I have both. If you are buying just for ED go for the Rift, no problems with tracking what so ever and the comfort is definitely better than the vive. If you are buying to actually play VR games, room scale, get the vive.
Vive or Rift?
- Thread starter Mercury7
- Start date
I own Vive system as wanted room scale.
But to be honest VR games at the moment just old ideas with VR viewing added on. Though sense of scale in ED is what makes VR good but I hope more VR content will be added.
If you can wait then wait, hardware changes so often with PC's is frightening.
But to be honest VR games at the moment just old ideas with VR viewing added on. Though sense of scale in ED is what makes VR good but I hope more VR content will be added.
If you can wait then wait, hardware changes so often with PC's is frightening.
True story. Hex core CPUs with hyperthreading at a pretty reasonable clock rate on the market at lower than £400 these days? I mean come on, that's enough to support a small army of VMs...
![[VR] Mad Mike](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/27/27910.jpg?1553527108){kind=avatar}
Updated: Also had a chance to try Oculus Rift CV1.
I've tried the Oculus Rift DK2 and HTC Vive around April last year, and now made the plunge with the latest boxing day discount. My 3 cents on this:
Hardware needed
GTX 1080 is overkill for everything, provided the software is optimised
;-) In truth, you will hit ASW with 1080 in Elite. It depends heavily on the game played. Vive's resolution (which is the same as Rift's) is 2160x1200 (1080x1200 per eye) and I was able to use both DK2 and Vive in E: D with a GTX 670 and i5-3570K stock. Yes, 670, factory overclocked. SteamVR ready tests listed that as "capable".
Room scale VR
Room scale VR is cool, though you would need at least 1.5x2m space free for it, otherwise you're left with seated mode. Having meet the requirements however it is amazing to be able to dodge or hide behind cover in games like Space Pirate Trainer and Raw Data.
Both headsets are now capable of room-scale, but in Oculus' case it is labelled "experimental" and you would need to buy touch controllers separately for it (+$200) (Touch comes bundled with Oculus now). Tests show that two cams are fine with small playspaces and 180* tracking, but for 360 tracking you would need a third camera (+$79). Also, the sensors being cameras would require them to be connected to USB ports of your computer. This rules out makeshift solutions like a backpack VR ready pc (used to get "wireless" VR), but this is not an issue for most people. Just keep an eye out for your available USB bandwidth.
Vive uses two passive IR laser base stations, which require connecting to the mains socket and placement high above the playspace. When setup properly the tracking is flawless 360*.
IMHO, YMMV: tracking wise, Vive is far better engineered. Also, roomscale is a thing, even in limited space.
Optics
Both headsets have their pros and cons. If you can't stand the so-called screen door effect (compare viewing something on a multimedia projector), Rift has it less prominent. Both lenses have their own artefacts specific to their construction, Oculus has "god rays", Vive has "lens flares". In DK2 darker colours had a tendency to "smear" - once you see it you're unable to unsee it ;-) All these are dismissible (IMHO, YMMV) in the face of the immersion and depth effect. Also, Vive has a larger field of view, however it has a smaller sweet spot - which is a point where things look clear. The more you look into corners the more blurry it gets so you need to kinda "look with your head" instead of your eyes, a bit like with a led ir tracker. Oculus is said to have larger sweet spot area than Vive.
UPDATE: I had an ocassion to briefly try Oculus today, and can confirmit has better optics it renders better due to software used, IDK about the sweet spot - I didn't notice edge blurriness typical for the vive so I guess its really bigger. But the godrays are really visible. While in Vive you register them as "unwanted light coming from a strange direction", in the rift every light source "smears" during motion. It is a bit distracting but I think you can get accustomed to it.
