Frontier. Please make a PVE mode to this game.

[Xender]

While it may be a really bad compromise, in your opinion, the single shared galaxy state (that all players experience and affect, regardless of game mode or game platform) has been part of the published game design from the outset - and the game was successfully backed with this feature in place (alongside three game modes and mode mobility - to allow players to choose who they want to play with on a session-by-session basis).

As to 1, 2 or 3, here are some relevant quotes:

I bough game on Frontier store, few months after release. Before I bought it I don't know how internal game systems work etc. (except that multiplayer is based on p2p). I like Elite but in my opinion few things could work better. Even if this aspects of games are properly described on Kickstarter it doesn't mean that it could not be improved somehow, just look at it and how hot topic it is. The sentence: "Who stand still is to move backwards." is the best to describe current situation regarding Open/Solo modes.

For example if you create company called Stinky Taxi and you client complaints of that bad stink you should change even if it is core aspect of your company .

 

[Robert Maynard]

I dont think I lack insight, if players want PVE only god-mode servers they shouldnt play a game that portrays itself as a simulator.

If it was arcade, sure, but it isnt, so no.

You are conflating a desire to play without PvP with a perceived (derogatory) desire to play without any risk.

Many players want to play the game as Frontier designed it - and Frontier designed a game where there is absolutely no requirement to engage in PvP.

 

[excalibus]

I dont think I lack insight, if players want PVE only god-mode servers they shouldnt play a game that portrays itself as a simulator.

If it was arcade, sure, but it isnt, so no.

it's a game not a simulator (in my opinion), sure there is simulation going on in the background, but first and foremost elite (the whole franchise) is a series of video games...

DB never set out to create a simulator, that was not the premise I was sold on, it was a game set in space and a continuation of the franchise that I personally was sold on...

How is a PVE mode is god mode??? Honestly you must be simply seeking attention to dramatise it as such...
All a PVE mode would have different to the current open mode is a lack of PVP play style... Depending how it was implemented there may not even need to be that much changed in the regards of its implementation, I for one would prefer it to be a kick ban system where Players who go there to commit acts of PVP end up banned from going there altogether...

Honestly, I do understand why you actually fear such a mode being implemented, the fear of players being able to easily choose a multiplayer alternative to the current mixed mode open probably scares the bejeezus out of PVP players for fear of lack of targets, for fear of only being left with other PVP centric or capable pilots in their instance... Yup I think I can understand your fear...

 

[MassiveD]

Maybe because since playing Elite back in the 80s, I've wanted to play a multi-role Cobra MkIII rather than a super optimised blockade runner? At the moment, I have 10.6 Million in the bank, my My Sidewinder gathering dust in the starter system, my Freagle and my Cobra MkIII in Shinrata Dezhra. I'm there because I was involved in the Kick Starter, not because I'm Elite at anything. Just because I can do something just to compete against a given meta, doesn't mean I should have to just to play. My 'end game' ship is an Asp for Braben's sake, I have no interest in building a ship to go up against other players, I just want to tool around in a spaceship and I don't have to do that in conflict with players. I'd quite like to do it with other players tho.

As far as it goes, and this may be super hard for some people to understand, I'm enjoying running courier missions, fighting NPCs, and otherwise not interacting with players that are trying to blow me up. Will I stay in Solo for the rest of my game time? Well... Maybe, I'm enjoying it, but I do miss the finally delivered promise of the '80s rumours - multiplayer. But what is the fun for me in having to play your game when I could instead play my game, over here, in Solo, Group, or, just maybe, in an official Open PVE server? Group PVE has been going on since before Engineers, Engineers has just made the gulf between playing styles wider.

How exactly do your choises translate into a mainstream narrative for the entire community?

As I said, everybody has a free choice to do whatever they want, as long as they are adult enough to accept that the choise is their own responsibility, and not everybody elses.

As an example, I saw a BF1 stream the other day , and the guy was refusing to pick a weapon, but was instead running around the warzone using nothing but his medpack to heal other players. That is a valid choice, an interesting one, but it uses the tools provided in the game, and makes it work for himself the way he wants to, which is awesome. However, if he then went on forums, and complained that others are using guns, and that there should be a server in where medics could playing alongside other medics and not worry about being shot in the face, admit it... It would sound a little bit silly

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You are conflating a desire to play without PvP with a perceived (derogatory) desire to play without any risk.

Many players want to play the game as Frontier designed it - and Frontier designed a game where there is absolutely no requirement to engage in PvP.

Yes, and in Open you are not required to engage in PVP. Infact we made a T7 build that makes you immune to any form of PVP. I'll post it later today

 

[Robert Maynard]

I bough game on Frontier store, few months after release. Before I bought it I don't know how internal game systems work etc. (except that multiplayer is based on p2p). I like Elite but in my opinion few things could work better. Even if this aspects of games are properly described on Kickstarter it doesn't mean that it could not be improved somehow, just look at it and how hot topic it is. The sentence: "Who stand still is to move backwards." is the best to describe current situation regarding Open/Solo modes.

For example if you create company called Stinky Taxi and you client complaints of that bad stink you should change even if it is core aspect of your company .

