The Star Citizen Thread v5

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

And I repeat stop playing the victim card!

Stop trying to make me out as a white knight when I am far far from it. I don't need to defend CIG from every ludicrous statement or opinion that is being postulated as fact in this thread.

Insulting the intelligence of people in this thread my behind indeed.

You guys keep saying "discuss SC" but what you guys really mean is discuss SC in OUR manner with OUR mindset or we will drive you out of it with thinly veiled innuendo and insults.

.... Huh?

Are you feeling quite ok there Dandy?

Also, can you discuss Star Citizen, or are you more interested in deflecting and obsfucating the fact that there is, quite literally *nothing* to really discuss about the game, outside of the wild theorycrafting that is going on both within the more committed backers of SC and CIG themselves?

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I don't mind criticism of SC I do it often myself. No you guys want ONLY that nothing else.

Really now?

Because I've only seen you post on here fairly recently and all the posts I've seen from yourself regarding Star Citizen have been, erm, rather positive, to say the least.

In fact, not a word that is remotely considered "critical" or at least asking pertinent questions regarding why CIG seem to always miss their own self-appointed deadlines by a wide margin repeatedly, and stuff like that...

 

[Space Dandy]

.... Huh?

Are you feeling quite ok there Dandy?

Also, can you discuss Star Citizen, or are you more interested in deflecting and obsfucating the fact that there is, quite literally *nothing* to really discuss about the game, outside of the wild theorycrafting that is going on both within the more committed backers of SC and CIG themselves?

I tried that with posting update notes, my hope was people would talk about the NOTES and go on with talks from there but alas, a few pages back but was immediately hassled and basically told to get out.

 

[LeSabre]

No it wasn't extreme it was like posts from the last five minutes which should give you an idea of what I am saying, this thread is join the club or and we will find petty reason to report your posts.

Dude, seriously. It's not "join the club" it's a group of people who each using the information available from CIG, access to the 'alpha?' and their own judgement have come to similar conclusions and now share those conclusions with all who read this forum.

You have a different outlook, you are where I was about 3 years ago when I asked CIG the question "So, how exactly do you intend to have these different gametypes interacting with each other and coexisting in realtime with large player numbers and heavy server load with backend simulation of market/trades and other player activity such as mining and dogfighting?" and the answer I got was "Arena Commander is really coming along, there's a ship sale coming soon, be sure to check it out!" Straightforward question answered with nonsense and a sales pitch. From that moment, I knew what SC was, it's not a game its a money pit.

 

[Dr Wookie]

This is what I mean by superdev or armchair dev. You have hardly any facts, you don't have access to what is going on in the company but hey you guys just think really hard and look in your crystal balls and come up with ideas that right now its only a "tech demo".

Hey its okay though cause you all know and have access to CIG accounting and know for a fact they have no money and have spent it all and are just running on vapors...oh wait I forgot dsmart said so...it must be true then.

[wacko]

This thread may have started as something else but it has since devolved into lets all hold hands and bash and hate on SC. Can you really deny it?

Hi Space Dandy,
I am asking this without malice or alterior motive: what do you think is praiseworthy about SC so far? I would love to read something good that they have done .

Personally, I think that some of the art is top-tier, although it tends to look better in still images than in motion. I also like the basic treatment of EVA activity, even if it doesn't quite work as intended yet. I don't consider the immense amount of money raised by CIG praiseworthy, since I think that inflation of budget and scope is one of the major problems with the game, but I have to respect it.

 

[Space Dandy]

.... Huh?

Are you feeling quite ok there Dandy?

Also, can you discuss Star Citizen, or are you more interested in deflecting and obsfucating the fact that there is, quite literally *nothing* to really discuss about the game, outside of the wild theorycrafting that is going on both within the more committed backers of SC and CIG themselves?

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Really now?

Because I've only seen you post on here fairly recently and all the posts I've seen from yourself regarding Star Citizen have been, erm, rather positive, to say the least.

