I should have been clearer, it's not about the fines they will be relatively minor; the flight training is where it'll hurt. Besides the normal speed restrictions will still apply.
And yes collisions where no damage was done will only result in a warning. I admit the system isn't perfect but it doesn't have to be it only need to take the fun out off station griefing and the fun in this case comes from knowing you've cost an other player a lot of credits. My system will still sting but not nearly as much which makes it less fun to the griefer and the time investment of the (lengthy) flight training is (hopefully) going to discourage even further.
The point is to make it less attractive because making it impossible is...er... heh impossible.
All it will do is give the griefer another way to grief... For the 'griefer' it is not so much about the credit cost to the victim, it is about causing the victim to be unable to play their way, this will probably have only ONE inforseen (as you did not mention it) benefit which comes with an equally negative side for the overall game (given players may well quit as a result should they suffer it) and that unforseen 'benefit' is that for this to work effectively, griefers would need to retarget the same individual more than a few times... then the griefer simply resets their save and gets in their new shiny freewinder and rinses and repeats...
Sure it could be locked to account... But I tell you right now I would be majorly peaved, if some griefer hit me a few times, then later on, I inadvertently swiped another player during a CG event and suddenly I was having to play some cruddy flight school... heck I do not even have the tutorial missions installed ... Oh wait they are part of the main installation now??? when did that happen - rehtorical question I think you get my meaning...
so net result, griefer wins...
There seems to me to be three broad styles of play and I'm not going to the terms PvE or PvP as they carry negative and misleading connotations.
So, there's player like me who only play Solo. Call them Soloists. At the other end of the scale there are the players who are happy for combat with other players, call them the Combateers. There there are a third group of players that want co-operative player action but no combat with other players. These are the Co-operatives.
Soloists have Solo in which to play.
Combateers have the current Open in which to play
But the Cop-operative have nowhere. The only modes that exist either remove the no combat desire or the co-operative desire.
Mobius is a stop-gap, third-party solution but it is not ideal, restrictive and should only be seen a temporary.
So this proposed Open PvE mode is for the co-operatives.
Have I got it right, broadly speaking?
It does not matter what TAGS / LABELS you put on it mate, there is nothing negative IMO about either terms of PVE, PVP... the tags do not change the underlying play style... and both play styles (I see solo as PVE players) are as equally valid as each other and is also why there are a number of players who like the 'risk of PVP but not guaranteed' of the current open mode when playing the game...
Yes I do agree with you that Mobius groups are a stop gap for what should have been a mode for the game from the outset (again IMO)...
Neither do I and I think it can be enforced without changing the game mechanics at all. Ad voulenteer moderators and you have Open Mobius basically for free. Everybody is happy.
I would prefer to see a developed and enforced rule set system in place myself... A TOS / EULA system CAN work, but it also means a lot of back end staff work at least initially and would need to be enforced at an account level, that said I do believe there would be a certain number of current PVP players who would buy on sale accounts purely for the noteriety and, dare I say it, fame of PVPing in the PVE mode... much like what happened to the Mobius group that caused such an uproar on the forums earlier this year...
*slow clap*
He was referring to player vs player piracy. Don't twist stuff around.
Pirating NPCs is pointless. Actually piracy period is pointless. There isn't enough money made doing it.
Also. I'm not going to state what the game design is unless Lord Braben himself comes in here and lays it out. Anything beyond that is clutching at straws.
Infinite freedom.
Maybe just for fun I'll go fly a shieldless T9 and make a few million in open.
I enjoy piracy against NPC's, are you telling me my enjoyment of doing that is pointless when it gives me pleasure??? I am not saying it could not be more enjoyable but I do enjoy it when I do it
....
Anyway that is not what this thread is about so what was your point again with reference to an Open PVE mode?
Why would one assume pvp? I find FDs trailers to be missleading too in the opposite way. Horizons launch i saw a trailer with an attack on a base, ships and srvs working together however that is impossible outside of a group in a wing as FD as often happens did not cater to those not multiplayering.
But i was the fool for making the assumption that that content woukd be for all and not just like wings and aiming at multiplayers.
I bought a primariky pve game, which woukd have all features available for the solo player able to hire npcs if needed, just as was detailed pre release, where muktiplayer as an option in all its forms lF wanted. Sadly that is not what ED is
Indeed I was 'hoping' and to some extent expecting NPC wings... the ability to hire NPC ships to fly as wing mates, I really think FDEV shot themselves in the foot as far as at least open mode goes by not including this aspect of wings - with a small twist - the NPC wing mates would all have the same hollow rectangle as you... NPC tatgets can be in wings why not NPC wingmates - I never understood the decision not to include that feature myself...
