Powerplay Proposal of a chart for the support to Open mode in Powerplay

As you may know, I've been a long time supporter of the Open mode, especially with respect to Powerplay. I think that the Open mode is an added value to Powerplay and it improves the game experience.

Lead game designer Sandro Sammarco already showed some support for Open mode in Powerplay. I'd like to highlight in particular this remark about giving a bonus to Open:

If you already play in Open then you could treat this bonus as a reward for working with the game to make it the best it can be for all involved.

I completely agree with Sandro on this point, playing in Open makes the game the best it can be for all involved.

We at the Hudson power always asked our supporters to carry out their activities in Open. As a result, some lore developed around some Imperial groups that dedicate themselves to hunt our Commanders in Open, like Lavigny's Legion. Their commanders, in particular CMDR Na'Qan and his squadron of stealth ships, are known to raid Nanomam on a regular basis. These actions also brought them to the front page in Galnet and make them a permanent part of the Elite lore. Now, none of this would have ever happened if the Hudson CMDRs never showed up in Open. (BTW, I've also played the hunter and the prey in various occasions, and I wouldn't hesitate to call them some of the most memorable moments I had in the game.)

Unfortunately, some Powerplay-focused player groups don't follow the same policy and they carry out their activities in Private groups. I believe that every CMDR has the right of playing the game in the way he wants. But I couldn't accept that a player group involved in Powerplay may adopt a solo-only or PG-only policy for all of their activities and members. I think that it is opposed to the spirit of Powerplay and, as Sandro said, it is not making the best it can be for all involved.

Therefore, I propose that all the leaders of Powerplay-focused groups sign a chart to support Powerplay in Open. This would just mean, for instance, that when players join their discord/facebook/reddit/etc. groups, they should be communicated clearly that the Open mode is the preferred mode for their activities. But of course such a chart should be discussed and agreed upon by all groups.
 
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There is a possible alternative approach to giving a bonus for using OPEN... Where possible segregate contributions in OPEN and non-OPEN totals, and then these are simply applied in a ratio of 50/50 or 60/40 for the grand/final total....

This same approach could be used for CGs too to evaluate your final standing in the ranks?


As regards what counts as open/non-open. Let's consider carrying something (X) from A to B? If "X" ever exists (on your ship) in a non-OPEN instance, then it is flagged as such... It would then contribute to the non-OPEN total instead of the OPEN total.
 
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I fully support Power Play to be ONLY in Open play. It will drive human interaction as the players won't be able to build up merits without risk and more important they will be able to perform important missions and know where they stand as opposed to some non-Federation factions doing it all behind closed doors......
 
I fully support Power Play to be ONLY in Open play. It will drive human interaction as the players won't be able to build up merits without risk and more important they will be able to perform important missions and know where they stand as opposed to some non-Federation factions doing it all behind closed doors......

Me too... But alas I think we'd be out voted... Hence the suggestion in post #2
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Lead game designer Sandro Sammarco already showed some support for Open mode in Powerplay. I'd like to highlight in particular this remark about giving a bonus to Open:

Indeed he did:

And since I'm in the mood for pulling hand grenades :), here's another thing to chew on: I'm currently rather taken by the concept of a success multiplier for Commanders in Open Play. this modifier would not improve personal gains from power play activities, but it would magnify the effectiveness of a power's actions (expand, oppose, fortify, undermine). And the effect would probably be significant.

My thinking for this? At the moment, any way I slice it, I can't come to any conclusion other than Commanders in Open Play have a tougher time than those in Private Groups or Solo. So the playing field is basically uneven as it stands and in this case, maybe change could make things better.

... and, when asked in a recent stream whether it was going to happen:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uetVzNINdKU;t=26m40s

Sandro Sammarco said:
The first one's from Robert Maynard and he's saying "Has the pin been pulled on the hand grenade I posted in a Collusion Piracy thread?". Just for context this was, I was musing out loud about potentially Open Play Powerplay having some benefit to success over and above Private Groups and Solo - I just want to reiterate that was just me musing, we're not going to do that at the moment, there are no plans to do it, but it is still an interesting thought, nothing's ever completely off the table but nothing to announce at the moment.