Controllers
Oculus touch is a marvel of engineering with its capacitive surfaces and the way it forms around your hand. Having said that, the Vive wands feel comfortable and do their job just fine.Don't believe the snarky comments about split xbox controllers... they are okay, not as good as Oculus' Touch, but not too shabby either. And HTC is working on next gen controllers, the prototypes are promising. IMHO there is more to the headset than the controllers because they can be swapped anytime the manufacturer releases a new one (see: http://www.theverge.com/2016/10/12/13264950/valve-vive-vr-controllers-new-prototype) . And btw. give us tracked gloves already and be done with it ;-)
UPDATE: I tried Touch, they are lighter and fancier with their capacitive surfaces. But not as "intuitive" as marketing leads us to believe. I tried the small robot with disks tutorial, and frankly had troubles gripping things if I tried to do it "naturally". Yeah I skimmed through the tutorial ;P but if they were sooo intuitive and natural it would all just "click". I find the buttons too light for my taste. The grip buttons are better than Vive, Vive ones are bit clunkier to use - they are fine for ejecting the clip from your gun, but not for finer operations. Also, you need to be careful on how you place the Touch controller on the table, they have a tendency to roll in unexpected direction when not carefully placed I'd call it a draw here, and they are definitely not "Vive wand killers".
Ergonomics
Oculus wins this one. Vive still feels more like a prototype with its straps and rubbers. However once you adjust the headset right and learn how to exactly place it on your face so things look clear - you're golden. I don't mind the headset weight with Oculus being the lightest, Vive in the middle and PSVR being the heaviest (and surprisingly the most comfortable one). Also Oculus has these springs you use when removing the headset. Overall Rift is more ergonomic with integrated headphones and more polished design.
UPDATE: I like the integrated headphones on oculus. They are surprisingly good. The headset also is more comfortable to put in/take off due to the springs. I did find one flaw however, IPD feels inferior as it is mechanical and doesn't have any sort of display feedback like vive one does. But, assuming you're done with the demoing your headset to people, you set this once and be done with it - so it is only a minor nuisance.
Both headsets have a built in microphone, I didn't have the opportunity to test the Rift one though. Some people say that Vive mic is "punchy", whatever that means. I haven't experienced that as I played Arizona Sunshine in coop with a friend and had chatted via Vive mics during it all the time, and we played for an hour maybe?
Vive has a front-facing camera You can use the cam for finding out things in the room without taking the headset off. Handy.
There are great things in store for the Vive ergonomics currently:
Deluxe audio strap
Trackers which allow you to track any object you put it on. Note that they are not for the end-user directly but expect to see a range of accessories happening.
Wireless add-on for $250
Elite performance
No matter which headset you go with, Elite will look absolutely amazing with the true sense of scale. You can get a pale taste of this watching these videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_kLXgo4FC8 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjnIPHRMKB0 but it's nothing compared to the real thing.
People say that E: D looks better on the Rift, supposedly due to some messy coding on FDev's part and/or headset display quirks. I don't have a comparison (I might have later this week). Frontier acknowledged that this is a problem with the software: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?t=247986 but so far not heard of a fix from them.. With the arrival of "HMD Image Quality" many would say that the image is A-B comparable to Rift when you set it to 1.25.
UPDATE: Oculus wins this one hands down.IDK if its only superior optics or some software problems, but Elite is better out of the box with the Rift. The image is more clear, the text is more crisp and when I looked around cockpit there were no blurriness that Vive has when you cross the sweetspot. The only problem are the godrays in stations - every light source "smears". But lack of aliased edges and crisp UI is a very good tradeoff.
UPDATE2: if you follow the advices in this thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/274325-How-to-get-Elite-in-VR-looking-CRYSTAL-CLEAR-D you can get to the Rift's quality level but it requires immense gpu power. My 1070 is struggling with the 1.5 SS in Steam (that was before SteamVR scale change, 1.5 was something around 3.5) and 0.5 SS in game and it has judder, but the image quality matches Rift's. That would imply that this is not an optics problem but somehow a rendering problem.
UPDATE3: Mystery solved. Rift runtime is able to dynamically/programatically change the supersampling resolution, and has an auto mode depending on performance.
I've done some reading in the meantime and found out oculus software can adjust the supersampling dynamically, hence the out of the box better results with E: D. Thus proving my earlier theory that it has nothing to do with better optics, runtime(? or Elite?) is just cranking the supersampling up. (see here, render target override description). Plus it gets applied on top of SteamVR supersampling settings. Apparently it can be set to auto and runtime does this, as per this reddit thread.