In fact, not a word that is remotely considered "critical" or at least asking pertinent questions regarding why CIG seem to always miss their own self-appointed deadlines by a wide margin repeatedly, and stuff like that...

Maybe you should go back and read better. This is my main point though, it seems clear that anyone that tries to be positive about SC is ridiculed and shown the door. This thread should be renames the "BE critical of SC thread".

Might be less confusing for those just stepping in and we could all avoid drama.

Hell they could even make two SC threads, lets call one the "be critical thread" and the other one the "be positive thread".

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

I tried that with posting update notes, my hope was people would talk about the NOTES and go on with talks from there but alas, a few pages back but was immediately hassled and basically told to get out.

No, that's actually not what happened.

Rolan did what he usually does, posted the AtV and the tl;dr of that, plus the developer notes on bug fixes (*pfffft!*) and the like.

Then you waded in with the same posts, except unlike Rolan, who had kindly placed them behind a "Spoilers" tag to keep his comment from taking up too much space, you didn't do the same. A couple of thread regulars pointed that out to you (quite calmly I might add, with none of them telling you to "get out" as you claim) and you got testy with them, before making the amendments to your post.

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Maybe you should go back and read better. This is my main point though, it seems clear that anyone that tries to be positive about SC is ridiculed and shown the door. This thread should be renames the "BE critical of SC thread".

Might be less confusing for those just stepping in and we could all avoid drama.

Hell they could even make two SC threads, lets call one the "be critical thread" and the other one the "be positive thread".

Well, here you are then Space Dandy!

The floor is all yours.

Please tell the folks here (many of them people who have personally backed the game with their own money and honestly wish for it to succeed, much like you do), the positives that you can see in Star Citizen!


No pressure.

 

[Tippis]

This is my main point though, it seems clear that anyone that tries to be positive about SC is ridiculed and shown the door.

…except that that doesn't actually happen. That's just you playing the same victim card you recently told others not to employ.

Hell they could even make two SC threads, lets call one the "be critical thread" and the other one the "be positive thread".

Have you tried being positive in this thread? People have been asking you all kinds of questions that you could have responded positively to, but you chose not to, for some reason…

 

[Dogeh]

It is hilarious but it seems clear to me the people in this thread are clearly leaning in the dsmart side.

It's the only place on the Internet where you can express your SC views freely.
Anywhere else brings out the brigaders and the faithful.

In fact, most people here are quite balanced in their views.

 

[dsmart]

This.

No we can't see any of whats going on in the company (so much for open development). But we can all see what's going in (if we believe GIGs own figures), and we can all see what's coming out. We can also see how long it is taking. There are many actual software developers telling anyone who will listen, how bad this project is looking and if any one is interested in my opinion (I am also a software developer), I think it's looking pretty dire. Even more worrying, we have professional project managers saying the same thing. We are not 'arm chair developers' we are professionals and these are informed opinions.

Precisely.

And I will go one step further. Long before I read their Summer dev update and I wrote that first blog in July 2015, other devs were already raising the alarm. As I have written, it is some of those discussions that led me to take a closer look. Doing so took me to that specific report. That led to my conclusion that, as pitched, the game could never be made. And even if that were possible, that it couldn't even be done for less than $150m - all things (including experienced team, engine etc) considered.

At the time (July 2015), they had already blown past the Nov 2014 release date. Yet, despite my saying it was all messed up, nobody thought that we'd be here - 18 months + $142m later - having the same discussions instead of playing two complete games promised.

We don't need to be inside the company to know what's going on. And even what sources have said to the media now has even more credibility given where we are today.

Star Marine being necroed, regional server instances in 2.6.1 via LumberYard's AWS implementation etc, are all attempts to check off barebones promises to backers in order to mitigate the damaging fallout that's coming.

