Gunner = Arcade Action Cam for the 12 yr olds?

[Zambrick]

Good points Sir.

But shut off your Computer and meet me at Sirius IRL. That is reality.


Immersion
Imagination
Realism

These above concepts are not necessarily mutually inclusive.

You can have a simple game, such as Poker, where we get really immersed in the gameplay because the stakes are high.
We can increase the Immersion by adding Realism, the way people act when sitting at the table, the way they move their faces and hands as they calculate their cards and situation etc etc. It gets more fun and immersive with more "depth" and detail.
Where there is no end to the depth, or in the cases where we do not know what kind of realism the developers implemented, the imagination takes form and increases the immersion by the promise of possibilities yet unknown.
Every time we imagine something and we manage to accurately predict an outcome of a situation based upon our imagination, a force feedback loop is created and the immersion becomes fantastic. WOW WHAT A GAME!

When ever imagination is rewarded, however rare occasion, an immersive environment is born.

FD has managed to understand this, and put lots and lots of secrets out there in the galaxy for us to find. However, they lack micro- and normal- detail, which is where we live out our gameplay the most. In PP, BGs, CQC etc. There could have been more detail, which rewards imagination, which occasionally builds immersion, regardless of realism.

I find Gunnery position interesting, and it allows for some very nice detail to the previous combat model. Opportunity, imagination, immersion.

I am not saying those modes are not fun, but the previous gentlemen s argument was that nobody wanted Ship transfers and when we finally got them they were ruined.
I was arguing that people did want them and that the fantastical instant transfer of said ship could and would effect nobody in the game. At best it might just might give someone at 20 to 30 minute head start on a PP action. Other than that it would do nothing.

Since this new change is happening everyone is like its breaking my immersion, its for 12 year olds, it requires no skill, and how can such magic exist surely this cant happen.

They are attempting to tie both the HoloMe and external probably drone based combat camera as something game breaking and un realistic. While those things do exist in real life today.

Meanwhile they dont question anything else they find convenient such as Galnet, Instant transfers back to last station for rebuy, refueling time, loading of cargo time, and hundreds of other things in this video "game" that defy the laws of physics and reality. They act as if FDEV has a said set of rules of which they may abide and go no further.

These very same people that are complaining now have complained about every patch or update that has come out since Season 1. Its getting really sickening at this point and maybe they need to find another game. Maybe use their imagination instead of calling immersion, consistency, and realistic every 5 seconds. Especially when this game does not in any way have any of those attributes now.

Its just their own biased negative opinion and they feel the need to come out here every time something changes and cry about it.

 

[mossfoot]

I suspect that if the gunnery cam was a bit more flashy and awesome looking like the HoloMe content, and not just a naked bare-bones 3rd person cam, then this would be a non-issue.

Yeah, some HUD changes to make it feel more like a gunnery post than an external camera with pilot HUD would have gone a long way

 

[Winterwalker]

Yeah, some HUD changes to make it feel more like a gunnery post than an external camera with pilot HUD would have gone a long way

I think that can still come but the view they have developed, is massively useful, because image stabilisation. I'd (also) like to see a full tactical HUD (maybe as an option because the cinematic, is kind of nice looking too). My feeling is starting to be that as long as you can see a working man's HUD, for hard core playing, having a fluffy one on the side doesn't hurt. If all you have is fluffy .. not so much.

 

[Zambrick]

We have ships that, if not for the artificial speed caps, could accelerate at many g until they ran out of fuel.

A trip from Sol to Sirius would not take very long at all in subjective time, for someone in a vessel that could do this. We are talking months (most of the trip would be spent at relativistic speeds where time dilation would be quite extreme), not thousands of years. Even from the perspective of someone at Sirius, it would be a few decades wait, not thousands of years.

Regardless, is never really been a realism vs. fantasy argument. It's about verisimilitude, which is critically important, even in overtly fantasy settings, assuming you don't want to delve into the surrealistic.



There is a degree of this, with the external hardpoints being highlighted...they certainly aren't glowing from other perspectives.

I certainly wouldn't mind a visual effect that made the simulation more distinct from the in-game 'reality', but I don't think it's required.

