PVP piracy - Destroyed three trader ships over 4t of cargo... help me understand

[Lateralus]

Lmao, missed this gem. If this is what passes for harassment I think I'll just go ahead and jump off a cliff or go hide in the woods before I harass someone with my opinion they disagree with.

Error stop harassing everyone... you're such a griefer.

 

[Comrade Error]

Nope, you're entirely wrong. First, these are not facts, neither are yours, they're claims and interpretations.

Secondly, it's YOUR definition I'm being bound to, so I HAVE to give it a different name. Don't blame me for your intransigence and desire not to think. Go read your EULA, there's harassment right in there. Griefing which is what you want to do, is a violation of the license, without which you don't get to connect, therefore don't get to play the game since it's a server-required game.

You want to force others to play PvP because you play it, they have only one negotiation tactic to take: Strategic Exiting. It's not an exploit, it's the only option available.

Ah I see. ''Combat logging is against the rules'' is simply an interpriation.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/cheat

intransitive verb
1
a : to practice fraud or trickery <denied the accusation that he cheated>
b : to violate rules dishonestly <cheat at cards> <cheating on a test>

http://www.dictionary.com/browse/cheating

verb (used without object)

5.
to violate rules or regulations:
He cheats at cards.

My bad.

Go ahead and quote me the part in the EULA about harassment. And nice job assuming all types of stuff. I'm actually part of ISIS, not a griefer, get it right.

 

[NeilF]

So I was pirating at the Parun CG last night and had 6, or so, customers. My demands were: drop 4t (four!) of cargo. I've stated demands before opening fire (and waited for a response) and then repeatedly while firing at the target. I let players go if they dropped cargo even if they tried to run first (other pirates may not).

But: Some players chose to be destroyed rather than dropping 4t. They are in Open with the chance of piracy and when someone comes along with very reasonable demands they seem to prefer losing their ship over it??

Help me understand.... Why?

Because:-
1) A lot of CMDRs are now trained to expect interdiction = destruction?
2) The message mechanics for a pirate to get his terms across are lacking - In the panic, maybe the victim doesn't see or have time to read little messages popping into his coms window?
3) To drop cargo, the victim has to actively make themselves more of a target. ie: They need to duck through side panels, pressing numerous keys, which they may not even be overly familiar with.
4) The CMDR may not even speak English?


On a side note: To get 4+T of cargo? Surely the new limpets are there just for this? They even go through shields now don't they?

 

[Sterling MH]

Error stop harassing everyone... you're such a griefer.

Yup. If another player doesn't want to participate in PvP, then his interference is exactly what griefing (in computer games) is.

Ask. If your target says "Nope", leave. If they say "Oh get away you scurvy pirate!" and starts to run away, chase them but if they get away, go "Drats, the navigator will be keelhauled!", if they drop cargo, pick it up. But don't interdict again. They got away.

But many griefers pretending they're just being pirates (you can pirate NPCs you know, but they're not griefed, so you don't want to: but remember, THEY didn't want to PvP, and you didn't care about that) are proud to proclaim there's no need to even scan a ship, or demand booty, they just open fire immediately.

And given that those claiming they're "pirates" are telling everyone this, then there's no method of negotiation other than Strategic Exiting.

So what if you think that's cheating, your ignorance of their gameplay is cheating too. Boo hoo for you.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Anyone got anything constructive to say, or are people just happy baiting each other?

We can always lock the thread if there is nothing worthwhile left saying....

 

[Comrade Error]

Go away agony .-.

 

[Sterling MH]

Because:-
1) A lot of CMDRs are now trained to expect interdiction = destruction?
2) The message mechanics for a pirate to get his terms across are lacking - In the panic, maybe the victim doesn't see or have time to read little messages popping into his coms window?
3) To drop cargo, the victim has to actively make themselves more of a target. ie: They need to duck through side panels, pressing numerous keys, which they may not even be overly familiar with.
4) The CMDR may not even speak English?

5) they don't want to play PvP. They don't want to be the fudgebunny and until there's fighter escorts to protect them, they can't defend against "pirates", so this is asymmetrical warfare, and the way to win that is not to play the way the oppo wants you to.

6) They were in a safe area, the flavourtext says so, but the game has no C&P, therefore there's no way to avoid player "pirates" "in game".

The "pirate" has no risk and that's unfair because the game is not yet complete. The pirate has no reason to stick to "pirate-y" areas and methods because there's no C&P to give them that reason. That means there's nothing to avoid unwanted PvP other than strategic exiting.

And as people leave, the griefer problem gets worse and the "pirates" get more violent to get their jollies before there's nobody to hurt but each other in a fair fight. Which risks them seeing the rebuy screen without seeing someone else hurt first.

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Anyone got anything constructive to say, or are people just happy baiting each other?

We can always lock the thread if there is nothing worthwhile left saying....

There pretty much isn't anything new to say. The lines are drawn and neither side sees any reason to move them in what the other side wants.

And this will likely be true of any PvP/Pirate conversation after a week, since in that time everyone who has a point and wants to make it has made it,and it's again at the "Here is my line" and there's nothing to make them meet.