You may represent a group interested in challenging PvP (however you define "represent"), but your actions on the forum are condescending, unhelpful, and make it impossible to reach a consensus. I can definitely see how people would dislike CODE if you present the same attitude in every thread about unwanted PvP. I tried being patient, I tried asking questions to get something out of you, but even that is apparently too much to ask for. I can't be bothered any more with you. Say hello to the few other people in my ignore list. It's a short one, but seems to be filled with people with similar attitudes, so you should be right at home.
Can I say, in GF's defense, that on the whole he is a quite reasonable person with whom you can actually have a good in depth discussion with? Yes he can get frustrated, no more or less than the rest of us do, that is just human nature... He and I often have disagreed on certain topics, and the times I have seen him post what appears to be chastising remarks, often are deserved by the recipient being either obtuse, equally frustrated, totally misrepresenting the situation (which has come to light on a couple of occasions at least that I am aware of), or simply not coming really prepared for an in depth, possibly game altering discussion. He does usually try to educate people as to why he is responding how he does at times...
Me personally, I have no qualms with him, I know that back in the day he had to 'defend' The Code against all sorts of accusations, of which, in hindsight, may have been 20% truths and 80% just plain ignorance or misrepresentation...
Now before you reply and say I am a GF fanboi, just know that I respect the dude for how he does conduct himself for the most part on these forums - and how he does actually discuss topics with a certain eloquence and poise, and will readily accept that you can disagree on aspects of a topic while still having a thought out conversation about it.
I really don't think that there is anything that can be done to persuade the true PvE players to engage in PvP and play in the current Open mode. Some may eventually try out PvP if they get bored with PvE but I believe the majority of PvE players will stay in Group/Solo. Therefore I don't see adding an Open PvE mode making much of a difference to the population of the current Open mode.
If there was an Open PvE mode, which I am neither for or against, there needs to be something added/changed to please the PvP crowd as compensation.
To start with, I suggest the following:-
- Clan/Guild/Faction (whatever you want to call it) chat.
- Clan/Guild/Faction (whatever you want to call it) tags.
- Combat orientated Community Goals which can only be done in Open PvP mode. This would not remove the other type of CG's that are currently available.
- An additional Ironman mode which can only be played in Open (PvP).
These are just initial suggestions and I'm sure PvP players can add to it, but moving forward, if we as a community were to agree with a Open PvE mode being added, then PvP players should get something in return.
As with all battles/disagreements, sometimes a compromise is the best way forward.
Ahh so there is felt some compensation is needed if an Open PVE mode was to be introduced. Compensation for what exactly?? For the likelyhood of less combat loggers in open? For the less 'unable to PVP combat' targets??? What is the compensation actually for? You make it sound like an open PVE mode would remove PVP accepting / PVP tolerant / PVP engaging players from open... I say straw... man...
I thought i'd add have a stab in the dark regarding people and the roles they play in E.D lol
Griefers are the type of people who can be the biggest arseholes for the pure enjoyment ... but is probably a very dedicated person in real life
Casual gamers in E.D who engage in PVE+PVP interaction are probably the individuals in life who have many social circles and probably able to relate in a very social setting
PVP gamers are probably the social justice warriors in real life.. showing concern for any injustices in real life.. and making a stand when necessary whilst enjoying the social aspect of their surrounding peers
Explorers are probably the bookworms with the institutionalised degree's and diploma's would be the individuals who are achievers in life
Pirates are probably the dreamers of the world who enjoy the grandeur of living out their fantasies
Combat CZ pilots are inline with people who love to hone their skills whatever they set their minds to
PVE BGS pilots are probably the Nature lovers of the world,
PVE Combat Pilots are those who have yet to experience the real world and all its wiles
PVE Pirates/bounty hunters are probably the animal lovers out there
Open combat pilots are fearless people who are not afraid to make mistakes whatever the world throws at them
Open PVE pilots are care free with the sense of being a social do-gooder, feeling the need to contribute in life
Open Pirates are probably people who are either politicians,lawyers and car dealers and have a gift of the gab
Umm 'for me' you got a heap wrong... since before release I only played in open - Just joined one of the Mobius groups after all this time. Today... Cheers MassiveD!!!