.... and in answer to a question about how many hand grenades:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uetVzNINdKU;t=32m35s

Sandro Sammarco said:
How many grenades can I pull - as few as possible would be my answer, I think pulling grenades is a dangerous thing and I don't recommend it.

Frontier could, conceivably, have introduced Powerplay in Open only - they consciously chose not to do so, implementing it in all three game modes - just the same as all permanent game content* - therefore, while Powerplay offers those inclined the opportunity to directly oppose and be opposed, there is no requirement to do so.

*: with the exception of content, like Wings (and Multi-Crew), that specifically requires other players - but those features are implemented in both multi-player modes, of course.
 
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The proposal put forward here is not on the implementation of open/solo/group.

It is about an agreement between powers to promote open play among their own players on their various Discords/Subreddits and other sites.

So I would suggest that the post above is off topic.
 
/sigh.

I don't know why I'm still surprised people have not figured out PP was designed (like the rest of the game) around the ability for people to use all 3 game modes.

It is players pushing NPC tokens about.
Pick up a token and move it to another station or kill an NPC and get a token.
Which ever side gets the most tokens, wins that round for that week.

Player versus player interactions are not a major part of PP and never have been.
 
I've always been a fan of Sandro's idea about a bonus for open play, and I feel that it should be possible to contest Powerplay actions, whether they be offensive (undermining) or defensive (fortification etc.), which can only be done if the perpetrators are in open play. So I can only support this initiative to promote more open play... and ideally still get that bonus implemented at some point to at least give open players some small edge over those who choose to hide from any possible consequences.

So... Sandro. How about it? You threw the idea out there but never really followed up on it. Is it still on the table?
 
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...... at least give open players some small edge over those who choose to hide from any possible consequences.

Here we go with the insults - right on schedule.
Someone doesn't play how you want so they must be "hiding". :rolleyes:

Let's not look at those who cannot play open for various reasons, let's just insult everyone who won't play YOUR way.

So... Sandro. How about it? You threw the idea out there but never really followed up on it. Is it still on the table?

Try reading the posts before yours... it was never "on the table" to start with - it was just him thinking out loud. As is mentioned above.
 
I have no right to speak for the Legion as a whole, but I can already say that we make sure that all of our members are 100% aware of our Open Play policy. CMDRs are made aware of our Open Play policy even before being initiated into the Legion. I, personally, 100% agree with your proposal. I know that instancing does not always permit CMDRs who are in the same area to be in the same instance, but that issue will only become less of one if the galaxy becomes more saturated with players in Open.


- Immune Relick
 
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Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
The proposal put forward here is not on the implementation of open/solo/group.

It is about an agreement between powers to promote open play among their own players on their various Discords/Subreddits and other sites.

So I would suggest that the post above is off topic.

The aim of the OP is laudable (for those who like to engage in direct opposition in a feature that does not require it) - however, such a charter between Powerplay focused groups is vulnerable, in my opinion:

1) 5th columnists are unlikely to follow it;
2) not all Powerplayers know of / follow the lead of Powerplay focused groups, nor play in Open.

Any agreement to engage in Powerplay in Open will, when unexpected outcomes arise, very likely still lead to accusations of engagement in the other two modes by parties known (or unknown).
 
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I think the sportsmanlike subset of the playerbase will always support an "Open play" approach to Powerplay. During the time I was participating in Powerplay, I Powerplayed in Open. I scarcely ever saw a commander, though I didn't exactly go out hunting them or attracting attention to myself either. I spent an awful lot of time over many months in Archon territory back in the day, and only ever saw noobs flying their colors - yet they claim to always fly in Open. Heck, I even have a video on my YouTube channel that I took as a public apology to a poor Archon noob in an Asp that I couldn't bear killing again. Now, let me be clear that I don't doubt they Archon community did/do fly in Open. Timezones, instancing, and sheer bad luck are all sufficient reasons to me as to why I scarcely saw them. As someone who almost exclusively fortified / prepped since those "good old days," I never had a single enemy so much as attempt to interdict me. If I did, it wasn't memorable...