Why did I buy the Vive
Room scale is amazing, the passive lighthouses have impeccable tracking. I have 3m x 2.2m playspace currently, if I switch to other couch I will have more (some games require 4x3). Touch controllers are better, but that's not something that can't be fixed with new controllers later.
Again YMMV.
UPDATE: If I were buying a headset only for Elite I would go with the Rift. If for VR in general, especially roomscale gaming - Vive, as it has better tracking and news from CES are optimistic: wireless VR, better harness with headphones and a plethora of tracked accessories coming in 2017 via the tracker thingy.
Fly safe, CMDRs.
I've tried the Oculus Rift DK2 and HTC Vive around April last year, and now made the plunge with the latest boxing day discount. My 3 cents on this:
Hardware needed
GTX 1080 is overkill for everything, provided the software is optimised
;-) In truth, you will hit ASW with 1080 in Elite. It depends heavily on the game played. Vive's resolution (which is the same as Rift's) is 2160x1200 (1080x1200 per eye) and I was able to use both DK2 and Vive in E: D with a GTX 670 and i5-3570K stock. Yes, 670, factory overclocked. SteamVR ready tests listed that as "capable".Room scale VR
Room scale VR is cool, though you would need at least 1.5x2m space free for it, otherwise you're left with seated mode. Having meet the requirements however it is amazing to be able to dodge or hide behind cover in games like Space Pirate Trainer and Raw Data.
Both headsets are now capable of room-scale
Vive uses two passive IR laser base stations, which require connecting to the mains socket and placement high above the playspace. When setup properly the tracking is flawless 360*.
IMHO, YMMV: tracking wise, Vive is far better engineered. Also, roomscale is a thing, even in limited space.
Optics
Both headsets have their pros and cons. If you can't stand the so-called screen door effect (compare viewing something on a multimedia projector), Rift has it less prominent. Both lenses have their own artefacts specific to their construction, Oculus has "god rays", Vive has "lens flares". In DK2 darker colours had a tendency to "smear" - once you see it you're unable to unsee it ;-) All these are dismissible (IMHO, YMMV) in the face of the immersion and depth effect. Also, Vive has a larger field of view, however it has a smaller sweet spot - which is a point where things look clear. The more you look into corners the more blurry it gets so you need to kinda "look with your head" instead of your eyes, a bit like with a led ir tracker. Oculus is said to have larger sweet spot area than Vive.
UPDATE: I had an ocassion to briefly try Oculus today, and can confirm
Controllers
Oculus touch is a marvel of engineering with its capacitive surfaces and the way it forms around your hand. Having said that, the Vive wands feel comfortable and do their job just fine.
UPDATE: I tried Touch, they are lighter and fancier with their capacitive surfaces. But not as "intuitive" as marketing leads us to believe. I tried the small robot with disks tutorial, and frankly had troubles gripping things if I tried to do it "naturally". Yeah I skimmed through the tutorial ;P but if they were sooo intuitive and natural it would all just "click". I find the buttons too light for my taste. The grip buttons are better than Vive, Vive ones are bit clunkier to use - they are fine for ejecting the clip from your gun, but not for finer operations. Also, you need to be careful on how you place the Touch controller on the table, they have a tendency to roll in unexpected direction when not carefully placed
I'd call it a draw here, and they are definitely not "Vive wand killers".Ergonomics
Oculus wins this one. Vive still feels more like a prototype with its straps and rubbers. However once you adjust the headset right and learn how to exactly place it on your face so things look clear - you're golden. I don't mind the headset weight with Oculus being the lightest, Vive in the middle and PSVR being the heaviest (and surprisingly the most comfortable one). Also Oculus has these springs you use when removing the headset. Overall Rift is more ergonomic with integrated headphones and more polished design.