I don't care what anyone says, there's never going to be the game promised. Even SQ42 is now moreso a doubt than ever before. And if the recent sales reports for COD:IW, and Activision own statements are any indication, I am sure that CIG now realizes that there is simply no way to make money on SQ42 beyond the backers who were already entitled to it. In fact, when you look at all they did in 2016, it's easy to see that they clearly had no clue which of the two products to focus on. They didn't achieve anything in 2016 that propelled either game forward. And Star Marine is just a joke, in the general scheme of things; and it's clear why they resurrected it in the final moments of 2016 when they knew they had nothing but more tech demos to showcase.

 

[Space Dandy]

Hi Space Dandy,
I am asking this without malice or alterior motive: what do you think is praiseworthy about SC so far? I would love to read something good that they have done .

Personally, I think that some of the art is top-tier, although it tends to look better in still images than in motion. I also like the basic treatment of EVA activity, even if it doesn't quite work as intended yet. I don't consider the immense amount of money raised by CIG praiseworthy, since I think that inflation of budget and scope is one of the major problems with the game, but I have to respect it.

Pretty much, I like what you have mentioned. The game just LOOKS good and the eva stuff is really good. I would say I think the fps portion is not bad but I'm and not really a fps gamer so I am sure there's stuff in there that needs lots of work still. One thing I also like is how areas don't feel "empty", trying hard not to compare to ED with this btw. I think its a good plan to go with some handcrafted area and not just procedurally generated "space".

I also think they need to stop with ship sales and get off their backsides and get atleast squadron 42 completed asap.

Overall I think it's the scope of what they're trying to do that is praiseworthy, I just hope they get it together before they really do go down the toilet.

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It's the only place on the Internet where you can express your SC views freely.
Anywhere else brings out the brigaders and the faithful.

In fact, most people here are quite balanced in their views.

I have found you can get a fairly balanced, in view or pro vs con posts, in the mmorpg forum as long as you can keep the snark out of your posts. I say this as there are many report post trolls there.

 

[AJW]

Citizen: "Hi, I want to talk about Project SpaceThing"

Gamer: "What's that?"

Citizen: "It's a fantastic new Space MMO Thing, under development."

Gamer: "Oh yeah? Sounds interesting. When will it be out?"

Citizen: "We don't know. Developing games is difficult and costs money."

Gamer: "Okay. So how much money?"

Citizen: "We don't know. They've raised $140 million so far."

Gamer: "Wow. And we don't know how much more money they will need?"

Citizen: "No. But it's going to be good when it's done."

Gamer: "But we don't know when that will be?"

Citizen: "No. But it's going to be good when it's done."

Gamer: "What exactly is going to be in it?

Citizen: "Lots of cool stuff. They are still adding new stuff, so we won't know what's in it until it's done."

Gamer: "Come and see me again when it's done then..."

 

[Insignificant_The_Galaxy_Cat]

Pretty much, I like what you have mentioned. The game just LOOKS good and the eva stuff is really good. I would say I think the fps portion is not bad but I'm and not really a fps gamer so I am sure there's stuff in there that needs lots of work still. One thing I also like is how areas don't feel "empty", trying hard not to compare to ED with this btw. I think its a good plan to go with some handcrafted area and not just procedurally generated "space".

I also think they need to stop with ship sales and get off their backsides and get atleast squadron 42 completed asap.

Overall I think it's the scope of what they're trying to do that is praiseworthy, I just hope they get it together before they really do go down the toilet.

See? That wasn't so hard was it?

Could have saved ourselves a page or two of senseless mudslinging if you'd just said that in the first place Dandy.

 

[frostypaw]

One thing I also like is how areas don't feel "empty", trying hard not to compare to ED with this btw.

Curious what you mean by areas in this context? Comparing is fine (I think!) it's when folk got off on a tangent about it to grind axes that causes all the problems. They're both space games - it's only natural people will have different preferences about how each works.

 

[dsmart]

Well, thats how it goes. Someone really doesn't like criticism of Star Citizen, refuses to discuss the game or answer questions, repeatedly attacks random people here and then complains about being unfairly reported by mysterious forces. When pointed out he responds "no, you are stupid!". I think we've been down this road before. As Space Dandy clearly has no interest in any genuine discussion about the game I dont see why I should further indulge him. if he believes the game is running fine, more power to him. If he wants to just hurl insults, I've got better things to do.

