PVP piracy - Destroyed three trader ships over 4t of cargo... help me understand

[Jimmysal]

There is no reason for them to trust you. Letting them go? What kind of pirate does that?

One that realizes that if you kill traders regardless of compliance, their default action becomes running, CL, or suicide by pirate. One that realizes that a 600Cr assault bounty and subsequent 8 minute time-out in the system next door gets you back to being a bad guy faster than a 6000Cr murder bounty and trip to the Sidewinder dealership.

 

[CMDR LACEWING]

PvP piracy is pretty much dead just because of one reason. There is no reliable way to disable a ship wihout destroying it. Like many people already said, most of the traders either flee or try to fight back. For the pirate it means that he kills pretty much every trader without payoff. That's also the reason why I stopped pirating long time ago.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

1. Ever run in to someone here who does not speak English? There are a few.
2. Some would rather die than give a pirate anything.
3. Sometime people don't happen to notice their comms - I miss things often enough because I'm looking at actual important things. This seems a flaw in the game more than anything. It would be an improvement if voice comms could be "forced", or we had an option to generate a sound when non-npc comms are received.
4. Some folk just don't belong in Open and are unable or unwilling to go into any other mode.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

PvP piracy is pretty much dead just because of one reason. There is no reliable way to disable a ship wihout destroying it. Like many people already said, most of the traders either flee or try to fight back. For the pirate it means that he kills pretty much every trader without payoff. That's also the reason why I stopped pirating long time ago.

Actually it's doesn't. Pirates have the option to flee as well if their victim puts up a fight - especially if they do it badly. At low hull, is it better to murder someone and add to your own bounty, or simply vacate and leave them beaten but alive, and spare yourself the murder rap?

There is also the matter of Outfitting.

It took me a good while to figure out why I had such a time bringing a subsystem to 0% before a hull.

Then, while screwing around in another small ship I realized it - too big of guns. Yes, you can kill a fly with a howitzer, but the collateral damage... A class 4 cannon is "too much gun" to blow the power plant out of an Eagle. A class 1 cannon does it much better, as strange as that seems.

 

[ShimEnki]

The comms panel is not ideal because if you're looking down at your instruments you may not notice that you've been sent a text message. So it's entirely possible that upon being interdicted, your customers didn't see your hails and decided to make a run for it just in case. Once the fireworks start, the last thing I look at is my comms panel.

I totally agree, the comms panel...

FD its 2017 already!! and 3000+ in gawyme

I still think there are many casual players that might not know how to elegantly access the comms panel to make replies even if they feel free enough to look there when an attack is occurring (its not as if FD has made that something we can use and become practiced with NPCs) and that some casuals dont even realize they are playing in the open and what open means.

 

[{SAS}Stalker]

Here are my tips.

• If you can get them to speak to you then get some RP going. Explain to them you have some baby Zebras to feed or a deep rooted tribble infection that wont quit. You've made the decision that other payers are your content you need to ensure that you are fun content for them and not just some random person interrupting their valuable game time.
• I've seen pirates have good success when asking their quarry to choose their own amount to be jettisoned.
• Never insist on abandoned goods, you are a pirate so you should expect to be treated as such when it comes to selling them.
• Don't take the mickey by repeatedly pirating the same people
• Have rum to hand
• Finally killing is a last resort, its better to let them go and pull them again later when they know you wont kill them they may be more open to getting involved.

 

[StevieG]

PvP piracy is pretty much dead just because of one reason. There is no reliable way to disable a ship wihout destroying it. Like many people already said, most of the traders either flee or try to fight back. For the pirate it means that he kills pretty much every trader without payoff. That's also the reason why I stopped pirating long time ago.

I would say the one reason is because "Pirates" are not "Pirates" they are murderers. The reaction of the trader is a symptom of the "Pirates" not pirating but murdering. So if all you "Pirates" actually pirated instead of murdering every trader you come across because he didnt stop then you might actually get some to stop for you. But as you are not "Pirates" you are murderers pretending to pirate then you only have yourselves to blame for the current state of affairs.