UPDATE: I like the integrated headphones on oculus. They are surprisingly good. The headset also is more comfortable to put in/take off due to the springs. I did find one flaw however, IPD feels inferior as it is mechanical and doesn't have any sort of display feedback like vive one does. But, assuming you're done with the demoing your headset to people, you set this once and be done with it - so it is only a minor nuisance.
Both headsets have a built in microphone, I didn't have the opportunity to test the Rift one though. Some people say that Vive mic is "punchy", whatever that means. I haven't experienced that as I played Arizona Sunshine in coop with a friend and had chatted via Vive mics during it all the time, and we played for an hour maybe?
Vive has a front-facing camera You can use the cam for finding out things in the room without taking the headset off. Handy.
There are great things in store for the Vive ergonomics currently:
Deluxe audio strap
Trackers which allow you to track any object you put it on. Note that they are not for the end-user directly but expect to see a range of accessories happening.
Wireless add-on for $250
Elite performance
No matter which headset you go with, Elite will look absolutely amazing with the true sense of scale. You can get a pale taste of this watching these videos: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6_kLXgo4FC8 and https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XjnIPHRMKB0 but it's nothing compared to the real thing.
People say that E: D looks better on the Rift
UPDATE: Oculus wins this one hands down.
UPDATE2: if you follow the advices in this thread: https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/274325-How-to-get-Elite-in-VR-looking-CRYSTAL-CLEAR-D you can get to the Rift's quality level but it requires immense gpu power. My 1070 is struggling with the 1.5 SS in Steam (that was before SteamVR scale change, 1.5 was something around 3.5) and 0.5 SS in game and it has judder, but the image quality matches Rift's. That would imply that this is not an optics problem but somehow a rendering problem.
UPDATE3: Mystery solved. Rift runtime is able to dynamically/programatically change the supersampling resolution, and has an auto mode depending on performance.
I've done some reading in the meantime and found out oculus software can adjust the supersampling dynamically, hence the out of the box better results with E: D. Thus proving my earlier theory that it has nothing to do with better optics, runtime(? or Elite?) is just cranking the supersampling up. (see here, render target override description). Plus it gets applied on top of SteamVR supersampling settings. Apparently it can be set to auto and runtime does this, as per this reddit thread.
Why did I buy the Vive
Room scale is amazing, the passive lighthouses have impeccable tracking. I have 3m x 2.2m playspace currently, if I switch to other couch I will have more (some games require 4x3). Touch controllers are better, but that's not something that can't be fixed with new controllers later.
Again YMMV.
UPDATE: If I were buying a headset only for Elite I would go with the Rift. If for VR in general, especially roomscale gaming - Vive, as it has better tracking and news from CES are optimistic: wireless VR, better harness with headphones and a plethora of tracked accessories coming in 2017 via the tracker thingy.
Fly safe, CMDRs.
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I think you must be talking about my comment, although I was referring to the Oculus Touch controllers. I wasn't being snarky. I guess it depends on your opinion of the XBOne gamepads. I thought most people held them in high regard. I was saying that they were of a similar build quality and fitted in the hand just as well.
I meant the head banging to make it work with ED as well as the Rift does by nature. Shoulda made that clearer.
The Rift not actually having room scaling would kinda shoot someone down for bashing the Vive's room scaling anyway
That makes more sense
haha. I was thinking .. how could anyone slam the Vive so hard. It's sure not perfect but it's still a marvel!I'd be interested to see the difference between it and the Rift with ED only. I can't imagine them to be that different, but you never know.
Man the language barrier did hit me hard on this one, twice. I thought you're referring to the wands and I love XBOne controller - I consider it a must-have for PC gaming in general
And like said I will repeat that Touch is a marvel of engineering... for now Indeed there are some very exciting news from CES:
https://blog.vive.com/us/2017/01/04/vive-ces-2017/
https://unlocked.newegg.com/article...upgrade-tracker-peripherals-and-more-ces-2017
I also think we can expect "VR wars" like good times of "ATI vs NVidia" gpu wars (yes, ATI, not AMD
). Usually consumers benefit from them, time will tell
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Updated my post after trying the Oculus + Touch.
