Alien archeology and other mysteries: Thread 9 - The Canonn

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Ushgarak

U
Jmanis said:
Actually, there's an abundance of information about instancing and scanning. Long story short, no, I don't think it's working properly in Open/PG, and it is actually working in solo correctly, but in Open/PG the effects of instancing and event registration cause what should be happening to solve the puzzle to essentially "break".

Look at what we do know. You can stack multiple (for arguments sake, 20) "scanning" missions to the one location (try out the PRE surface base in Pleiades to see this in action), scan one of the multiple data beacons that will spawn there (twenty of them, one for each mission you take), and it'll register completion for *all* twenty missions, and you get a success message for each mission. The one you scan disables, meanwhile the other 19 are still active. Scan another one, you get another 20 completion messages for each mission again.

Now lets look at what's being observed. Things like:
- People in wings who aren't doing anything get a data entry when a wingmate successfully finds a scan combination (Scanning event registers for all wingmates)
- Everyone sees an active beacon. One person scans it, it deactivates... meanwhile other players still see the beacon as active (Scanning the beacon only disables it for one person)

Now assume that you've got 8 obelisks, 4 active, 4 inactive. To get the other 4 to activate (like what gets observed in open with different obelisks to those mapped after people randomly scan/approach things).

So lets say you have to scan Beacon 1 with Item 1 in your hold, Beacon 2 with item 2, 3 with 3 and 4 with 4. If you get any one of these wrong, you've broken your chance to activate others. In solo, that's what, a possible 256 permutations if ordering mattered? That's a significant space to try and solve to get 1,1 - 2,2 - 3,3 - 4,4

But get four wingmen, one with item 1, one with item 2, one with item 3, and 1 with item four. Each of you scan all four obelisks and bam, because of the way the event registration seems to occur under the hood based on previous observations, you've brute-forced the entire problem space (Because Obelisk 1 registers as having been scanned with item 1, 2, 3 and 4 thanks to the event registering for all wingmates when you scan, same with 2, 3 and 4. In all that, 1 got scanned with 1, 2 with 2, 3 with 3 etc etc).

Now that example only used 4 obelisks and 4 items. The initial state of the puzzle is, just considering obelisks and items, 21 (or 26) permutations of items in the hold and 15 active obelisks. That's 6.8122319e+19 possible combinations if order of events matters. Far less if order doesn't, but still a significant amount.

Personally, that's what I think is going on under the hood. There's certain events you need to trigger with certain things in certain ways, but because those conditions can "stack" in open or groups, you start to see things unlocking far easier.
Click to expand...

Yeah, my instinct is that it is multiplay breaking the quest by giving unintended progress, not solo failing by shutting players out. But we'll see.
 

mrPaperRoman

mrPaperRoman
Can someone check system map at Synuefe XR-H d11-102? I have a missing planet #3 and it's landable moon. Take a look below. I'm 100% sure there was a planet yesterday.

WFGDVTF.jpg



EDIT: False alarm, some bug maybe. After honking scanner, they reappeared. It's strange anyway as I landed that moon yesterday.
 
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Codger

Codger
Th3 0utKa5t said:
how we did it, my pal was carrying a casket and relic while i guided him round in my ship, in my ship cargo i had all 6 items from the ruin, while he scanned with the SRV i was getting all the data while he got the odd one or to with right combos, we then swapped place, i scanned while he flew around with all 6 items in cargo, he then got 14 data sets, that worked for us.
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How close did you have to be in the ship?

I wonder if just parking a ship full of items nearby works, also?

It might make it possible for one person to do it, albeit slowly.
 

Th3 0utKa5t

Th3 0utKa5t
artigan99 said:
How close did you have to be in the ship?

I wonder if just parking a ship full of items nearby works, also?

It might make it possible for one person to do it, albeit slowly.
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He was directly above me almost touching my shields, someone has tried the ship landing nearby with full cargo, i don't think it worked for them.
 

Jorki Rasalas

Jorki Rasalas
Soon(TM) said:
I know, but surely they knew people would relog and switch instances to reset it.

You would have thought they would take that into account and design said puzzle so it doesn't promote relogging.

I'm all for puzzles, especially ones that can be solved in game without spectrographs and such, but they should work in a way that isn't immersion breaking.
Click to expand...

Cheating & Immersion breaking?
So do you reset your account & start from scratch every time you're killed by an NPC pirate?
 

danteuk

danteuk
Ruins Bug List

Maybe given how many people are finding issues this little list should be added to the FP and kept up to date too!

Bugs and/or bad/confusing design choices:
1) delayed / out of sequence inbox messages
FDev: we are aware of this happening and it is under investigation
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...ssage-delivery

2) obelisks don't reset ( at least not within a hour or so ) forcing cmdrs to have to either leave the site and return ( painful due to no planet location bookmark feature still ! ) or simply do a reset ( disconnect and reconnect, much easier and quicker than leaving site and returning! )
FDev: The Obelisks should return to an active state after a certain about of time(but I'm unable to release that information.). This should be working as intended
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...-private-group

3) cmdrs get result of scans from every other cmdrs at the site ( open and pg ) so if no artefacts in your ship hold you'll be spammed by ram tams wrong combination message, if you have all the artefacts in your hold you'll start getting positive scan results ( even if the cmdr doing the scan had the wrong combo ) - upside: free money with no effort!!
FDev: we are aware of this happening and it is under in investigation. Thank you for reporting.
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...7-ancient-data

4) random disconnects and CTD ( personally I've been lucky and not had any of those, yet, but it seems plenty of other are less fortunate )
FDev: we are aware of this happening and it is under investigation
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...-obelisk-group
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showth...ication-Server

5) towers raise out of the ground, sometimes fully, sometimes only partially, sometimes I see only the relic raised and it's 3 protective pillers but no base(just seen this in PG now!), sometimes the relic doesn't raise ( maybe intentional if in a open or PG ? certainly strange, one cmdr can see the relic stuck underground and another in the same instance sees the relic on the tower - sounds like a bug ).
FDev: - couldn't find a bug log for this -

6) in pg or open, random obelisks can become active and can also become inactive again, even while you are trying to scan it!
FDev: - couldn't find a bug log for this -

7) doesn't seem possible to get more than 13 data scans in solo.
FDev: - have not even confirmed or denied this! -


I suspect there are more issues but I can't remember them right now.
 