Not sure what you are talking about because your statement is contradictory and doesnt make sense. Time dilatation would only occur at near light speed and you would not be even close to reaching it. Since we know the fuel on those ships are Hydrogen based from fuel scooping, your ship would need to be hundreds of times larger than our current game star ports to carry enough fuel.

Fuel in gaseous form doesnt have the energy density. Heck to make Metallic Hydrogen or H1 and tritium (which is what I assume you are talking about) and maintain its state to release anything slower than an explosion would require an external energy source many many times more powerful than the propulsion unit on the craft. So you would need something more powerful than the hydrogen you are collecting processing and firing out of your thrusters. Makes no sense.

 

[CylonSurfer]

A first person game should have first person content. that is the be all and end all of it. Cheap mechanics like this and the SRV turret have no place in this game, the game people purchased in the safe knowledge it would never ever become third person. yesterday changed that and it needs, in my humble opinion, to be fought against. Its time to call out what ED is to become, so at the very least, those of us who purchased or backed the game under its original promise can finally decide if its time to look for something else or not. lets not waste time on this, thendevs have clearly backtracked and its reaching the point where some of us need to write it off and move on.

 

[Privata]

I am an idiot , and obsessed about immersion.
However the gunner thing does not bother me... why?

Because this is what I expected from day 1. only I expected this to have a orange filter over it so it looked more like a hologram.

Its not (to me) something that will impact immersion (however magic multiplication of money is)

True I would have prefered this to be done via a hologram with fuzzy graphics (what happened to that actualy? the HUD was ment to look old and barly working now it looks like the apex of tech , thats a lore error I guess)

However I do think multicrew is a simple addition , and wish it had more depth (such as extra management of subsystems for new components)

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A first person game should have first person content. that is the be all and end all of it. Cheap mechanics like this and the SRV turret have no place in this game, the game people purchased in the safe knowledge it would never ever become third person. yesterday changed that and it needs, in my humble opinion, to be fought against. Its time to call out what ED is to become, so at the very least, those of us who purchased or backed the game under its original promise can finally decide if its time to look for something else or not. lets not waste time on this, thendevs have clearly backtracked and its reaching the point where some of us need to write it off and move on.

I fully agree.

However SC , ArmA , CFS , XWA and many other first person games have bits in them that are third person. I think its a misstep.
But instant gratification was said to be the core idea behind this feature sadly.

So I am hoping that when we get to walk around a more in depth version will be added

 

[C3GeekyO]

To all you immersion fans.

I am going to break this to you. This POV is here to stay. They just spent the past, probably few years designing it. They are not going to take it out to satisfy you guys. Tell yourselves whatever you need to tell yourselves. But the rest of us like it. I like immersion as much as the next person, but there comes a point where it needs to be for more than just a certain group. If they had done it any other way (I promise you they tried a lot of things, before this was settled on) it would not have worked as well. How exactly will you aim 4+ turrets and not lose lock on target, and not get sick from the pilot flying the ship and controlling his weapons. It just not possible.

Sincerely,
All of us who like it.

 

[ArchEmperor]

I am not saying those modes are not fun, but the previous gentlemen s argument was that nobody wanted Ship transfers and when we finally got them they were ruined.
I was arguing that people did want them and that the fantastical instant transfer of said ship could and would effect nobody in the game. At best it might just might give someone at 20 to 30 minute head start on a PP action. Other than that it would do nothing.

Since this new change is happening everyone is like its breaking my immersion, its for 12 year olds, it requires no skill, and how can such magic exist surely this cant happen.

They are attempting to tie both the HoloMe and external probably drone based combat camera as something game breaking and un realistic. While those things do exist in real life today.

Meanwhile they dont question anything else they find convenient such as Galnet, Instant transfers back to last station for rebuy, refueling time, loading of cargo time, and hundreds of other things in this video "game" that defy the laws of physics and reality. They act as if FDEV has a said set of rules of which they may abide and go no further.

These very same people that are complaining now have complained about every patch or update that has come out since Season 1. Its getting really sickening at this point and maybe they need to find another game. Maybe use their imagination instead of calling immersion, consistency, and realistic every 5 seconds. Especially when this game does not in any way have any of those attributes now.

Its just their own biased negative opinion and they feel the need to come out here every time something changes and cry about it.

Yes!

THis is what they want:!