Well OP it boils down too.. (updated for Feb 2017)
RIFT the GOOD: better screen sharpness/SDE (at the cost of FOV), comfort(unless you have a really large head), lightness, HMD design (subjective), built in audio, better hand controllers (subjective),better mic and slightly better seated software support ATW/ASW etc ATM.
Rift the BAD: Less FOV esp vertical,Some people "see" the stereo overlap,Less bright LCD's (read they my have been turned up recently in an update),Colour Banding and black smear (tweaking settings can help),smaller IPD range with no on screen info, harsher god rays, Light leakage around nose area, Confirmed inferior tracking @room scale with its IR camera's (hopefully updates will help with the current bugs but the cameras will always have less FOV and range plus you have to buy an extra one and possibly a USB card), Shorter flimsy looking cable not suited to room scale, a locked down HMD & store and more of the same kind of thing if you had a DK2 like me (if you dont buy touch).
VIVE the GOOD: More FOV (especially with mod below) USB/Audio connectivity in HMD,Built in Camera,Brighter screen's better colours,better suited to those with bigger heads,mod friendly, set and forget sub mm tracking of hmd/controllers, game changing full room scale VR see Onward https://youtu.be/7ZEY_LwzS4M?t=196, built-in camera, Revive hack (play most of the rift's "exclusive" content ATM), plus the weight of steam behind it and it will get you fit! [haha]
VIVE the BAD: Not as sharp (slightly less pixel density but more FOV), Fresnel rings visible in bright scenes, no built in audio but new headstrap coming soon, Clunkier controllers (again subjective I prefer the tool approach also new controllers and tracking pucks coming soon) less comfortable, heavier, front heavy (better with the sleep mask mod or an aftermarket 6mm facial pad), god rays(less than the rifts by all accounts), heavy cables, "poppy" mic, blurrier lenses at edges again much better with sleep mask mod, sketchy software support but now has ATW which really helps with ELITE. plus 3 hours of Onward is knackering
Conclusion... both HMD's have their strong/weak points so pick your poison... or get both and make your own mind up!
PS.. any Vive owners who don't wear glasses try this to increase your FOV and drastically reduce edge blur.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4gezog/8_sleep_mask_mod_worked_better_than_expected_and/
I would estimate its added 10-20 degrees to mine, IMO its feels a lot like the DK1's FOV now and feels less weighty at the front too.
Also for the that integrated headphone feel.. Thread the head phones through the top of the headset like this https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4eemqq/an_even_better_earbud_wire_routing/ pretty much as good as integrated you forget about them tbh i put mine through the triangle near the front and through the side straps and they dangle just right.
RIFT the GOOD: better screen sharpness/SDE (at the cost of FOV), comfort(unless you have a really large head), lightness, HMD design (subjective), built in audio, better hand controllers (subjective),better mic and slightly better seated software support ATW/ASW etc ATM.
Rift the BAD: Less FOV esp vertical,Some people "see" the stereo overlap,Less bright LCD's (read they my have been turned up recently in an update),Colour Banding and black smear (tweaking settings can help),smaller IPD range with no on screen info, harsher god rays, Light leakage around nose area, Confirmed inferior tracking @room scale with its IR camera's (hopefully updates will help with the current bugs but the cameras will always have less FOV and range plus you have to buy an extra one and possibly a USB card), Shorter flimsy looking cable not suited to room scale, a locked down HMD & store and more of the same kind of thing if you had a DK2 like me (if you dont buy touch).
VIVE the GOOD: More FOV (especially with mod below) USB/Audio connectivity in HMD,Built in Camera,Brighter screen's better colours,better suited to those with bigger heads,mod friendly, set and forget sub mm tracking of hmd/controllers, game changing full room scale VR see Onward https://youtu.be/7ZEY_LwzS4M?t=196, built-in camera, Revive hack (play most of the rift's "exclusive" content ATM), plus the weight of steam behind it and it will get you fit! [haha]
VIVE the BAD: Not as sharp (slightly less pixel density but more FOV), Fresnel rings visible in bright scenes, no built in audio but new headstrap coming soon, Clunkier controllers (again subjective I prefer the tool approach also new controllers and tracking pucks coming soon) less comfortable, heavier, front heavy (better with the sleep mask mod or an aftermarket 6mm facial pad), god rays(less than the rifts by all accounts), heavy cables, "poppy" mic, blurrier lenses at edges again much better with sleep mask mod, sketchy software support but now has ATW which really helps with ELITE. plus 3 hours of Onward is knackering
Conclusion... both HMD's have their strong/weak points so pick your poison... or get both and make your own mind up!
