Gunner = Arcade Action Cam for the 12 yr olds?

[BurnyBurns]

Gunner = Arcade Action Cam for the 12 yr olds?

The title being intentionally imflammatory aside: When somebody feels the need to try to discredit something with any form of associating whatever it is they want to discredit with children, in order to suggest that grown ups would shun the respective thing...

...I assume it reflects negatively on how grown up the respective person actually is. I'm not talking about age here, mind you.


As for external "gun camera": I'll happily use it. Same for the external camera, if just for leisurely fly-bys. Actual combat without HUD is pretty much a no go after after all. The way the gun camera is implemented makes a hell of a lot of sens. The gunner gets a satisfying view of things, independently from how poorly the helm drives the ship. Both can gai nfrom communicating targets, which is finally some sensible coop-mechanic in the game.

 

[Muetdhiver]

Just funny that a lot of people that saying that immersion is ruining there fun and to leave the MC implimentation alone in the name of quick mulitplayer action - when there is none. This feature offers them basically nothing, but does spell out some very worrying signs when it comes to the future of Elite Dangerous and its first person game play focus. I can't see either side of this debate using this feature more than a handful of times, afterwhich all we're left with is all the bad points the feature introduces and license for FDEV to use similar implimentation in future content releases.

Well, I am forced to say I kind of agree here.

But it would be rather easy to add a "Ship recall" option like in the SRV when doing MC to allow a MC => wings transition.
Toss in an "immersion timer (R)" so that everyone is happy and voilà !

 

[AceFlares]

Or maybe they actually believe this is the best way to do it?

Tbh they need crew to actually do something, and imho the 3rd person turret was the easiest to implement and ship asap. Simple as that.

Imagine cameras on top and bottom of the ship. You sit inside, looking a at a head down view screen, or helmet with a HUD and can see the action from there. The turrets shoot what you tell them to shoot. When targets pass out of view, you switch cameras to reacquire the target. I feel that would have been more in keeping with the style of the game. The showcased view was too much like EvE or any of the plethora of 3rd person spaceship games out there. Elite is different because it puts the player inside the ship and no matter whether anyone agrees with the supercruise mechanics or flight model in general, the player view should, I feel, stay as the crew looking out into space from within the confines of a cockpit.

 

[Ziljan]

Just funny that a lot of people that saying that immersion is ruining there fun and to leave the MC implimentation alone in the name of quick mulitplayer action - when there is none. This feature offers them basically nothing, but does spell out some very worrying signs when it comes to the future of Elite Dangerous and its first person game play focus. I can't see either side of this debate using this feature more than a handful of times, afterwhich all we're left with is all the bad points the feature introduces and license for FDEV to use similar implimentation in future content releases.

Yup. I am not sure how many times I will even use Multicrew in the current implementation. I do love SLFs though, and not having to worry about the mothership for once would be a nice break. Beyond that though, I don't see any immediate need for it, especially given that NPCs don't need any more weaknesses vs players.

 

[Red Anders]

@red anders... yes, the chattering masses, bless them. I doubt if i will play multicrew because i havent got any friends. Still not done ship borne fighters or SRVs. Might make an avatar for myself which i think will twke 5 minutes out of my life at most. But hugely mpressed by what the devs have come up with. They were really having fun last night on the videocast. And if its good for the game then its good enough for me. The rest of the negative nancies can . Unless i am in need of some amusement when i can do a little gentle stirring. Unfortunately they are a little too easy to wind up. A bit like seal clubbing.....

I just can't get a handle on this mentality where every aspect of every feature has people screaming about how it will completely ruin their experience and they will never play the game again because the turret has 360 degree vision or the hair isn't long enough.

I mean is this how these people react when every single thing in their day doesn't go exactly according to plan? Have they never had to make a compromise in their lives before?

On top of that, I've played maybe five games since 1982 that I though were perfect in every way, so is this lack of a game that plays like the devs peered into their subconscious and created their heart's true desire really such a new experience for people that it provokes such an outpouring of grief?

 

[Winterwalker]

I suspect they tried more than one way of implementing the gunner seat, and this was the easiest and most workable that didn't induce nausea. Or maybe it was just the most cinematic? Idk. If you have better solutions, maybe you can voice them? I bet they have some working code ready somewhere with other versions. Probably too late for that though, unless there was a clearly superior requested option that gained steam?

Have a look at the gunner view from the stream. All you'd need to do would be drop the mothership from the view rendered and Robert's your Mother's Brother it's a 'turret view' (It may be a toggle, show ship/ don't, ultimately, in which case maybe the ship might ideally be represented as a hologram in the view, Mosfoot's solution) But the stabilised image, in the view they've built, is MASSIVE. (aka. very, very good) It even tracks around the ship HA! (Release 2.3 NAOW! I want!!)

 

[CylonSurfer]

Yup. I am not sure how many times I will even use Multicrew in the current implementation. I do love SLFs though, and not having to worry about the mothership for once would be a nice break. Beyond that though, I don't see any immediate need for it, especially given that NPCs don't need any more weaknesses vs players.

Ditto - The SLF role is the only one I'd be interested in due to the turret implimentation being so poor. That said, I would have to think to myself "Would I not be more effective winged up with this guy and helping in my Vulture than MC'd and in this SLF?"

 

[Sugarat]

Thread TLDR.. but..

I really liked the turret cam approach.. looked much more fun than the SC approach (not knocking SC btw)..

.. MC is a feature that can be built on, as hinted at in the stream, colour me impressed

 

[Bobbydylan]

If you watch any SC multicrew video, you'll spot the reason why Frontier went this route immediately. Attached turret cam views for passengers SUCK. Being passively rotated while trying to spin your turret in 3D? Too many rotating axes for the inner ear to keep up with. To complicate things even further, many players use VR.