This topic is about catering to the play-style of the, as Frontier have confirmed, majority of players who do not engage in PvP (and Frontier are well aware that they don't).

The game design (link to FAQ) talks of multiple Open groups (modes) where the rules of each can be different to suit different play-styles. We only currently have one Open mode with one rule-set - what is being requested is another Open mode that caters to the play-style of the majority.

As to whether changing the game as you proposed would "improve" the game, I expect that there are those who would not consider that such changes would, indeed, constitute an improvement.

Unlike Stinky Taxi, this game was successfully funded by backers who wanted to play the game described by the design information published by Frontier over four years ago.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Yes, and in Open you are not required to engage in PVP. Infact we made a T7 build that makes you immune to any form of PVP. I'll post it later today

Interdiction, by a player, is PvP.

 

[MassiveD]

Interdiction, by a player, is PvP.

Are interdictions by NPCs also PvP? They take the same ammount of time (on avarage 8 seconds to escape from), or do we really need those stickers since its the emotional problem?

 

[VR Lucian Arkright]

How exactly do your choises translate into a mainstream narrative for the entire community?

As I said, everybody has a free choice to do whatever they want, as long as they are adult enough to accept that the choise is their own responsibility, and not everybody elses.

As an example, I saw a BF1 stream the other day , and the guy was refusing to pick a weapon, but was instead running around the warzone using nothing but his medpack to heal other players. That is a valid choice, an interesting one, but it uses the tools provided in the game, and makes it work for himself the way he wants to, which is awesome. However, if he then went on forums, and complained that others are using guns, and that there should be a server in where medics could playing alongside other medics and not worry about being shot in the face, admit it... It would sound a little bit silly

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Yes, and in Open you are not required to engage in PVP. Infact we made a T7 build that makes you immune to any form of PVP. I'll post it later today

And in Red Dead Redemption, a mate and I ran some griefers off a public server after kiting them around the map away from other players, and then taking them down with tomahawks, while riding up a hill on donkeys. In a game like these (RDR and BF:1) all I risk is my KDR, which I never care about. I'll happily anti-grief, as I can do so on a level playing field very easily.

But I really don't get "How exactly do your choises translate into a mainstream narrative for the entire community?" - not being facetious, could you explain this so I can agree or refute?

 

[MarkAusten]

It's nothing more but a guise manufactured to hide players refusal to engineer their ships.

Unfortunately, this complaint can also be levelled at you, MD. Your argument, when stripped of the veiled insults and straw man topics boils down to "you must engineer your ships".

For some reason you either fail or deliberately ignore that, for many valid reasons, not everyone wishes to utilise the engineers and when that argument is raised your reaction is to accuse the players of being lazy and talk about "playing the victim card".

There is an old saying that when you have a new hammer, every problem looks like a nail and I think that this is the fallacy into which you have fallen. Engineering your ship is not the single solution to all PvE players dissatisfaction with Open that you would have it to be. Engineering your ship cannot, ever, solve the issue of a PvE player not wanting to engage in any shape or form with combat PvP. Not lazy, just playing differently from you.

As for your suggestion that not wanting to utilise a huge portion of the content is preposterous is firstly, only your opinion and secondly, since that huge portion of content is not, has never been and will never be mandatory, absurd in my opinion.

 

[Robert Maynard]

Are interdictions by NPCs also PvP? They take the same ammount of time (on avarage 8 seconds to escape from), or do we really need those stickers since its the emotional problem?

Nope - that's PvE.

.... and interdictions take about 30 to 50 seconds from start to successful high-wake arrival (if the escape is successful).

It's not an emotional problem and to characterise it as such demonstrates a lack of understanding and respect for player choices, in my opinion.

 

[MassiveD]

This topic is about catering to the play-style of the, as Frontier have confirmed, majority of players who do not engage in PvP (and Frontier are well aware that they don't).

The game design (link to FAQ) talks of multiple Open groups (modes) where the rules of each can be different to suit different play-styles. We only currently have one Open mode with one rule-set - what is being requested is another Open mode that caters to the play-style of the majority.

As to whether changing the game as you proposed would "improve" the game, I expect that there are those who would not consider that such changes would, indeed, constitute an improvement.

Unlike Stinky Taxi, this game was successfully funded by backers who wanted to play the game described by the design information published by Frontier over four years ago.

It is very clear that current population is barely large enough to support 1 mode.

When we have 30k avarage users online instead of 4-8k, then lets go nuts, implement open mode for each proffession, I'll be the first to bear the flag saying "yes please", but now the population is not large enough, so lets wait untill the developer decides that it is

 

[jgm]

Honestly, I do understand why you actually fear such a mode being implemented

I know this wasn't aimed at me, but my fear in adding such a mode is that it will suck up significant development time.

The reasoning behind this is that this mode requires different rules inside the game. It will require any number of areas where the code goes one way for the existing mode and another for PvE. Taking the number of game rules from 1 (i.e. hard-coded) to >1 (i.e. mode-dependent) will be significant work.