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Comandante

Comandante
I got my first alien winterdiction last night. I was careful to note the rough angle it left through it's hyper-jump. It looks to me roughly like it was heading toward the LMC, not sure if this has been the case for the other winterdictions?
 

John Stoutbeard

John Stoutbeard
Lazarus Kerman said:
This might point in the direction of doing a correct string. Go to obelisk x, ok scan, no reward yet, but activates another obelisk y(perhaps one outside the default 15), where you have to get the scan right on the first try, or the series resets again.
So a series of correct combinations at the correct obelisks.

Do we have a list of obelisk that return this 'empty' state 3? I'm to go and scan these, then drive around without scanning trying to find 'extra' obelisks.

I don't know but this feels like a very classic puzzle structure ...
Click to expand...

I dont have spreadsheet online, however, i'll give you this video and description
From the 'official' FP spreadsheet, reference : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...KpHDY0ZMl-JtG51tr8-syePTIs/htmlview?sle=true#

Focus on ECHO grid, do scan E-1
In this video we use Orb+Totem. I'm not doing the scan, I can't produce it anymore since I may already have triggered 'mine'.
However, Arguendo was able to trigger it.

As for other's I've noticed the inbox sounds, for E-1:
Orb Orb
Orb Relic
Orb Tablet
Orb Totem

Please excuse my terrible stuttering & video quality.

[video=youtube;95-7Jsi_nB4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95-7Jsi_nB4[/video]
 
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Jorki Rasalas

Jorki Rasalas
CMDR Kohen said:
Maybe some of us should head out on our ships to try to find the second and third sites.

They should be also in the planet, or the moons around. Would be lore friendly if this planet serves as a obelisk network server of shorts. and with the dificulty of spoting this sites from orbit it should be easy that we missed them.

I´ll start by exploring this planet and see if i can find something, then ill move to another moon.

But let me suggest this, this beings love geometrical forms no? We know for the amount of data missing there has to be 2 more sites, i think they should be arranged on a triangle. Any matematizians reading this that have an idea on how to locate such positions on a sphere (the planet)? probably there is a mathematical way to set 2 more sites on the surface of the planet that mathematically are at equal distances one from the other... Is it not an interesting idea?
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I agree that there are more ruins to be found to fulfill this mission. i agree with RedWizzard they may be 20ly nearby (though with reservations, they may be more than that, or less, it depends on their concept of distance). It is possible that they may be arranged in a triangle (I assume you mean equilateral); however 3 ark ships plus Guardian home world means four sites at least. My own suspicion is that they may be arranged in a hexagon (as per the hexagonal lozenge wall of the Synuefe ruin, and I suspect this site is represented by the small circle while Homeworld is the larger).
 
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Canoe

Canoe
Has anyone tried leaving the relics intact within their towers, but shooting off the shielding cases (3) around them? My only remaining thought is if the relics need to communicate with the obelisks, but with the casings removed from around them.
 

John Stoutbeard

John Stoutbeard
Zulu Romeo said:
Has anyone tried working in pairs or groups of 3, bringing more than 2 objects with them, and roving along together while seeing if anything lights up?

If that fails and this one site is not the sole source of the solution, I feel that if we've exhausted all 34 data from here, there needs to be a concerted move to find one or more additional sites.
Click to expand...

It's what we tried yesterday, on stream. I don't recommend you watch it though - but you have a summary here:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...9-The-Canonn?p=5005184&viewfull=1#post5005184

The point was to do a test in a controlled environment with only a few commanders.
 
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Zebarmy

Zebarmy
Canoe said:
Has anyone tried leaving the relics intact within their towers, but shooting off the shielding cases (3) around them? My only remaining thought is if the relics need to communicate with the obelisks, but with the casings removed from around them.
Click to expand...

I tried this in solo with no change, can trying in group is pointless until I get some friends that don't shoot everything in sight and work methodically ;)
 

VeNoM56k

VeNoM56k
Canoe said:
Has anyone tried leaving the relics intact within their towers, but shooting off the shielding cases (3) around them? My only remaining thought is if the relics need to communicate with the obelisks, but with the casings removed from around them.
Click to expand...

I spent about an hour last night trying that exact thing. I tried to shoot off the sides of the pillars so the light beam was directed at one another. Nothing happened. Tried loads of different combos. I still have stuff to try with it. I want to have it set up the way I did with the light directed at one another while the eclipse happens. I doubt anything will happen. But I am willing to try anything ATM. :D
 

Canoe

Canoe
Zebarmy said:
I tried this in solo with no change, can trying in group is pointless until I get some friends that don't shoot everything in sight and work methodically ;)
Click to expand...

Just double-checked myself, no effect. Thanks to you, veNoM56k and Panzertard for already pushing this one. I'm out of ideas.
 
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