 

[Globusdiablo]

...

• Finally killing is a last resort, its better to let them go and pull them again later when they know you wont kill them they may be more open to getting involved.

One would think that this point is obvious, but apparently not.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

One would think that this point is obvious, but apparently not.

Sage Wisdom: Things are always in the last place we look, because once we've found them, why would we continue to look for them?

 

[CMDR LACEWING]

Actually it's doesn't. Pirates have the option to flee as well if their victim puts up a fight - especially if they do it badly. At low hull, is it better to murder someone and add to your own bounty, or simply vacate and leave them beaten but alive, and spare yourself the murder rap?

There is also the matter of Outfitting.

It took me a good while to figure out why I had such a time bringing a subsystem to 0% before a hull.

Then, while screwing around in another small ship I realized it - too big of guns. Yes, you can kill a fly with a howitzer, but the collateral damage... A class 4 cannon is "too much gun" to blow the power plant out of an Eagle. A class 1 cannon does it much better, as strange as that seems.

One does not simply leave a trader alive if he doesn't submit. Maybe he'll think twice next time, whether he wants to face the rebuy screen again. It made me actually laugh when I imagined that I start to run when the T6 deploys his peashooter. Btw. I pirated in an Asp.

I would say the one reason is because "Pirates" are not "Pirates" they are murderers. The reaction of the trader is a symptom of the "Pirates" not pirating but murdering. So if all you "Pirates" actually pirated instead of murdering every trader you come across because he didnt stop then you might actually get some to stop for you. But as you are not "Pirates" you are murderers pretending to pirate then you only have yourselves to blame for the current state of affairs.

I never killed anyone in Elite without reason. But you're right most of the interdicting players just want to blow you up because they can. Don't confuse them with pirates though.

 

[IndigoWyrd]

One does not simply leave a trader alive if he doesn't submit. Maybe he'll think twice next time, whether he wants to face the rebuy screen again. It made me actually laugh when I imagined that I start to run when the T6 deploys his peashooter. Btw. I pirated in an Asp.

So here's a question for all you pirates:

Do you limit your piracy just to the actual trade ships (Type-6, Type-7, Type-9) or are you willing to take on Corvettes, Cutters and Anacondas as well? Granted, most folks (mis)using these for trade ships are going to be more bluster than substance, but I'm just curious.

 

[Maverick and Goose]

So here's a question for all you pirates:

Do you limit your piracy just to the actual trade ships (Type-6, Type-7, Type-9) or are you willing to take on Corvettes, Cutters and Anacondas as well? Granted, most folks (mis)using these for trade ships are going to be more bluster than substance, but I'm just curious.

I'll take on anything up to and including an Annie (when I'm in my own Annie). Cutters and vettes are pointless because I can't mass lock.

Piracy is not dead. At all. Last week's CG made me a cool 17 mil + the profit on selling the commodities. Ditto the week before.

Sure, I could go do boring missions while watching Netflix and make more, but I already have a full time job. This is a game. And piracy is fun.

I also started in an asp, pirating ships on the rares routes

 

[CMDR LACEWING]

So here's a question for all you pirates:

Do you limit your piracy just to the actual trade ships (Type-6, Type-7, Type-9) or are you willing to take on Corvettes, Cutters and Anacondas as well? Granted, most folks (mis)using these for trade ships are going to be more bluster than substance, but I'm just curious.

I didn't took fights I couldn't win or get any cargo from, if that answers your question.

 

[Querty Out]

To summarise so far, looks like there a few more lines of thought:

- Traders don't trust anyone and and expect to get killed anyway, so why not run for it
- Panic, traders not reacting appropriately

Thanks for your replies. There seem to be two main lines of thought.

