Vindicator Jones Discusses Fundamental Game Improvements

Brett C

Frontier
Notice he got banned for posting that.. And I'll likely get banned for pointing out what he got banned for. You see how this works?

He was temporarily suspended for the video containing copious amounts of swearing.

As per the forum rules.
Do not evade the swear / profanity filter.
This is a family friendly forum; we would appreciate against the usage of purposeful swear filter evasion or masked swearing.

If his video didn't have swearing like a sailor... it'd be perfectly fine for these forums.
 
Because that is what griefers like to spout.. if you dont want to play by our rules in open, go to solo or private groups.

Here you go again with using pejorative terms.. 'what griefers like to spout' - I presume you are indirectly calling me a 'griefer'.


Telling commanders that they have to accept being your content in open, and then blowing them up for nothing is having a monopoly..

Utter garbage.. I've never told anyone they need to be my content. I am however playing a multiplayer game and so we are all part of the game.

It boils down to this...

Here we go again, the world according you VJ..

Crime and Punishment is there to give a challenge to those who like to just seal club for no reason. If you have a problem with being challenged for behaving in such a manor suggests a lot about your playstyle.

I'm quite happy to see a more meaningful c&p system, and you have absolutely no idea how I play the game.. Again, more personal vitriol..

You say to traders to git good and harden up, well maybe its about time people who seal club need to harden up and accept the consequences of their actions with a functioning crime and punishment system.

For the record I think its fair to say that a lot of people crying a river over the game would do well to look to improve and learn how to play. Lots of guides out there now, Rinzlers recent one offered a good demonstration..

That said, I don't condone pwning noobs in Eravate. And I don't do it.

But hey, 400 billion star systems, 70k in the bubble and apparently we can't move for these griefers... Utter tosh.
 
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Evidence for connecting a video post that is still on the forum with a forum ban?

ZERO.

Hyperbole? Yes in spades.

Cosmos "of course" has all the inside info to be able to make that statement.

Original thread has disappeared. And he's banned.

What do you think, applying Occam's razor... :rolleyes:
 
Part II as promised..

'right now its the kiddies with the biggest guns..' - worth point out again that how is this different to calling people carebears? Oh yeah, what you mean is that you are free to use pejorative terms but anyone who has a different view point is not. Right..

'Open should be a social zone...' well it is, but you appear to want to control what people can do, according to your own ideology.. Sounds like fascism to me.

'everyone should have the choice of engaging in the favourite activity whilst minimising their exposure'... They ALREADY DO.. solo and PG.. God give me strength.

'there has to be a balance that benefits all players' - This reminds me of listening to a Feminist.. Are you sure you want equality? Because if you PvE'rs really want that you are going to have to forgo your present priviledge.

'non consentual'... Call me old skool but when I use the word consent, and its rare, its usually to defend myself against false accusations where 'consent' was in question, usually when I am falsely accussed of (never actually happened btw). You really think this sort of language is applicable to the game? Hmm..

'Its a tough nut to crack' - hahaha, depends on the nut we are speaking about but nice word bro.. This whole quagmire is a bit nutty imo.

I heard the 'no reason' again.. okay, I need another break..

Sorry, but the way you've tried making points undermines yourself IMHO.

ie: Rather than trying to address points with actual reasoning, you've simply levelled sarcasm and emotion. That's not a good (logical) approach.


I want more PvP in the game... But at the same time, what currently predominantly passes for PvP in the game is counter productive and almost an embarrassment to ED IMHO. Because the game offers next to no PvP gameplay/content, CMDRs interested in it literally are having to scrape the bottom of the barrel to partake in it, which all too often means just interdicting and attacking anyone/everyone they can. This is mostly just a sad reflection on the state of the gameplay in ED in truth. You really can't sign up within the game with fellow CMDRs to undertake anything more interesting/productive/meaningful, knowing that you'll be fighting other CMDRs doing it? After two years the game still can't facilitate that?

In short, the game needs to offer more constructive/orchestrated (generally legal) PvP, and also penalise the mindless/pointless destruction. This no doubt would upset some CMDRs, but I suspect these would be the minority who just get enjoyment out of unchallenging seal clubbing and the grief they assume it causes other CMDRs.

ps: By PvP I of course mean attacking other players, quite possibly destroying them,
 
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What was the last post he made?

LOL, your gonna have to do a lot better than that to even coming close to hitting a nerve.. The day I care what someone like you has to say is the day I stop playing the game.. I love all the hate, it just spurs me to keep making more content!

wow dude.. 'someone like me'? Please elaborate.. Really interested to hear what you think, don't worry I have a thick skin, tell me what you really think of me.

He was temporarily suspended for the video containing copious amounts of swearing.

As per the forum rules.


If his video didn't have swearing like a sailor... it'd be perfectly fine for these forums.

Yeah I get it, I'm sadly all too familiar with your moderation policies.. lol
 
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Here you go again with using pejorative terms.. 'what griefers like to spout' - I presume you are indirectly calling me a 'griefer'.




Utter garbage.. I've never told anyone they need to be my content. I am however playing a multiplayer game and so we are all part of the game.



Here we go again, the world according you VJ..