Spoiler

[video=youtube;T_OSeRxhGOY]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T_OSeRxhGOY[/video]

I achieved the exact same immersion just playing that music when going into combat!

 

[CylonSurfer]

To all you immersion fans.

I am going to break this to you. This POV is here to stay. They just spent the past, probably few years designing it. They are not going to take it out to satisfy you guys. Tell yourselves whatever you need to tell yourselves. But the rest of us like it. I like immersion as much as the next person, but there comes a point where it needs to be for more than just a certain group. If they had done it any other way (I promise you they tried a lot of things, before this was settled on) it would not have worked as well. How exactly will you aim 4+ turrets and not lose lock on target, and not get sick from the pilot flying the ship and controlling his weapons. It just not possible.

Sincerely,
All of us who like it.

lmao off. So cute that you think they spent time on this when its so clearly a shortcut, box ticking exercise.

Nice to see the i'll eat droppings if its free crowd out in force.

Your not possible has been done successfully in 15 year old titles.

 

[VR Mr Teatime]

I can't say that the external view gunnery thing is to my liking either, but I'm going to accept it in the knowledge that unless the pilot is in combat and forming his crew at the same time, then the inside of most ships in multi-crew on their way to a REZ will be like this:

Spoiler

[video=youtube;a8k1eTEw4rQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a8k1eTEw4rQ[/video]

 

[Zambrick]

As we can agree upon, fantastical is how much of the game operates. It's part of being Sci-Fi, it's Science Fiction. However, these fantastical mechanisms are not being applied logically and consistently, and there's the problem. Technology A is technology A after all, regardless of how, why, when are where it is applied.

If we are all using VR in-game, then how come 99% of the game seems to be designed around us not actually using any of the functionality of VR and instead just using our fancy VR goggles to simply display what the inbuilt cameras are reading. If we all have VR, then how come even military ships which are liable to get their canopies shot out and lose tactical awareness, rather than the more logical approach of displaying the information on the display we are already looking at in our headsets.

Likewise, much of the game's mechanics are based around telepresence being short range and generally quite difficult to do. If it were so easy to telepresence to anywhere in the galaxy from any ship, then why would we ever need to go anywhere in person if we could just telepresence everywhere?

I already suggested the ideal and consistent method for how to get multicrew to work in a couple of multicrew threads. A method that doesn't conflict with any current in-game technology or logic and also gives players full flexibility to crew up regardless of wherever they are. The method is to simply completely divorce multicrew from our in-game identities and make secondary player crew members simply possess existing NPC crew.

And I haven't yet seen a logical and explainable reason as to how IR thermal imaging cameras suddenly get full visible spectrum clarity.

O I do. Because my oculus rift does that right now. Its camera is just a basic high quality webcam with an IR filter on it. They have been doing that since the Wii and Kinect days. Also its a drone, can it possibly have more than one lens?

Not sure since my Phantom currently has a Super HD cam with a built in IR. I think you may want to ask Paris Hilton if such magical IR and Visible light cameras can actually exist.

Telepresence does not allow you to interact with items not tied to a computer system. So for our purposes, no at this time there really is no reason for us to be actually flying those ships. You cant take a wrench to a bolt with telepresence. You cant actually travel from point A to B without being in the ship. You know those kinds of reasons.

Besides wasnt this about the 12 year old easy mode external not possible gun reticle s? Especially when at this very moment our ships already track all ships and fire at them with turreted weapons. Maybe the wifi on the ship cant transfer that information from the pilots primary targeting system 3 feet away. More than likely they forgot about wifi or any other wireless communications in the future. Seeing as how we forgot what auto pilot was and this weird concepts of drones.

 

[akaliel]

lmao off. So cute that you think they spent time on this when its so clearly a shortcut, box ticking exercise.

Nice to see the i'll eat droppings if its free crowd out in force.

Your not possible has been done successfully in 15 year old titles.

Guess they should have hired an ace programmer such as yourself.

 

[Privata]

To all you immersion fans.

I am going to break this to you. This POV is here to stay. They just spent the past, probably few years designing it. They are not going to take it out to satisfy you guys. Tell yourselves whatever you need to tell yourselves. But the rest of us like it. I like immersion as much as the next person, but there comes a point where it needs to be for more than just a certain group. If they had done it any other way (I promise you they tried a lot of things, before this was settled on) it would not have worked as well. How exactly will you aim 4+ turrets and not lose lock on target, and not get sick from the pilot flying the ship and controlling his weapons. It just not possible.

