Gunner = Arcade Action Cam for the 12 yr olds?

I stopped paying much attention when it becomes possible to transmit interacting telepresence to a ship 50,000 LY from the bubble instantly, but it's still not possible to view commodities 5km from a station... or.. that you can telepresence 50,000 LY away, in real time, with no latency and no interference, but you're not able to upload exploration data just 10,000 LY out to a nearby station to back it up.

You stopped paying attention much earlier, otherwise you would've gotten the message about 1.2 nearly two years ago. Little reminder: Wings communicate instantly across the whole ingame galaxy. FTL in universe Teamspeak! But yeah, the telepresence thing is the last straw, yadda yadda. If we're talking consistency, we ought to have been able to phone in things for credits much earlier.
 
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I take it you're going to just ignore the part where I said I was working on something that was pretty much exactly the same as that picture I posted less than 30 minutes ago?

I dont care.

I have a BAR and a M1 Garand sitting in my Gun Safe. Doesnt mean its modern.

Just means you work on an old ship.
 

Goose4291

Banned
I dont care.

I have a BAR and a M1 Garand sitting in my Gun Safe. Doesnt mean its modern.

Just means you work on an old ship.

Does that mean the new type 45 destroyer, which has two of these mounted, is an old ship?

My point was you can't argue manned turret weapon systems are obsolete or not used today when they still clearly are by nations across the world.
 
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Need the links.

I can quote Elvis as saying. "Well I believe life on the moon is super cool. Been living here since everyone thought I was dead."

Elvis Presley
19whoever gives a crap.

Then go find them.... I was asked pages and pages ago to provide a quote from a Dev, not even by you. I did, I wasn't asked to provide a thread and I didn't. If you really want to cling onto the insane notion that these things were not said or that they were meant in a context other than what they had so clearly been written in then that's up to you. A couple of moments using Google should do the job. Provide a link or it didn't happen - that's pretty childish. I have nothing to gain at all by making stuff up, it is all there on the Internet should you want to find it, the sad part is most of it is on this very website.....so not even far to look.

I provided the quote because it was easy to do so, they are numerous and plentiful, people who have been here since the start have read this very sentiment from the developers from very early on, it was a consistent view the developers held and one fiercely backed up by the early adopters of the game in these very forums (well a huge majority until recently I'd say) that this was first person title and would stay that way. I have no idea how long you have played for or how long you have followed the game, it really doesn't matter, but the truth of the matter is that many people were led to understand this would not happen. Don't believe me just type "why isn't there a third person camera in Elite Dangerous“ into google, anything pre2016 turned into a bunch of pack hounds essentially telling people to play something else and it would never happen. This is the history, and it's easy to find should you wish too.

Thats changed. People don't like it, I can't blame them. Some do like it, good for them.

My personal view is that this signifies a huge dip in quality and an unwelcome u-turn from the devs, I'm not asking you to share that opinion. Personally I think it's worrisome and for me it will likely mean I no longer pre—purchase the expansion packs. I'll wait and see what FDEV release. I'm sure the easiest approach to space legs will be a third person camera, it's often why they are used in games which are predominantly first person, a quick fix to a problem. I wouldn't support that and I wouldn't buy it. If this were a single payment update, based on what I have seen I wouldn't buy that either, sadly I can't turn back the clock on that.
 
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You stopped paying attention much earlier, otherwise you would've gotten the message about 1.2 nearly two years ago. Little reminder: Wings communicate instantly across the whole ingame galaxy. FTL in universe Teamspeak! But yeah, the telepresence thing is the last straw, yadda yadda. If we're talking consistency, we ought to have been able to phone in things for credits much earlier.

Yeah it was those smaller QOL things that were dismissed and snubbed, but entire networks of galaxy wide communications for other stuff that made me guffaw in resignation. Would it be that hard tech wise, and lore wise etc to be able to view the commodity trade boards remotely?

plix? :)
 
Does that mean the new type 45 destroyer, which has two of these mounted, is an old ship?

My point was you can't argue manned turret weapon systems are obsolete or not used today when they still clearly are by nations across the world.

10 years old ship based off of a much older design. And they guns you showed were for sweeping decks and general purpose weapons. I am sure there are people carrying side arms and rifles on the ships as well. But I wouldnt say its the primary focus of the ship.

The 2 20mm Oerlikon cannons are the same style cannons from WW2? In fact the design of the modern one you can get put on the ship is from 1970. Yes you can put a 47 year old weapons system on a 10 year old ship.

However the 2 phalanx systems are the workhorses for ballistic weapons. Meanwhile their automatic missile tracking and launch systems complete the package. All of which requires little more than telling the targeting computer system that there might be a threat.

- - - Updated - - -

It's what I do at my desk all day! Well, strategy advisory for investment management, not the day trading nonsense [zZzZz]

Then why would you quote a single day of trading as anything of importance?

- - - Updated - - -

Then go find them.... I was asked pages and pages ago to provide a quote from a Dev, not even by you. I did, I wasn't asked to provide a thread and I didn't. If you really want to cling onto the insane notion that these things were not said or that they were meant in a context other than what they had so clearly written then that's up to you. A couple of moments using Google should do the job. Provide a link or it didn't happen - that's pretty childish. I have nothing to gain at all by making stuff up, it is all there on the Internet should you want to find it, the sad part is most of it is on this very website.....