In order to keep the dramamine budget reasonable, they opted for a detached camera view for multicrew members. It's that's simple.

Not really. Battlefield games have turrets that move independently of the ship (chopper /tank).

 

[AceFlares]

Not really. Battlefield games have turrets that move independently of the ship (chopper /tank).

Yep, and despite the arcade flight and driving of the Battlefield games, performing as a crew and the use of those independent camera views is very effective, and immersive. Especially if the crew is actually on comms together...

 

[zackmck]

The game would have you believe that a docking computer should weigh about a ton and displace a slot for a two-ton module. Just a docking computer. There's actual bits of lore that might justify this, but again, I don't think I really want to leave it up to a module.

BTW how cool would it be to replace the docking computer with an 'advanced computer system' module with slots like an SRV or hanger? ANd put in stuff beyond docking computers?

Great idea. Would offer a new in-game market for Software. "Dock-My-Ship V1.0" would occasionally hit the wall "Target-O-Bot V1.0" won't hit all the targets ... Thinking of System Shock like stuff here.
And another MC role comes to my mind. A Hacker, who tries to access enemy ships computer to temporary disable shield or weapons or opens the cargo bays. On the other side a Counter-Hacker could prevent such an attempt.

 

[Bobbydylan]

Tbh they need crew to actually do something, and imho the 3rd person turret was the easiest to implement and ship asap. Simple as that.

Pretty much my impression of the whole Multi-pew update. Something quick and dirty to tick off the checklist and hopefully make up some lost time last year.

 

[AceFlares]

Pretty much my impression of the whole Multi-pew update. Something quick and dirty to tick off the checklist and hopefully make up some lost time last year.

It's obvious to most of us.. FD is a comparatively small dev team with a smaller budget than some others, so being the empathetic type, cockups are more forgivable from my point of view. However, I was still astonished when I flicked through the recorded livestream and saw the turret view. I hope it really is just a placeholder. :/

 

[CylonSurfer]

Yep, and despite the arcade flight and driving of the Battlefield games, performing as a crew and the use of those independent camera views is very effective, and immersive. Especially if the crew is actually on comms together...

Yup. The BF games have being doing multicrew right since the very first game 15 years ago, particularly the multicrew Bomber in the original 1942. An implimentation which imo would have lent itself well to this game and added cooperative gameplay with the pilot and turrent operatives communicating enemy positions to ensure their survival.

Pretty much my impression of the whole Multi-pew update. Something quick and dirty to tick off the checklist and hopefully make up some lost time last year.

It is painfully obvious. Which makes me ask myself the question - will I pre-pay for season 3 based on how season 2 content was delivered. I doubt I will to be honest as the quality of seasons 2 features (other than moon landings) has been poor at best. If enough people are driven to not pre-paying for the season packs - where does that leave seasons when there is a clearly a need for FDEV to accumulate at least some of the development costs through customers pre-paying for them...

 

[lysan]

I suspect they tried more than one way of implementing the gunner seat, and this was the easiest and most workable that didn't induce nausea. Or maybe it was just the most cinematic? Idk. If you have better solutions, maybe you can voice them? I bet they have some working code ready somewhere with other versions. Probably too late for that though, unless there was a clearly superior requested option that gained steam?

To change it would require a total new setup and I simply don't believe they want to go down that route.

however I would make it like the turret in the SRV. You select a turret from a weapon overview panel and you see from that point of view.
all turrets are automatic, but you can change between turrets to get the manual sight up.

The sphere in the concept art actually represents it very well.

it could also be made with a graphical representation so you avoid the nausea, however it would require some serious coding i guess.
all in all, from an engineering design point of view this is not a huge problem to find a solution for.

 

[Bobbydylan]

Great idea. Would offer a new in-game market for Software. "Dock-My-Ship V1.0" would occasionally hit the wall "Target-O-Bot V1.0" won't hit all the targets ... Thinking of System Shock like stuff here.
And another MC role comes to my mind. A Hacker, who tries to access enemy ships computer to temporary disable shield or weapons or opens the cargo bays. On the other side a Counter-Hacker could prevent such an attempt.

I can only hope that with Space Legs (If space legs ever happen) will bring a more robust physical crew mechanic.

 

[Muetdhiver]

I can only hope that with Space Legs (If space legs ever happen) will bring a more robust physical crew mechanic.

Like running in ship corridors while pulling 15g battle manœuvres ?

"quick, get to that turret" => splat => "is that soup my gunner ?" lol.

 

[CylonSurfer]

I can only hope that with Space Legs (If space legs ever happen) will bring a more robust physical crew mechanic.

At this stage I have doubts that space legs will be first person based at all. Quality first person gameplay is clearly too costly and time consuming for this team.

 

[lysan]

At this stage I have doubts that space legs will be first person based at all. Quality first person gameplay is clearly too costly and time consuming for this team.

I could also fear that, but lets see....

 

[Bobbydylan]

At this stage I have doubts that space legs will be first person based at all. Quality first person gameplay is clearly too costly and time consuming for this team.

Which is ironic, because the team that is making hellion is undoubtedly smaller and more poorly funded, and that game looks amazing.

Like running in ship corridors while pulling 15g battle manœuvres ?

"quick, get to that turret" => splat => "is that soup my gunner ?" lol.

Actually... yeah, I'd hope so. Much like the expanse books (the tv show is inferior) being out of a crash-couch during hard G manoeuvring should risk player injury and death. The exception is, obviously, Super Cruise.