I'm quite happy to see a more meaningful c&p system, and you have absolutely no idea how I play the game.. Again, more personal vitriol..



For the record I think its fair to say that a lot of people crying a river over the game would do well to look to improve and learn how to play. Lots of guides out there now, Rinzlers recent one offered a good demonstration..

That said, I don't condone pwning noobs in Eravate. And I don't do it.

But hey, 400 billion star systems, 70k in the bubble and apparently we can't move for these griefers... Utter tosh.


You will see that I have never once called you directly a griefer, I am saying that griefers usually say the same thing, cause they do.. As the rest, if your offended with how I word things, well, bad luck really, dont watch my videos. lol

All I have been saying is that there needs to be a better crime and punishment system, and now it seems you agree with me, thats great! glad your finally on board! :)
 
He was temporarily suspended for the video containing copious amounts of swearing.

As per the forum rules.


If his video didn't have swearing like a sailor... it'd be perfectly fine for these forums.

Indeed, however forum users who don't like the argument that is being presented tend to hit the report button for agenda-driven reasons, rather than they were offended by a few swears.

I understand that you have to enforce the forum-rules in a consistent manner, but it just feels this was targeted (by other forum users) because of who the OP represents and the subject matter discussed.
 
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You will see that I have never once called you directly a griefer, I am saying that griefers usually say the same thing, cause they do.. As the rest, if your offended with how I word things, well, bad luck really, dont watch my videos. lol

Its precisely this sort of passive aggressive commentary that creates conflict. I'm not offended for the record.. But don't watch your videos?.. I saw what you did there.. You are in fact telling me not to comment on your public commentary over the game when it affects the game I am playing.

You dont get to tell me what I can and cannot discuss, period.

All I have been saying is that there needs to be a better crime and punishment system, and now it seems you agree with me, thats great! glad your finally on board! :)

And you have the cheek to label players as 'kiddies'.. You could have actually made all the merit worthy points over the game without the veiled insults to everyone else. [rolleyes]

Scratch a lie, reveal the truth.. It didn't take long nor much effort.
 
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He was temporarily suspended for the video containing copious amounts of swearing.

As per the forum rules.


If his video didn't have swearing like a sailor... it'd be perfectly fine for these forums.

A family friendly forum that deals with drugs and murder. Never understood that duality, but there you go :)

Edit: reminds me of watching Repoman on BBC2 some years ago. They bleeped out that well known word regarding fortification and then in the next scene showed a guy shooting up.
 
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Indeed, however forum users who don't like the argument that is being presented tend to hit the report button for agenda-driven reasons, rather than they were offended by a few swears.

I understand that you have to enforce the forum-rules in a consistent manner, but it just feels this was targeted (by other forum users) because of who the OP represents and the subject matter discussed.

Agreed, seems like the principle of leverage was applied here.

@VJ
So wanna discuss your karma suggestion?
Read up my comments and maybe my counterproposition, wanna hear
what ya think.
 
To warrant that this works the players need to be tied and knit into the BGS
without that link, there is no effective policing of playermurder.
NPCs already have the tools, and if FD cook the police up more
there will be no space for beginner pirates and people who do NOT use
the defense meta bull-poo.

A sensible police force scales their response based on the danger of the attacker and the seriousness of the crime.

A beginner pirate that manages to avoid killing should have time to scoop the cargo. If he kills, he gets less time but can still get out with less loot. He would still have to move to a different system to avoid flak, if the attack wasn't in an anarchy or low sec system.

The point is that for a beginner pirate, it basically works this way already. For a wing of wanted über shielded Corvettes, no appropriate response exists.
 
Its precisely this sort of passive aggressive commentary that creates conflict. I'm not offended for the record.. But don't watch your videos?.. I saw what you did there.. You are in fact telling me not to comment on your public commentary over the game when it affects the game I am playing.

You dont get to tell me what I can and cannot discuss, period.

Whooa looks like I hit a nerve there. I fail to see how calmly discussing a subject is making you so angry. Relax, everyone is allowed to have different opinions. Its all good.


And you have the cheek to label players as 'kiddies'.. You could have actually made all the merit worthy points over the game without the veiled insults to everyone else. [rolleyes]

Well it is the kiddies with the big guns!! It's just a toungue in cheek phrase. I cant help that your offended by that so much. I dunno, I guess here in Australia we are a bit more laid back and take comments like that with a grain of salt. You know what, I will be the bigger man and say I'm sorry for saying that. I didnt realize it would be such a trigger word for some people. Are we cool now?
 
A sensible police force scales their response based on the danger of the attacker and the seriousness of the crime.

A beginner pirate that manages to avoid killing should have time to scoop the cargo. If he kills, he gets less time but can still get out with less loot. He would still have to move to a different system to avoid flak, if the attack wasn't in an anarchy or low sec system.

The point is that for a beginner pirate, it basically works this way already. For a wing of wanted über shielded Corvettes, no appropriate response exists.

The system already does that in a limited fashion:
Continued bounty increase and more infractions in a system lead to faster responses
and to the police sending in directly a wing of 3 instead of 1 lone viper MKIII (tested low sec).

