You miss the point its an analogue not your own version, Britain didn`t get the territory back and the Irish territory is a day to day reality and obivious ongoing source of tension.
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General / Off-Topic The persecutions of the British
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You miss the point its an analogue not your own version, Britain didn`t get the territory back and the Irish territory is a day to day reality and obivious ongoing source of tension.
No you've missed my point. You want me to say that the British would react in exactly the same way not integrating gripping onto their bigotry and repeating a cycle of violence for hundreds of years, I've provided you with historical examples of where this didn't happen. The difference isn't geographical it's inside peoples heads. You've either been systematically indoctrinated to hate or you haven't. The issue's you still have problems with date from the same period as the English civil war, and the Brits haven't cared about that for hundreds of years either.
Advantages? You really think they're actually advantages? You miss my point: it's messed up from top to bottom. Surely you have some issue with that.
On your point - What's of more interest to me is how people have stood by and allowed these cuts to happen in a supposedly civilised society with a Welfare State.
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White people in the US are scared of becoming a minority. Why is that? Could it be because minorities have been mistreated when they held the power?
There seems to be some sentiments here about excusing the actions of the British Empire. Why should anybody do that? Empires are evil, vicious creations. The sins of the past have to be accepted and apologised for so we can move on. Where it can be done, injustices need to be addressed.
Germany is remarkable in having actually addressed the past. Other imperial powers, like the UK, Russia and Japan have a lot of soul searching and laundry washing yet to do.
You are passing judgement on the conflict in Ireland, therefore I am asking you to take part in a thought experiment in relation to an analogue of the Irish situation which is as I previously outlined and not one of your own making. You seem mentally to be unable to make that leap for some reason. Its very simple.
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What makes you think the second paragraph of what you are saying hasn't been happening? There are no apologists here. People want to move on after years of pain. That's not excusing anything. Recognising a wider historical context isn't excusing. Peace is impossible without it.
I don't see how increasing/manufacturing a British guilt complex is going to help anyone. Can we stay on topic please.
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This is because the 'majority' are not effected at this time by the cuts. Well I say that, but the percentage that is being effected, is growing with each new cut.
Martin Niemoller sums it up best I think, in his 'First they came for the socialists...'
I will read that, cheers.
I think it's interesting how people are being gradually conditioned to accept the cuts as a necessity.
There's a lot of conditioning going on. At what point do people come together and say 'enough'? Well they can't if they don't see a wider problem.
Just read it. Brilliant; spot on.
I think it's interesting how people are being gradually conditioned to accept the cuts as a necessity.
There's a lot of conditioning going on. At what point do people come together and say 'enough'? Well they can't if they don't see a wider problem.
Just read it. Brilliant; spot on.
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Insanephoton nailed it precisely..
I have been through the system on and off over the last 20years and it does get stressful, to the point of some unemplyed people ( including myself) being diagnosed with stress and depression , prescribed antidepressents and declared officially as Unfit for Work.
And yes 30 hours a week Actively seeking work is required.. if your internet searches arent sufficient to satisfy whoever you see on the day you sign on sanctions are guaranteed.
Try living with NO MONEY for 6weeks..because I filled in a form incorrectly even though I offered there and then to remedy it..
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The conflict is over so in a direct current comparison I'd be one of the people celebrating the last 20 years of peace and hoping that this time the peace will hold (which isn't much of a switch as it's my current view).
Ok, so you would accept that Irish territory and its continued existence on 20% of the the Island of Britain and accept it was for them to remain part of Ireland or choose to reunite with Britain at a future date, accepting Britain had no say in its existence.
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It doesn't matter how often you try this, I will never agree with a viewpoint that's based on religious hatred. You need to set your watch forward about four hundred years.
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Religion is not being spoken about. If you accept the agreement as you stated in relation to that Irish territory then you obviously accept my previous post as that would be an analogue of the agreement..
If religion isn't an issue, then there's no conflict. Religion was (and is) the dividing line it was how people identified each other as friend or enemy.
I find it hard how you seem to be mentally corralled by religion, it has nothing to do with it. This is a territorial question and wars have been waged over territory since day dot. I accepted the Good Friday Agreement and voted for it, I am asking you in the simple analogue that I have outlined would you accept and vote for the analogue Good Friday Agreement guaranteeing the continued existence of the Irish territory in question encompassing we`ll say 20% of what was previously England. Their future would be in their own hands and England/Britain would have no say in the matter.
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No, there would have been conflict regardless, as its an issue from settlement. Turf war.
Religion looks like the main issue, but it's really not always that way. The mainissue is a power struggle between different groups, and groups who see each other as culturally different - religion being a part of it of course. Religion is a fairly accurate and easy way of seeing where people's religions lie, and seeing the boundaries of a power struggle. However, Protestants can be Nationalist, some Roman Catholics Unionist (or at least quietly pro-Union). Religion was and is a polarising force, don't get me wrong. But it's always been about power. Usually over land.
Chieftains and earls used to fight before and after the plantations: religion didn't play much of a role in that.
Religion looks like the main issue, but it's really not always that way. The mainissue is a power struggle between different groups, and groups who see each other as culturally different - religion being a part of it of course. Religion is a fairly accurate and easy way of seeing where people's religions lie, and seeing the boundaries of a power struggle. However, Protestants can be Nationalist, some Roman Catholics Unionist (or at least quietly pro-Union). Religion was and is a polarising force, don't get me wrong. But it's always been about power. Usually over land.
Chieftains and earls used to fight before and after the plantations: religion didn't play much of a role in that.
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Nope I'm an atheist, I regard all religions with an equal amount of alarm no matter what sub-sect it is. In a direct parallel, hundreds of years of murderous conflict perpetuated by groups split along religious lines, and now after all of that twenty years of peace. As an atheist who'd have been stuck in the middle hated by both sides, I'd readily accept peace and would have been actively campaigning for it.
Just like I'd willingly accept a united Ireland, if that had been required to stop the killing.
Minonian
Banned
And this just became far more worst after the exit.
Can I take from that, that you would have accepted and voted for the analogue GF Aggrement guaranteeing the Irish territory's existence on formerly English/British territory on its own terms, for as long as it wished.
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I've already answered that at least three times, I've made my position clear. Instead of repeatedly asking minor variations of the same question hoping in vain for the opportunity of some nebulous "gotcha" moment why don't you just try to explain whatever point it is you are trying to drive at.