeks so lets pull out of this nosedive and get back to being the ever-persistent Rifters that we are.

/positivityreturns
What do you think of this idea for the original Rift mystery: Earth-like Worlds with cratered and scarred surfaces where cities used to be?
(I would suggest also to check Ammonia Worlds but some of those have a very thick atmosphere that obscures surface details, though it might be a possibility for some).
.
There has been the capacity for custom surface textures since launch, as can be seen from the examples within Sol, so this is something that could have been done for a number of selected worlds over a region of space in order to have a chance of a single commander finding it - they just have to fly close enough to see it. It would not be a POI and it would raise questions rather than answers - a good 'next step' that would demand further investigations of the locality to establish how wide a region was affected. If this guess is right, though, then there's a good chance that these bombed-out Earth-like or Ammonia Worlds are within 200LY of the beacon sites. Worth a flyby, perhaps?
.
These are the six Earth-like Worlds current known within EAFOTS on the list ( https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/168287-List-of-Earth-like-worlds-v2 ):
EAFOTS CQ-Y D3 12
EAFOTS GI-B D13-13 5
EAFOTS RI-B D13-98 4
EAFOTS SL-R B33-1 A1
EAFOTS TW-U C16-8 A5
EAFOTS UO-Z D13-111 1
There are also two more that I have found (not sure why they are not on there yet, I submitted three at the same time)
EAFOTS GI-B D13-28 B7
EAFOTS GI-B D13-60 B4
.
My own survey of EAFOTS only yielded one Ammonia World:
EAFOTS GI-B D13-80 6