All the constructive stuff now has to be what methods to change C&P to make it possible to move those lines and make them meet or even overlap.

 

[Lateralus]

Yup. If another player doesn't want to participate in PvP, then his interference is exactly what griefing (in computer games) is.

Ask. If your target says "Nope", leave. If they say "Oh get away you scurvy pirate!" and starts to run away, chase them but if they get away, go "Drats, the navigator will be keelhauled!", if they drop cargo, pick it up. But don't interdict again. They got away.

But many griefers pretending they're just being pirates (you can pirate NPCs you know, but they're not griefed, so you don't want to: but remember, THEY didn't want to PvP, and you didn't care about that) are proud to proclaim there's no need to even scan a ship, or demand booty, they just open fire immediately.

And given that those claiming they're "pirates" are telling everyone this, then there's no method of negotiation other than Strategic Exiting.

So what if you think that's cheating, your ignorance of their gameplay is cheating too. Boo hoo for you.

Interesting... begging then yes?

 

[babelfisch]

Breaking the rules = Cheating, not sure what games you play where someone doing something that's against the rules isn't cheating. Picked up the ball with your hands and ran into the goal? Cheating.

It is "against the rules" and punishable according to FD.. that's all anyone needs to know tbh.. how you define it makes little difference.

You missed the point. I know that it's against the rules, no need for indoctrination. What you don't understand is that you would have an easier time discussing it if you would use exploit instead of cheating, because some people have different definitions of these words.

 

[Lateralus]

You missed the point. I know that it's against the rules, no need for indoctrination. What you don't understand is that you would have an easier time discussing it if you would use exploit instead of cheating, because some people have different definitions of these words.

Why get hung-up and distracted by the wording used? It's the sort of method a politician would use while getting interviewed by a hostile reporter on breakfast TV news to avoid answering awkward questions...

 

[CMDR LACEWING]

Ask. If your target says "Nope", leave. If they say "Oh get away you scurvy pirate!" and starts to run away, chase them but if they get away, go "Drats, the navigator will be keelhauled!", if they drop cargo, pick it up. But don't interdict again. They got away.

But many griefers pretending they're just being pirates (you can pirate NPCs you know, but they're not griefed, so you don't want to: but remember, THEY didn't want to PvP, and you didn't care about that) are proud to proclaim there's no need to even scan a ship, or demand booty, they just open fire immediately.

I agree with you that a working C&P system is needed to stop the current anarchy in ED. But even with C&P there still won't be consent in piracy. In fact a pirate doesn't want consent from traders (at least I don't). The last thing I want to read when pirating is: "Oh no don't touch my cargo hatch you dirty pirate, tehehe".
This is how all MMOs work and probably the reason why they are so popular. If you want learn more watch this:

Spoiler

[video=youtube;yxpW2ltDNow]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxpW2ltDNow[/video]
[video=youtube;1drDuaQXm_U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1drDuaQXm_U[/video]

 

[Comrade Error]

You missed the point. I know that it's against the rules, no need for indoctrination. What you don't understand is that you would have an easier time discussing it if you would use exploit instead of cheating, because some people have different definitions of these words.

Thing is when it's called an exploit people are less inclined to think there should be consequences to doing it. Most think of exploits as victimless small bugs or such that are exploitable to gain an advantage.

- - - Updated - - -

There pretty much isn't anything new to say. The lines are drawn and neither side sees any reason to move them in what the other side wants.

And this will likely be true of any PvP/Pirate conversation after a week, since in that time everyone who has a point and wants to make it has made it,and it's again at the "Here is my line" and there's nothing to make them meet.

All the constructive stuff now has to be what methods to change C&P to make it possible to move those lines and make them meet or even overlap.

I like how when the mod comes in it's all "be reasonable!", you almost forget he wants pirates who interdict a victim the second time after they got away to be perma banned for harassment. Did I say pirate? I ment griefer, because if you do that you are no longer a pirate but a griefer.

 

[babelfisch]

Why get hung-up and distracted by the wording used? It's the sort of method a politician would use while getting interviewed by a hostile reporter on breakfast TV news to avoid answering awkward questions...

No, that's what you are doing.

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Thing is when it's called an exploit people are less inclined to think there should be consequences to doing it. Most think of exploits as victimless small bugs or such that are exploitable to gain an advantage.

People already don't care about combat logging, don't think it would get worse.

BTW
Wasn't this thread supposed to be about being incompetent at pirating?

 

[Sterling MH]

I agree with you that a working C&P system is needed to stop the current anarchy in ED. But even with C&P there still won't be consent in piracy

But pirates don't pick on the very few CMDR, they pick all tradeships.

And this isn't real life, it's a game. Moreover, it's a multiplayer one, which means everyone has the right to play the game they're playing, not playing the one others insist they do. Player-player kills and player-player damage could be turned off, as many team based shooters to to prevent friendly fire. And Pirates still have most of the ships in the game to pirate from. Should they be made to put up with a PvE gameplay, though?

Well when they grief players who don't want PvP by fighting them anyway, turning it without consent into PvP, they're doing the exact same thing. If each player on login turned on or off friendly fire, you'd still be able to PvP, but trying someone who has set it to PvE would ALSO be unacceptable to you or those claiming "I is pirate!".