Sincerely,
All of us who like it.

Dont put all ''immersion'' players in the same bag.
I would like something more immersive but I dont hate the idea.

Its like if I called all those who dont care/mind about immersion those who wanted the AI to be dumbed down and all that.

I backed the game based on the promise of immersion.
The gunner cam to me does not break it , but other things do.

 

[CylonSurfer]

Guess they should have hired an ace programmer such as yourself.

Maybe.. i did spend thousands of hours fixing (imo, and 22,000 people seem to agree based on downloads) Skyrim after the devs suffered from a similar third person / first person brain malfunction. So yeah, why not...if you want to be like that.

 

[Privata]

Maybe.. i did spend thousands of hours fixing (imo) Skyrim after the devs suffered from a similar third person / first person brain malfunction.

Morrowind had third person , and daggerfall had tones of bugs (more than skyrim) and arena would not even work for most players at the time.

 

[akaliel]

Maybe.. i did spend thousands of hours fixing (imo, and 22,000 people seem to agree based on downloads) Skyrim after the devs suffered from a similar third person / first person brain malfunction. So yeah, why not...if you want to be like that.

I'm sure it's the exact same thing. I've only been programming for a living the last 20 years. But if you made a skyrim mod, that's definitely transferable to any project.

 

[CylonSurfer]

Morrowind had third person , and daggerfall had tones of bugs (more than skyrim) and arena would not even work for most players at the time.

Yes, it did. However Skyrim suffered from the same 'we would do it in first person, but it means time' issue this feature has clealry suffered from. I have the half baked first person animations left over from the enforced third person stuff to proove it. Skyrim that is. What we have here is the same, a "shim". Third person content that was added because it was the easier, less time consuming method to tick a box and deliver content. Not because it was better for the game. That slide in quality is the sad part. The part you should all be looking at despite your opinions on this particular feature. Yet a god mode camera is enough to let quality slide and promises of a true first person space game die. Very sad.

I'm sure it's the exact same thing. I've only been programming for a living the last 20 years. But if you made a skyrim mod, that's definitely transferable to any project.

Just like your apps are multi-application products that could end world hunger right?

 

[Steve50]

It seems these days the more updates come out for ED, the less I want to play and the further the game seems to be from the original "vision" back in 2012 during the kickstarter.

Won't be long now before I click uninstall and walk away.. sorry, just my opinion.

 

[Privata]

Yes, it did. However Skyrim suffered from the same 'we would do it in first person, but it means time' issue this feature has clealry suffered from. I have the half baked first person animations left over from the enforced third person stuff to proove it. Skyrim that is. What we have here is the same, a "shim", third person content that was added because it was the easier, less time consuming method to ticka box. Not because it was better for the game. That slide in quality is the sad part.

Oh gosh ! it just hit me !
You are the same CylonSurfer from the nexus!

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I'm sure it's the exact same thing. I've only been programming for a living the last 20 years. But if you made a skyrim mod, that's definitely transferable to any project.

It depends. dont look down on modding or making games. it can (and often is) more complex than a lot of standard project.

His mod was not the simple kind.
It was nearly reverse engineering the game.

I am not trying to diss your work of course but modding is hard and takes a lot of effort.
My mods have more effort and work put in them than my ''official'' job.

Programming is a fluid term and can mean anything from making text apear at the press of a button to simulating a real time evolution of the galaxy

 

[CylonSurfer]

Oh gosh ! it just hit me !
You are the same CylonSurfer from the nexus!

- - - Updated - - -


It depends. dont look down on modding or making games. it can (and often is) more complex than a lot of standard project.

His mod was not the simple kind.
It was nearly reverse engineering the game.

I am not trying to diss your work of course but modding is hard and takes a lot of effort.
My mods have more effort and work put in them than my ''official'' job.

Programming is a fluid term and can mean anything from making text apear at the press of a button to simulating a real time evolution of the galaxy

Indeed.

Just saw your edit, thank you. Yes due to my passion for true first person gaming I did literally reverse engineer the entire first person aspect of the game and remake it. Even when everyone else was only interested in big knockers and how to make them look good. In third person.