So, anything interesting happening in the development of SC?

It's just par for the course. When you consider that I have been banned three (no, I am not trying to break Orlando's record) times for posting social media links, which is frowned upon here as doxxing, the argument that we're anti-SC falls apart.

Do I even need to mention that they have an entire hate-Reddit for attacking not only me, but also the mods here? That's the hilarious double standard at play.

They can't defend the game because it's indefensible to most sensible people. And even when you point out issues, they see it as an attack, instead of an objective opinion.

 

[Space Dandy]

Curious what you mean by areas in this context? Comparing is fine (I think!) it's when folk got off on a tangent about it to grind axes that causes all the problems. They're both space games - it's only natural people will have different preferences about how each works.

I mean space itself mostly, I can't help but feel that procedural generation of space isn't good if there's are no handcrafted areas to interact with. It makes things seem very samey and makes space feel empty. Not sure I am putting this in words properly to express what I mean...

Ofc course there not lots of space in SC to start with right now but I feel that maybe less space is better than a huge amount, you will not see much of, is better as details or what there is will be less bland.

 

[dsmart]

Pretty much, I like what you have mentioned. The game just LOOKS good and the eva stuff is really good. I would say I think the fps portion is not bad but I'm and not really a fps gamer so I am sure there's stuff in there that needs lots of work still. One thing I also like is how areas don't feel "empty", trying hard not to compare to ED with this btw. I think its a good plan to go with some handcrafted area and not just procedurally generated "space".

I also think they need to stop with ship sales and get off their backsides and get atleast squadron 42 completed asap.

Overall I think it's the scope of what they're trying to do that is praiseworthy, I just hope they get it together before they really do go down the toilet.

Where do you think the money to fund this to completion is going to come from if they stop ship sales. Especially when it now looks like a 2020 release - if they survive 2017?

 

[Space Dandy]

Where do you think the money to fund this to completion is going to come from if they stop ship sales. Especially when it now looks like a 2020 release - if they survive 2017?

Same place as most other games that keep persisting. Further sales.

I mean if they can get squadron 42 out the door I am sure there plenty of space game fans will buy, speaking of those that haven't pledged/ bought or had a monetary interaction with CIG yet. Which I am sure there are plenty due to them being wary due to the drama surround SC.

 

[LeSabre]

I mean space itself mostly, I can't help but feel that procedural generation of space isn't good if there's are no handcrafted areas to interact with. It makes things seem very samey and makes space feel empty. Not sure I am putting this in words properly to express what I mean...

Ofc course there not lots of space in SC to start with right now but I feel that maybe less space is better than a huge amount, you will not see much of, is better as details or what there is will be less bland.

Space should feel empty though surely? Space (in any context) is by definition a lack of things or an empty area.

I think if they put too many handcrafted or otherwise generated things into the 'space' part of a game then it would become just like any other arena shooter, just with a futuristic (mops not included) flavour and there's a bunch of games that already do that very well. Would also render meaningfull exploration totally redundant when coupled with the low number of (>100) systems to visit.

 

[Space Dandy]

Space should feel empty though surely? Space (in any context) is by definition a lack of things or an empty area.

I think if they put too many handcrafted or otherwise generated things into the 'space' part of a game then it would become just like any other arena shooter, just with a futuristic (mops not included) flavour and there's a bunch of games that already do that very well. Would also render meaningfull exploration totally redundant when coupled with the low number of (>100) systems to visit.

Right BUT do you want to fly around for hours to see nothing, would this be good "gameplay"?

It goes for planets too. I mean sure not every planet should have bases or alien civilizations or ruins etc but how boring when the only difference from one rock to another that it's called bdth2 and the next one is called bdth3.

 

[Asp Explorer]

As an explorer - I fly for hours seeing nothing, just to see if there is something there I can explore, and if after hours of seeing nothing, I know there is nothing to find there, so I know I can head somewhere else to look for something, because I have explored where I am.