Gunner = Arcade Action Cam for the 12 yr olds?

[lysan]

Compare this

https://gfycat.com/FantasticHugeBrontosaurus


To that

[video=youtube;Hov7k45dh-M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hov7k45dh-M[/video]

 

[xzanfr]

Frontier please reuse the limpet asset as a drone that matches the gunners movement around the ship. Let's call it the "camera limpet" for now.

Make it a sub system

Make it targetable and let us destroy it to jam the turret view for 20-30 seconds.

The ship can then refire the camera limpet automativally at no cost or without any need to carry actual limpets.

Add digitisation/ degradation / quirks to the gunners view to give the impression that they are looking through a camera or sensor.

Great idea.
Give the attacked ship a chance to disable / make life harder for the gunner until a new drone is released (like a special type of chaff for gunners).

 

[CylonSurfer]

And it is. The gunner is not flying the ship, is he now ?

The game was makerted as a first person experience - that is the essence of that quote. You are just bringing up pointless semantics. I purchased this game as did many others due to it being a first person focused game. That focus has been lost, people are not going to be happy, understandably so.

 

[CMDR Ofan]

You know, I would love if they built on that.

- Sensor rating equals sensor size X cameras in each facing.
- Missile damage on hull can damage cameras
- Loosing a facing means becoming "blind" when turning a turret in that direction
- having a larger sensor means more cameras in each direction that can see even if one is destroyed.

This would also make me accept that a sensor package of S8 at 40 tonnes have an explanation to the difference in weight when they function just as well as a S1.

It would be nice detail but the system would be abused. Basically rendering all ships useless with a few well placed missiles. I think we are limited by our own tech when we discuss this, I notice we refer to "camera" a lot in this thread. In the far flung future you have to assume that as we can map a system using sensor data we can map a bubble of space 10km around our ship and VR that to our commanders.

I'd be happy enough with sensor damage/desrtuction basically turning player controlled turrets into permachaffed gimbals though, forcing a multicrew ship to withdraw and repair.

 

[Muetdhiver]

Great idea.
Give the attacked ship a chance to disable / make life harder for the gunner until a new drone is released (like a special type of chaff for gunners).

It makes no sense. Why needing a drone when you got VR for a virtual rendering of the ship ?
This is all this is : a virtual representation of the ship from an outside view. Finally my 64 tons of sensors
are put to work to construct this. IMO sensors dead => no gunner view, simple.

Stop trying to tie things into a pretzel, this is getting so wired. Like aged techophobe discutions about these
"new smartphone youngster non sense !".

 

[AceFlares]

The reason for the 3rd-person camera view in combat sims is to compensate for the very restricted field of view and responsiveness of that field of view when in front of a flat monitor. It helps restore the kind of flexibility of view that a real pilot has from a real cockpit. Those lucky enough to have a headtracker or VR have a slightly better field of view, but still nothing like reality. The in-cockpit displays also help the situational awareness of the pilot, but in different ways. Using either in-cockpit or out-of-cockpit views will carry both advantages and disadvantages.

Visual combat is more of a game thing than a reality thing anyway, so it's down to whatever makes it more fun.

Incidentally, those arguing against the gunnery cams appear to have little knowledge of what augmented reality is already bringing to advanced, 21st-century weaponry.

Thanks for the explanation. Although I personally didn't need it I've "flown" sims since Flight Simulation on the ZX Spectrum right up to DCS World/FC3. Third person views are cool, it's sweet dropping a salvo of MK82s, switching to outside view and watching them strike. It does also help with situational awareness because of the 2d screen you're correct. Knowledge of what augmented reality is available simply requires a Google search or spend too much time watching National Geographic. Less patronisation please. Thanks.

 

[CMDR Ofan]

I disagree. I think the limitations of those systems would actually be beneficial to the game. Right now, gunning is simply about pointing in the vague direction of the other ship and clicking Mouse 1. Requiring cohesion between pilot and gunner would make multi-pew a tiny bit more team-work oriented.

But then you have a system less effective than computer operated turrets, meaning a reduction in performance compared to a single commander piloting a ship, that makes no real sense from a game design view, surely?

 

[CmdrChorusLindarr]

It won't work. You can't have a fixed FP view for turrets when they are dotted all over the ship, It's not like an SRV turret where it is one emplacement in one place, there could be 3 turrets spread a hundred metres apart! Only way it would work is a view external to the ship, disembodied from the CMDRs head.

It makes me loose a little faith in humanity that people so concerned with a FP view cannot visualise this in FP and how it would not work

Thank you... some sense and rationality emerges in this thread.

 

[CMDR Ofan]

****phone went mad sorry guys****

Can a mod delete?

 

[lysan]

Thanks for the explanation. Although I personally didn't need it I've "flown" sims since Flight Simulation on the ZX Spectrum right up to DCS World/FC3. Third person views are cool, it's sweet dropping a salvo of MK82s, switching to outside view and watching them strike. It does also help with situational awareness because of the 2d screen you're correct. Knowledge of what augmented reality is available simply requires a Google search or too spend too much time watching National Geographic. Less patronisation please. Thanks.

When playing all the mentioned flight sims, you can't fight in 3rdv, it's only there to give you eye candy nothing else.
You can use it to situation awareness for sure, but it can also get you killed in a split of a second if you spend too much time "outside" the airplane.

 

[Earthshine]

Great idea.
Give the attacked ship a chance to disable / make life harder for the gunner until a new drone is released (like a special type of chaff for gunners).

I think it's a horrible idea I'm afraid.