1. Traders missed the messages
That may well be the case. The first message I've sent right after interdiction was in local chat. That's a bit faster than a direct message but it's easier to miss. A suggestion for FDev would be to emphasise local messages from commanders, maybe a bit less than direct messages but more than the NPC background chatter.

2. Traders don't want to compromise, no cargo for pirates
In the specific incidents there was no fighting back, just a continuous attempt to escape. I'd hope for some PVP from 'no compromise' traders but can understand that not everyone enjoys that. I guess that kind of situation can only see improvement once some severe punishment in high security systems is in place with traders having options to avoid high risk areas in Open altogether (assuming that CGs are partially in high sec systems).

- - - Updated - - -

I can think of numerous reasons why an Open trader might choose to run rather than submit to demands.

- "Don't reward the terrorists, it only encourages them". Spend millions on rebuys, not one cent in tribute - that sort of thing. In other words, they're RPing a character who refuses to give comfort to criminals, even at personal risk and expense. I never play in Open, but if I did, I would definitely play this way; it's how I play against the NPCs. No criminal scum is getting one rusty scrap of biowaste out of my cargo hold.

- Perhaps the last time someone interdicted them and issued demands, they were blown up anyway for the LOLs, even when they complied with the demands. Let's call this option "experience".

- A variant on the second reason above, that they may be so busy g out and trying to escape that they aren't really paying attention to anything in Comms.

- The interdicted player may not be speaking the same language you are, and/or may not be familiar enough with the language to understand any unusual jargon or abbreviations you may have used in your communications. Especially if you're going the full talk-like-a-pirate RP.

- They may have accidentally hit "Open" instead of some other mode and never noticed the potential danger until too late.

I haven't thought of a potential language barrier, good point. If people responded in a different language then at least I'd know and could deal with it.

 

[Querty Out]

You doing it right! It would be a pleasure for me to get pirated from you

Did they have a cargo?

I assume they had because the CG's goal was to deliver cargo. The one I tried to scan while running got away and I had to interdict again. I didn't attempt to scan the others while they were boosting away.

- - - Updated - - -

Should have asked for 3.

I like your thinking! Will try at the next opportunity.

 

[shadragon]

But: Some players chose to be destroyed rather than dropping 4t. They are in Open with the chance of piracy and when someone comes along with very reasonable demands they seem to prefer losing their ship over it??

Help me understand.... Why?

I never drop cargo to pirates, ever. If my ship gets destroyed, so be it, but I'm never giving in to thuggery. Don't take things off people who have worked for them. Want something, work for it yourself.

I do appreciate that piracy is a viable career in Elite and good luck to all who want to follow that path, but your definition of "reasonable demands" and mine are very different.

 

[Mr_Blastman]

So here's a question for all you pirates:

Do you limit your piracy just to the actual trade ships (Type-6, Type-7, Type-9) or are you willing to take on Corvettes, Cutters and Anacondas as well? Granted, most folks (mis)using these for trade ships are going to be more bluster than substance, but I'm just curious.

I'll pirate anything. Every ship is fair game.

 

[shadragon]

Maybe they would rather die even if running than roll over for a crook.

Can't rep you again Ben. Sorry. Virtual +1

 

[Mr_Blastman]

I also started in an asp, pirating ships on the rares routes

An ASP? I started in a viper mk iii.

Glad I did, too. Those were awesome fun times.

 

[Querty Out]

Why you killing them? Take down their shields, disable their thrusters and use your cargo hatch limpets! Or are you just pretending to be a pirate?

Well, I have never pirated anyone IRL. A few layers of 'pretend' won't hurt.

See also previous response and following.

In regards to using hatch breakers or shooting out drives: I admit I wasn't a very sophisticated pirate. Instead of a scalpel I brought a sledge hammer, a FAS with plasmas and frags. The only thing 'piraty' onboard was a cargo scanner and a cargo rack, so if traders waited for me to shoot out their drives... they were out of luck.