Casual gamers in E.D who engage in PVE+PVP interaction : wrong, I am / was not a casual gamer and I did engage in PVP and PVE a fair amount a while back but PVE mostly since about 6 months after release... I still love PVP big bash parties in beta hahahaha
PVE BGS pilots - wrong my job actually requires me to destroy reasonable swathes of nature... in the name of progress... and I love my job...
PVE Combat Pilots wrong... 2 divorces and 3 marriages including relationships across countries and cultures... I seriously beg to differ...
Open PVE pilots wrong... I am no social doo gooder that much is certain... I am not a miscreant either, but I guess you could say, I bend the rules to suit myself and those I care for...
I think you guys are just jealous at those who actually enjoy fighting and killing in open.
Yeah, that's why I played in open until today... I am so jealous of your e-peen oh noes... #gitovaureslf
No it doesn't, it makes me feel good. Because i won [big grin]
<SARCASM (just in case you don't allow you to understand this is funny at your expense) >
Yup you won... oh wait what did you win.. FIRST PRIZE in the 100,000,000 nigerian lottery, you only have to send me 1,253 us dollars via western union and I will send you the winning ticket!!!
</SARCASM>
If someone in passivemode need to be killed, aim with your car.....speeding and exit the vehicle so it continue driving in the players direction = mission done
Works great with jets and helis too haha
Ahh so you openly admit to using an inadvertant effect of an in game mechanism to circumvent the in game mechanics to protect those that do not want to play with you... Ahhh so you are indeed what would be seen as a GRIEFER...
I was going to reply to each of these posts, but based on your sig, and the content of your posts, you are not worthy of the effort... Nice try Troll!...
Apart from seeking attention why are you here??? Do you actually have anything of substance to add to the discussion or are you yet another one for the ignore list???
Please do see if you can manage to actually add something worthwhile and on topic to the discussion...
The crime and punishment system many feel will sort out what's wrong with the game will not change anything with regards to toxic players that have made the topic of wanting an open pve mode a popular topic. These type of players will seek out a way to troll players even at the cost of their own ships. Raming players outside stations is one example of the mentality these players get their kicks. While there are thousands of players that want to play in the true spirit of the game there are to many that want to turn elite into their own version COD and to boast to their peers their kill count. The only way open pve would ever work would be to something similar to what GTA5 does.
Trying hard to avoid the car crash happening in the thread!
To answer this, in GTA5 in open mode, you effectively untick a PvP consent check box that makes you inert to other player interaction. It ghosts you out on the map, and it prevents you from shooting, being hit, or physically interacting with another player. Even though you reside in the same instance, and can see everyone, and still talk to them unhindered.
Thanks Vorxian, I was going to ask the same thing, how was it handled in GTA 5...
I think a C&P system will always fall short, it'll never be a fair compromise, will always be imbalanced to the left or right.
What you (and the general Mobius population) has done for ED has made it very clear there is a massive PvE community out here that wish to work together to make the galaxy a prosperous place, so big that the limitations of player group has been exceeded (good job sir!). FDEV promoting the Mobius private group to an official PvE open mode would be the best and most prudent thing... even with all the will in the world and no one can deny the awesome job that has been accomplished, you'll still get toxic players run incursions into Mobius simply to put the cat among the pigeons; twitch / youtube the event for outside game publicity... Open PvE simply with no player to player damage & interdiction would suffice. That would stop 98% of the problem. The other 2% would likely come from desperate attempts to cause a level of griefing via other means such as camping the letterbox or trying to bump players into danger... tbh, so be it, I mean, if folks are willing to play like this then, it's on them. If someone is in OPEN PvE mode, spending their days blocking letterboxes, instead of being in the OPEN (PvP) mode, then it shows how important PvP mode really is.
In reality from a tiny tiny % of toxic players likely to tap into Open PvE, regular OPEN should also prosper. The liklihood is that anyone actively and deliberately inhabiting this mode will be fully consensual, and, overall it will increase the quality of PvP dweller living there. Much more meaningful PvP will take place, huge reduction in combat logging (which is the real qualm in PvP encounters), and overall a much needed increase in challenge when encountering other players, also most likely, traders in OPEN PvP mode are more likely to 'play ball' than tug the cable lol.
So there are a lot of pro's with an OPEN PvE proposal that will increase the overall game play experience of a broad spectrum of players. The fine details about griefing OPEN PvE are all pre-speculation, and as said earlier, if someone is in PvE to simply sit in the toaster to block people.. then I can only..
http://replygif.net/i/599.gif
you have to feel very sorry for them [squeeeee]
I wish I could rep you but apparently I need to umm... spread the love...