So if consent is not required, such "friendly fire off" are the PvE way to get nonconsentual PvE play for those who wanted to play differently, the precise same system as we currently have, but swapped E to P.

Without consent, it's not PvP. It's bullying. It's hijacking the game.

And so, since this is a game, not real life, and they're not pirates making their living from this cargo arrest, we have to decide how best to accommodate everyones taste, either with consent, in which case PvP must obey consent, or without, in which case there's the "Friendly fire on/off" switch, either globally or per-user.

 

[Minonian]

So I was pirating at the Parun CG last night and had 6, or so, customers. My demands were: drop 4t (four!) of cargo. I've stated demands before opening fire (and waited for a response) and then repeatedly while firing at the target. I let players go if they dropped cargo even if they tried to run first (other pirates may not).

But: Some players chose to be destroyed rather than dropping 4t. They are in Open with the chance of piracy and when someone comes along with very reasonable demands they seem to prefer losing their ship over it??

Help me understand.... Why?

Let me ask you this. How sensible to let criminals govern your life?
Kill him, or be killed is much more sensible approach from the look of the other end. You know why? Because if you yield to the demands, just once, after your pinky finger they will going to demand your entire arm. And its never going to be end.

Its not ends even if you don't? True... But in the other hand? You did not get what you want. And if a "work" like this is entirely fruitless, furthermore contraproductive, because of the danger and losses, Than who will going to do it in the long run?

Edit; As a personal sidenote? And with this someone got the answer no matter what he do how long he dong? In what he wants i never going to change neither hold back myself. This universe going to end sooner than that will happen.

 

[CMDR Zadian Lichtfrost]

…
BTW
Wasn't this thread supposed to be about being incompetent at pirating?

No it was about a pirate asking why some players prefer to get blow up instead of giving the pirate just 4t of cargo. In my opinion trying to understand why other players do something is a step in the right direction.

For some players getting blow up is obviously a lesser "evil" than getting forced to do something against their will.

Trying to understand that is the first step, accepting it is the next step, adjusting actions according to the new found understanding of the other player would then solve a lot of problems.

It goes both ways btw.

 

[babelfisch]

No it was about a pirate asking why some players prefer to get blow up instead of giving the pirate just 4t of cargo. In my opinion trying to understand why other players do something is a step in the right direction.

For some players getting blow up is obviously a lesser "evil" than getting forced to do something against their will.

Trying to understand that is the first step, accepting it is the next step, adjusting actions according to the new found understanding of the other player would then solve a lot of problems.

It goes both ways btw.

He is the worst pirate in the galaxy though, because blowing ships up doesn't give him any cargo, while using hatch breakers would. Hence it's an incompetent pirate.

He failed at piracy.

 

[Comrade Error]

No, that's what you are doing.

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People already don't care about combat logging, don't think it would get worse.

BTW
Wasn't this thread supposed to be about being incompetent at pirating?

You asked me to use exploit instead.

"You should use exploit instead of cheating."

"No because of X Y and Z"

"People don't care about it anyway omg."

Clearly you care enough about it to try to correct me on what I should call CL.

 

[babelfisch]

Clearly you care enough about it to try to correct me on what I should call CL.

No, I don't care about it at all. I play mostly in solo. Just want to give you a tip on how to be more efficient in discussions, since you are so full of yourself you missed it.

PS

"You should use the correct term"
"But then people will stop taking me serious"
"They didn't take you serious to begin with"
*posts random internet meme*

Yes, that's how you sound.

 

[CMDR LACEWING]

But pirates don't pick on the very few CMDR, they pick all tradeships.

And this isn't real life, it's a game. Moreover, it's a multiplayer one, which means everyone has the right to play the game they're playing, not playing the one others insist they do. Player-player kills and player-player damage could be turned off, as many team based shooters to to prevent friendly fire. And Pirates still have most of the ships in the game to pirate from. Should they be made to put up with a PvE gameplay, though?

Well when they grief players who don't want PvP by fighting them anyway, turning it without consent into PvP, they're doing the exact same thing. If each player on login turned on or off friendly fire, you'd still be able to PvP, but trying someone who has set it to PvE would ALSO be unacceptable to you or those claiming "I is pirate!".

So if consent is not required, such "friendly fire off" are the PvE way to get nonconsentual PvE play for those who wanted to play differently, the precise same system as we currently have, but swapped E to P.

Without consent, it's not PvP. It's bullying. It's hijacking the game.

And so, since this is a game, not real life, and they're not pirates making their living from this cargo arrest, we have to decide how best to accommodate everyones taste, either with consent, in which case PvP must obey consent, or without, in which case there's the "Friendly fire on/off" switch, either globally or per-user.

Yes this is a game, a game that tries to simulate a scifi universe with pirates, traders, bounty hunters and what not. This is also avertised as such and in this universe you can get pirated or blown up at any moment. In opinion this happens too often though, what drives every trader in solo. It's actually logical. Traders get nothing but misery from playing in open, so why should they.