With FD now revoking the needed shield changes there is even less
of a police response existant, due to crazy shields.

But you see, this is where i tie in my second request:
Remove the defense modules.
Without them a large ship is not safe from a wing of 3 vipers either,
he will either rout, or take damage.

If FD would make a mechanic regarding the "outfitting" and "defense strength"
of your ship, you should prepare for salt incoming on the forums, as that c&p change swings both ways,
and inexperienced players will face an according police response, too.
I am talking PvE BH in this case who stray-shots a clean ship.
You see where tweaking that screw leads?
 
Whooa looks like I hit a nerve there. I fail to see how calmly discussing a subject is making you so angry. Relax, everyone is allowed to have different opinions. Its all good.




Well it is the kiddies with the big guns!! It's just a toungue in cheek phrase. I cant help that your offended by that so much. I dunno, I guess here in Australia we are a bit more laid back and take comments like that with a grain of salt. You know what, I will be the bigger man and say I'm sorry for saying that. I didnt realize it would be such a trigger word for some people. Are we cool now?

Classy.. Send me a PM, I'm sure we can arrange a convo over teamspeak. Unlike most around here I am rather happy to let rip and speak my mind, aussie style ;)
 
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Agreed, seems like the principle of leverage was applied here.

@VJ
So wanna discuss your karma suggestion?
Read up my comments and maybe my counterproposition, wanna hear
what ya think.

Well, I know what you mean about the ramming issue, but really frontier need to raise the speed limit to about 140-150m/s and in the mean time commanders need to learn to enter the docking area at under 100m/s to avoid these problems. They should be doing this anyway considering how ramming is often an issue at stations.

I think tying the crime and punishment system into the BGS is an important aspect, especially with powerplay. I dont really have any answers with this one, but I am sure it could be worked out fairly with some common sense. The primary reason for Crime and punishment, in my opinion, is to make commanders who want to roleplay as terrorists to feel uncomfortable in higher security systems, and to deny them landing rights in those systems. But it dosent necessarily mean anyone with low karma should be denied entry, just those with extremely low karma.

It would have to be carefully balanced and I think a lot of testing would need to be done. Maybe my ideas wont work, I freely admit it, but it dosent negate the fact that we need a better system.
 
The system already does that in a limited fashion:
Continued bounty increase and more infractions in a system lead to faster responses
and to the police sending in directly a wing of 3 instead of 1 lone viper MKIII (tested low sec).

With FD now revoking the needed shield changes there is even less
of a police response existant, due to crazy shields.

But you see, this is where i tie in my second request:
Remove the defense modules.
Without them a large ship is not safe from a wing of 3 vipers either,
he will either rout, or take damage.

If FD would make a mechanic regarding the "outfitting" and "defense strength"
of your ship, you should prepare for salt incoming on the forums, as that c&p change swings both ways,
and inexperienced players will face an according police response, too.
I am talking PvE BH in this case who stray-shots a clean ship.
You see where tweaking that screw leads?

I couldn't agree more on the defensive modules. They should go. All of them (SCB, HRP, Shield Boosters and module reinforcements).

Unfortunately neither FD nor the majority of players agrees with this. Pity really. It would have made the game better. :D
 
Well, I know what you mean about the ramming issue, but really frontier need to raise the speed limit to about 140-150m/s and in the mean time commanders need to learn to enter the docking area at under 100m/s to avoid these problems. They should be doing this anyway considering how ramming is often an issue at stations.

I think tying the crime and punishment system into the BGS is an important aspect, especially with powerplay. I dont really have any answers with this one, but I am sure it could be worked out fairly with some common sense. The primary reason for Crime and punishment, in my opinion, is to make commanders who want to roleplay as terrorists to feel uncomfortable in higher security systems, and to deny them landing rights in those systems. But it dosent necessarily mean anyone with low karma should be denied entry, just those with extremely low karma.

It would have to be carefully balanced and I think a lot of testing would need to be done. Maybe my ideas wont work, I freely admit it, but it dosent negate the fact that we need a better system.

I agree with you,
it would require testing.

Here is some fodder for thought,
basically a suggestion from lateralus regarding karma.
Personally i think that the only way to get a real persistent way
of tracking a CMDR's deeds is the BGS and Rep that is currently applied to player vs npc
murder.
That way it is controllable.
Karma is an outside of the game system.
I'd welcome the Toddler's ... sry. Pilot's Federation to buck up
and do something about player murder spree.
But they are more laid back than our world's neutral countries.
https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteDangerous/comments/5a6abv/serious_elite_dangerous_crime_punishment_feedback/d9gzsj9/

I couldn't agree more on the defensive modules. They should go. All of them (SCB, HRP, Shield Boosters and module reinforcements).

Unfortunately neither FD nor the majority of players agrees with this. Pity really. It would have made the game better. :D

I asked FD to make a beta without those modules
so we can test the disparity between ships and loadouts in a test environment.
We need to do that, we need to show people how those modules
change the perspective of the player towards difficulty,
and finally find out if latest feature additions (SLF)
are a boon to keep large ships viable.

You can imagine the answers to that request playerside i got. :(
 
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