As I said, I think every sportsmanlike subset of the playerbase (regardless of allegiance) will always support "Open play," but I am very disappointed when commanders instantly assume that because they did not see the opposition or undermining take place while they were sitting in the system, that the other side must have been in Solo or Private. I'm sick of seeing the "you're in private!" "you're in solo" mudslinging on Reddit - ESPECIALLY when they are my friends slinging the mud (and I've expressed my disapproval to some of these commanders as recently as yesterday). I do not frequent the Frontier Forums, but I imagine that mudslinging is here too. That needs to stop. The more negativity that surrounds Powerplay, the fewer people will actually participate.

However, it should be taken into account that there are currently some significant flies in the ointment in making Powerplay a 100% from end to end Open-play experience.

One particularly annoying fly was reported in this bug thread:
https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/274785-Stations-Randomly-Turning-Hostile

Note the thread above was started on 18/07/2016. There is still no fix. Anyone hostile with the Federation who has the audacity to instance with another player at a station is at risk of being destroyed, because the station glitches and becomes Fed-aligned, even in systems where no Fed factions are present. This bug has cost Imperial strategists several snipes over the months, because snipers carrying thousands of merits were arbitrarily destroyed when another commander dropped into their instance at a station. This bug forces people to swap into Solo when they drop into a station's instance, or risk being destroyed and losing their merits. To be clear, this affects people regardless of Powerplay status. If you're hostile with the Federation and you're at a station, you can be destroyed by the station without warning.

Here's a great writeup on the bug. - https://www.reddit.com/r/EliteLavigny/comments/5sq35x/psa_combat_pilots_dont_let_the_fedbug_bite/

I've never been bitten by this bug personally (I haven't undermined Feds in about a year and a half and my Fed rep is "Friendly" - plus I find Fed/Imp conflicts a boring cliché), but numerous colleagues have. Before enhancing "Open only" merits, Frontier needs to get this bug sorted.

Other than that, I'd fully support the proposed measures for incentivizing Open play in Powerplay.
 
Any agreement to engage in Powerplay in Open will, when unexpected outcomes arise, very likely lead to accusations of engagement in the other two modes by parties known (or unknown).

Maybe, but that's happening already. But maybe a successful agreement among all known PP groups will lead FDev to make only Open affect PP. Is it that what you are afraid of?
 
On the flip side, we never saw you in open either and can make the same comment. You can smother the rest in caveats as much as you like, but it doesn't avoid the thrust of your allegation.

Saw plenty of Patreus pilots though who can corroborate seeing us. Also Aisling can do the same for the recent prep war.
 

Robert Maynard

Volunteer Moderator
Maybe, but that's happening already. But maybe a successful agreement among all known PP groups will lead FDev to make only Open affect PP. Is it that what you are afraid of?

I'm less bothered about Powerplay than the BGS itself - as the ability for all players, regardless of mode, to experience and affect the single shared galaxy state has been part of the published game design for as long as we have known about Elite: Dangerous.

However, Zac was quite clear in his response to a previous question on the effects of players, in modes other than Open, on Powerplay:

According to some members of the community, Solo players should have a limited or no effect on Powerplay - or, alternatively, playing in Open should offer Powerplay bonuses. Is this something you are considering?
No. For us Solo, Groups and Open are all valid and equal ways to play the game.

As was Michael in response to a similar query on Factions:

Is there planned to be any defense against the possibility that player created minor factions could be destroyed with no possible recourse through Private Groups or Solo play?

From the initial inception of the game we have considered all play modes are equally valid choices. While we are aware that some players disagree, this hasn't changed for us.

Michael

.... and mode perks have been asked about a long time ago now:

Hi Micheal
I know you said that solo/group and open will always use the same universe, can you also say that there will be no specific perks in playing in one mode over another? i.e bigger profit from trading in open or bigger bounties?
None are planned at the moment.
Michael
 
Which is content available in all modes, which is how it was designed.

That's right. Not sure the OP was going on about that.

No mudslinging going on as far as I can see, just a discussion on powers committing to play in open.

All the rest is off topic.
 
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