It's not a matter of me accusing things I don't agree with. It's people not having the fundamental ethics required to participate in a conversation. I don't walk into my conference without at least memorizing most of the topic that will be discussed that day, or at least carry a memo with me that reminds me of the things I will be talking about, or engaging with.
Having different opinions is totally fine, but having incompetence in preparation for engaging in a serious conversation/debate is something I despise.
Indeed, though TBH GF, you can come across as abrasive at times - even to ones not actually involved in the dialog, just saying... we all can be at times I know...
I'm not gonna say take a chill pill... and I know that you are showing restraint, from my experience at any rate, as well... I do agree people should read through a thread before they comment on it though... I often try to do exactly that...
if its too much work for them to police their own game then they should implement the block list, as outlined back in 2013. simple as that really, that way if i meet someone i do not want to meet again, it simply does not match make me with them. if that means i see less people so be it, that is my decision.
if FD are not willing to put the legwork in themselves (which they said they would btw, they promised account bans from modes where players broke the rules) well then the fall back should be that i play with players in my instance it should be at my pleasure and i block those that i don;t want to be with (again, this is not new, FD discussed this 3 or 4 years ago)...
I agree with the block list, i personally feel that if you block a player, they should (under no circumstance) be instanced with you, if that means that someone on your friends list is friends with them, then you should also not be instanced with that friend AND the blocked player at the same time - so if they are already playing together, you would not get instance with them and if the friend invited them to wing with you, the friend would be informed they are on your blocked list and cannot be invited... that sort of checking prior to instancing would alleviate a lot of problems because you would only need to deal with 'problem' players the once...
Something tells me going through reports of speculated "griefing" is much more complicated than combat logging (which can be indicated and qualified quickly by disconnection in the P2P architecture while connected with another peer). "Griefing," is much more complicated of a report, if I had to imagine.
I have to agree, they added in game telemetry for helping substantiate combat logging IMO... not so much to determine griefing by some of the various ways griefers operate...
*screenshot*
yup there's abusive language from someone who just killed you
*ban*
it's really no harder GF no matter how you try and dress it up. pretending to be a super-important conference speaker rather than just a student won't make it any more right either.
That would be lovely if it wasn't for photoshop or video editors existing... there would need to be telemetry to back up the screen shot IMO...
That said, once they did start to actively and publicly BAN players from the PVE mode perhaps that would see a definite shift in the number of occurrances.
And you despising something is your prerogative. However, not everyone has a edict memory like you and therefore not everyone is able to remember exactly what was said or may remember incorrectly. However, being quite so undiplomatic (read sarcastic, accusatory and other such words) does not help. It just makes people fed up with you and your opinions as you do not seem to be able to play nicely with those that are not as able as you are.
And right there, you lose the argument even if you are correct. It's way too easy to just say 'Oh GF again, skip him he's just being a PITA' and frankly I can see why. You either come across as acerbic or condescending and neither of which help people understand what you are trying to say. And so it escalates.
You have many good points in your arguments but they are outweighed by the tone in which you respond to those people that do not meet you exacting standards.
I doubt you go into the conferences you mentioned and talk to the delegates there in such a manner as you do on this forum.
Just looking back over your last 7 posts all but two of them have undiplomatic (I hesitate to say rude even though that's what I think) content, and one comes over as really condescending. Only one could be considered as reasonably balanced and informative.
Oh well. We've gone right off topic again and that's my fault. Sorry about that.
For a moment I was thinking you where replying to me hahaha - that whole cross quoting saga all over again...
Yes way way off topic...
I agree with what he was trying to say as well. I just disagreed with the bit that came over as really biased language.
Well I did not see it as biased myself... Perhaps I am biased then
... truth be told, I saw Mengy's post last night but did not reply until tonight... I did not even notice the edit to remove forces... Ultimately the original post was quite correct as if you think about it, making someone play they way they really don't want to because of a lack of choices to do so in a game that is supposed to be play your way, is in a defacto sense forcing them to play your way...
Anyway my first post tonight was a bit after 7pm local time, it is now 10:40pm and I have had dinner, need to wake up at 5am for work and have not even had time to play ED tonight due to the 'catchup reading' on this thread of which there was actually very little real additonal content towards why or why not such a mode should exist, and not even much of an in depth discussion on potential implementation ideas of mechanics and the possible exploits of such mechanics...
Disappointed... I am sure I will get over it though
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