It will also open a can of worms as to what PvE means. Everyone can understand "player cannot shoot player" but there are many ways in which one player can antagonise another, from kill stealing to pad blocking to finding creative ways to use the existing authorities to destroy other players. Each of these will need to be debated, designed and coded to come to a resolution.

So although I don't care one way or the other about an open PvE mode, I do care that the work involved will take away from parts of the game that I do care about. The pace of development is very slow as it is; making any further development more complex due to multiple rule sets is not something I would want to see.

 

[MassiveD]

Nope - that's PvE.

.... and interdictions take about 30 to 50 seconds from start to successful high-wake arrival (if the escape is successful).

It's not an emotional problem and to characterise it as such demonstrates a lack of understanding and respect for player choices, in my opinion.

We did testing, if you submit immediately and high-wake while FA boosting , the entire encounter is barely 15 seconds long.

And as long as you have modified thrusters and shields, you are able to dodge those interdictions like a boss, be it NPC or player, so as I've mentioned before, yet again it boils down to players refusing to engineer a bit :/

 

[MarkAusten]

Are interdictions by NPCs also PvP? They take the same ammount of time (on avarage 8 seconds to escape from), or do we really need those stickers since its the emotional problem?

I think in the strict definition of PvP, NPC interdictions are not PvP. Perhaps you could explain if this is incorrect. thanks.

 

[Robert Maynard]

It is very clear that current population is barely large enough to support 1 mode.

When we have 30k avarage users online instead of 4-8k, then lets go nuts, implement open mode for each proffession, I'll be the first to bear the flag saying "yes please", but now the population is not large enough, so lets wait untill the developer decides that it is

The three modes have existed from the outset - the game was designed around them (and the single shared galaxy state).

What basis do you have for your estimate of the number of players (given that there's no requirement to launch through Steam and XB1 players cannot do so)?

Bear in mind that, even when the PS4 version is released, we do not expect to cross-play with those players, just as we don't cross-play with XB1 players - the number of players spans all modes and platforms.

 

[MassiveD]

I know this wasn't aimed at me, but my fear in adding such a mode is that it will suck up significant development time.

The reasoning behind this is that this mode requires different rules inside the game. It will require any number of areas where the code goes one way for the existing mode and another for PvE. Taking the number of game rules from 1 (i.e. hard-coded) to >1 (i.e. mode-dependent) will be significant work.

It will also open a can of worms as to what PvE means. Everyone can understand "player cannot shoot player" but there are many ways in which one player can antagonise another, from kill stealing to pad blocking to finding creative ways to use the existing authorities to destroy other players. Each of these will need to be debated, designed and coded to come to a resolution.

So although I don't care one way or the other about an open PvE mode, I do care that the work involved will take away from parts of the game that I do care about. The pace of development is very slow as it is; making any further development more complex due to multiple rule sets is not something I would want to see.

My fear is a clear population.

Lets increase population first, and then have all the modes, no one will care how many, litteraly not a soul will care

 

[Robert Maynard]

We did testing, if you submit immediately and high-wake while FA boosting , the entire encounter is barely 15 seconds long.

And as long as you have modified thrusters and shields, you are able to dodge those interdictions like a boss, be it NPC or player, so as I've mentioned before, yet again it boils down to players refusing to engineer a bit :/

Submission takes time; dropping into normal space takes time; the FSD takes c.10 seconds to become available (after a few seconds delay on dropping to normal space before the timer starts); the player requires to select a system to high-wake to; the FSD takes about 15 seconds to charge for a hyper-jump; the jump itself takes time - and the player is not in the system they wanted to be in in the first place.

None of the above depends on Engineers.

Dodge the interdiction itself in SuperCruise or the attacker in normal space?

 

[MarkAusten]

We did testing, if you submit immediately and high-wake while FA boosting , the entire encounter is barely 15 seconds long.

And as long as you have modified thrusters and shields, you are able to dodge those interdictions like a boss, be it NPC or player, so as I've mentioned before, yet again it boils down to players refusing to engineer a bit :/

Not always. There have been times when I have been interdicted recently and the interdiction fail has been virtually immediate causing at least a 40 seconds delay before the FSD comes back on line. Considering that my finger hovers over the zero throttle key and almost by reflex press the button when an interdiction starts I think I can safely say that it is not always possible to submit.

Decidedly a PITA, but it does happen.

But there again, you have brought up the "you must engineer your ship argument".

 

[MassiveD]

The three modes have existed from the outset - the game was designed around them (and the single shared galaxy state).

What basis do you have for your estimate of the number of players (given that there's no requirement to launch through Steam and XB1 players cannot do so)?

Bear in mind that, even when the PS4 version is released, we do not expect to cross-play with those players, just as we don't cross-play with XB1 players - the number of players spans all modes and platforms.

Untill official spreadsheets are released it is safe to say that steam / non steam is 50/50, on avarage that translates accross a variety of other games like Division.

And its far more accurate than pulling a random number out of your hat.

Platform crossing is clearly a controller issue because mouse and keyboard master race

 

[VR Lucian Arkright]

My fear is a clear population.

Lets increase population first, and then have all the modes, no one will care how many, litteraly not a soul will care

But increasing the population won't happen into a play mode that players do not desire.