Pros:
- Believable by 21st century standards (is this a pro really?!)
- Some potential gameplay in PvP, knock out the gunner stuff

Cons/Concerns:
- Might look stupid externally
- How will it remain steady?
- How tough will it be? If it's a tiny thing then will be tough to believe it can survive more than a couple of hits
- How easy to target? If it's tiny and/or hard to lock onto then it'll just be downright annoying to destroy (Moving about etc etc)

Seems like minimal benefits for the effort and downsides, at least from my (third person ) perspective!

 

[Winterwalker]

Finally my 64 tons of sensors are put to work to construct this.

IMO sensors dead => no gunner view, simple.

I like. +1 this

 

[BurnyBurns]

Arma, IL-2, DCS, BF + many more.

All of which laugh down at Elite in terms of realism. Yes, even Battlefield. All of which model to various degrees of simulation or arcadyness actually existing crafts without a central gunner control? Or is there a fantasy spaceship game hidden in the "many more"? If it's Star Citizen, then that's rather hard to compare, as they essentially go for WW2 grade turret control by the looks of it (but you know that full well, I believe). One person per turret, only direct turret control. If they can eventually get enough people in an instance to man their spaceships, that is.

 

[Goose4291]

I can guarantee with almost 100% certainty that a lot of these "360 lock on, its amazing" posters will change their tune at their first meeting with a SDC crewed cutter with 7 engineered packhounds.

 

[AceFlares]

The game was makerted as a first person experience - that is the essence of that quote. You are just bringing up pointless semantics. I purchased this game as did many others due to it being a first person focused game. That focus has been lost, people are not going to be happy, understandably so.

Semantics, theorising about future turret control and whatever else put to one side. This is essentially the issue.

 

[Fishy]

Incidentally, those arguing against the gunnery cams appear to have little knowledge of what augmented reality is already bringing to advanced, 21st-century weaponry.

It's going to be a long list if we're to list all 21st century technology that got lost on the way to 3300. Thankfully, that has nothing to do with it, just with it being massively inconsistent with ED's 33XX design and weaponry. Why am I sitting in a stupidly fragile glass bubble when I could be safely tucked inside with a gunnery cam again?

At the end of the day, there's no lore explanation that will cut it. It's stupidly nonsensical considering how limited the in-universe technology is. Just like instant multi-crew, it's a game feature, let's leave it at that. No lore is better than bad lore.

 

[CmdrChorusLindarr]

I disagree. I think the limitations of those systems would actually be beneficial to the game. Right now, gunning is simply about pointing in the vague direction of the other ship and clicking Mouse 1. Requiring cohesion between pilot and gunner would make multi-pew a tiny bit more team-work oriented.

What else can a gunner role essentially be other than simply point an aiming reticule in a particular direction and pressing fire?!?! [weird]

The gunner's only interaction with the game in his multi-crew role is to shoot. He has no control over the ship and so creating needless restrictions on his perspective and vision by have FP turret cameras that he has to swap through, sounds like a ridiculous, clunky and unwieldy solution.

If you listened to FDev's design intent for multi-crew, it is about players coming together and having FUN. The gunner role is already limited enough, without the frankly quite silly and unworkable solutions you suggest. Rendering the gunner role with a camera perspective that would means he's able to see even less of the action than the helmsman is a terrible terrible idea.

Please, no offense, but don't ever get into game's design.

 

[BurnyBurns]

I can guarantee with almost 100% certainty that a lot of these "360 lock on, its amazing" posters will change their tune at their first meeting with a SDC crewed cutter with 7 engineered packhounds.

Your true motiviation then is actually just fear of getting your behind round-house kicked by better PvP players than you? That's why Frontier should preemptively gimp any game features that might bring anything for combat players?

What are you actually afraid of there? Three players being huddled in a single ship with expanded turret and missile capabilities that sacrifice the higher dps output of fixed or gimballed weapons? While they could do a whole lot more of backside-kicking with three separate ships, non-turreted and therefore decidedly more dps heavy weapon outfit (while still sporting AI SLF)?

Great idea.
Give the attacked ship a chance to disable / make life harder for the gunner until a new drone is released (like a special type of chaff for gunners).

You know full well that it's perfectly possible to spit in the gunners' soup even as of now: Target the guns. But because people around here seem mortally afraid of combat ships getting interesting stuff, we need to clamour for all the zero sum rubbish, do we? "Yeah, ok you can have that. But gimp it so hard that they won't actually want to use it."

 

[CMDR Redcrest]

You said you weren't going to use it, so that doesn't affect you in any way.

Beta tester with preconceived hard boiled ideas? That'll be good.
If you don't like this feature after you've tried it can you test something else and leave the fun features to be tested by people likely to use them?
It would seem a more efficient and immersive use of your time.

Sorry wrong quote used! I was talking to the guy who said he's a beta tester and "THE VERDICT IS GOING TO BE..."
I hope he never ends up on jury service with that mind set! Lol!

Trying to read and type on a bus is a pain!

 

[AceFlares]

When playing all the mentioned flight sims, you can't fight in 3rdv, it's only there to give you eye candy nothing else.
You can use it to situation awareness for sure, but it can also get you killed in a split of a second if you spend too much time "outside" the airplane.

Yea mate I said the same a few posts back. I challenge anyone to try dogfighting in a simulated F15 3rd person vs a player in 1st person. Unless the player in cockpit view is a total moron or blind drunk you're gonna lose. Whatever augmented reality systems exist or may come to exist it doesn't matter. Using a 3rd person view to control turrets just isn't in keeping with the marketing of the game, those it was marketed to or the spirit of the game.