PS.. any Vive owners who don't wear glasses try this to increase your FOV and drastically reduce edge blur.
https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4gezog/8_sleep_mask_mod_worked_better_than_expected_and/
I would estimate its added 10-20 degrees to mine, IMO its feels a lot like the DK1's FOV now and feels less weighty at the front too.
Also for the that integrated headphone feel.. Thread the head phones through the top of the headset like this https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4eemqq/an_even_better_earbud_wire_routing/ pretty much as good as integrated you forget about them tbh i put mine through the triangle near the front and through the side straps and they dangle just right.
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You seem well versed in both. I have plans for roomscale but that is honestly an afterthought. ED is my primary goal here. I am probably going to pick up my vive tomorrow unless you tell me something that will change my mind.
What i would really like to know from you is.....which, in your opinion, is the visually better experience? Taking into account everything....including sharpness, field of view, brightness, god rays, screen door effect etc...... I tend to find visual "problems" very distracting. Like smear from an lcd or a bad framerate. I just want to be happy with my purchase. Like i said....i have tried both but not with ED.
Im willing to change the face pad on the vive if needed. I just want the best possible ED ecperience. Like i said...roomscale is definitely a plus....but its more of an afterthought. ED is primary
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These things are highly subjective. No one will tell you if you like it or not, alas. If you're torn, arrange a demo with your rig in a brick and mortar shop. After all, you're paying almost a thousand euros for that toy, they should kiss your feet for wanting to pick one ;-) If it works for expensive TVs I can't see why it shouldn't work with VR headsets.
Back on topic: Like I said I've tried E
on both, and while Rift was superior out of the box, after fiddling with OpenVR settings etc. (as described in my post) it was as good on my Vive (i5-3570k + GTX 1070). And for example I found the smearing/godrays in the Rift very distracting. Much more distracting than "lens flares" from the same light source from the Vive. I've heard that people also fiddle with colour settings and brightness to reduce that banding/smearing on Rift. Your mileage may vary. I'd still advise the Vive as in my opinion it's more futureproof (unless a third, disruptive headset emerges).- - - Updated - - -
PS: After my experience with HTC Support (defective HMD), I'd strongly advise buying from a physical shop. It will give you much more options in case things break. And that's regardless of brand choice, because both companies seem to struggle with support for this expensive technology.
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Nice fairly well balanced post, I know you went for the vive, and I went for the rift with no regrets and would do again, but there are actually no losers either way Imo. the rift does have its quirks which annoy me no end that are a non issue on the vive.
1 thing tho, your post makes it sound like the rift doesn't have a built in mic. actually it does and I *think* it has the edge over the vive one. shame it does not have the camera however, but, it does have a more sophisticated guardian system. (software of course so could change at any time)
my hope is tracking problems is a 1st generation issue only.... fingers crossed in the future inside out tracking will be a proper thing with no need for sensors
Didn't even know it has a mic, frankly I didn't see that it would sound that way. Will update the ergonomics part.
PS: "sound"... hehe fitting
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ROTFL:
PS: Cable threadink link no worky. But you can always use this tutorial:
[video=youtube;LrFZcvggGPI]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LrFZcvggGPI[/video]
- - - Updated - - -
There are only rumours. I was expecting vive 2.0 but around christmas it became apparent that HTC doesn't want to do that yet, and is instead focusing on the ecosystem.
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Yea i know the gun reload was a little janky [haha] that was an early build of onward reloading is far easier now i think
PS. Thanks link fixed