I provided the quote because it was easy to do so, they are numerous and plentiful, people who have been here since the start have read this very sentiment from the developers from very early on, it was a consistent view the developers held and one fiercely backed up by the early adopters of the game in these very forums (well a huge majority until recently I'd say) that this was first person title and would stay that way. I have no idea how long you have played for or how long you have followed the game, it really doesn't matter, but the truth of the matter is that many people were led to understand this would not happen.

Thats changed. People don't like it, I can't blame them. Some do like it, good for them.

My personal view is that this signifies a huge dip in quality, I'm not asking you to share that opinion. Personally I think it's worrisome and for me it will likely mean I no longer pre—purchase the expansion packs. I'll wait and see what FDEV release. I'm sure the easiest approach to space legs will be a third person camera, it's often why they are used. I wouldn't support that and I wouldn't buy it. If this were a single payment update, based on what I have seen I wouldn't buy that either, sadly I can't turn back the clock on that.

The burden of proof is up to you to provide. I found nothing in my searches that support your claims.
 
I don't have to provide you with anything, you never asked me for anything in the first place. You really want to deny the recorded past, then go for it I won't stand in your way.

I mean I could say about those goats in Greece last year and the over friendliness displayed by a certain forum member here, would that be my burden to proove. Not at all. I'm sure they would gladly harbour it. Your standards are not everyone else's and I have no interest or commitment in any way to conform to them. This is easily accessible public record stuff, you want to disprove the quote I provided, go ahead or don't. I really could not care less.
 
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I don't have to provide you with anything, you never asked me for anything in the first place. You really want to deny the recorded past, then go for it I won't stand in your way.


I said it several times. Provide links or it didnt happen. You either do that or drop your line of argument. You either have proof or you dont. I found none supporting your claims. So its up to you.

If you cant provide the links then your narrative is made up of your own mind. I dont care one way or the other, but dont go spreading it as a truth.
 

Goose4291

Banned
10 years old ship based off of a much older design. And they guns you showed were for sweeping decks and general purpose weapons. I am sure there are people carrying side arms and rifles on the ships as well. But I wouldnt say its the primary focus of the ship.

The 2 20mm Oerlikon cannons are the same style cannons from WW2? In fact the design of the modern one you can get put on the ship is from 1970. Yes you can put a 47 year old weapons system on a 10 year old ship.

However the 2 phalanx systems are the workhorses for ballistic weapons. Meanwhile their automatic missile tracking and launch systems complete the package. All of which requires little more than telling the targeting computer system that there might be a threat.

Firstly a ship like that is the closest you'll get to a 'modern' design, as there's always massive gap between the naval architecture 'phase' vs. Actual building the damn things.

Secondly, the point I was making is that turreted crewed weapon systems are still used by the modern navies of today for a lot of their weapon systems and makeup a fair wedge of its supporting firepower (as they always have done) and that people arguing that such things aren't right for Elite (because 'we dont use them now') is a false line of argument.

Finally I'd just add that Phalanx or other CIWS systems arent generally considered to be a ships primary weapon systems either. As well as providing the steel wall against missiles, theyre job is the same as the turreted weapons we're discussing. To deter or shoot down fast moving aircraft.

Tl/dr: Arguing that we wont have turrets in ED because 'it'd be anachronistic and we dont have them now' is incorrect. Arguing that we wont use turrets in ED because it'd be fiddly, hard to manage or learn instead of the easier 3D model theyre using 'for gameplay reasons' makes more sense.
 
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Need the links.

I can quote Elvis as saying. "Well I believe life on the moon is super cool. Been living here since everyone thought I was dead."

Elvis Presley
19whoever gives a crap.

I don't have to provide you with anything, you never asked me for anything in the first place. You really want to deny the recorded past, then go for it I won't stand in your way.

I mean I could say about those goats in Greece last year and the over friendliness displayed by a certain forum member here, would that be my burden to proove. Not at all. I'm sure they would gladly harbour it. Your standards are not everyone else's and I have no interest or commitment in any way to conform to them. This is easily accessible public record stuff, you want to disprove the quote I provided, go ahead or don't. I really could not care less.

I said it several times. Provide links or it didnt happen. You either do that or drop your line of argument. You either have proof or you dont. I found none supporting your claims. So its up to you.

If you cant provide the links then your narrative is made up of your own mind. I dont care one way or the other, but dont go spreading it as a truth.


You two... Of for the love of.... HERE!

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=227781&viewfull=1#post227781

We absolutely think the cockpit is necessary, we are looking at some situations and methods for external views, but the primary interface is the cockpit. It is the environment in which you exist as much as the method by which you control the game.

Michael

Title of the thread: IS THE COCKPIT NECESSARY?

Sheesh!


Edit: While that wasn't the exact quote that started this debate, it's certainly close enough - the quote initially referred to IS referred to in a list of quotes provided by Tinman here:

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...who-wants-them?p=864381&viewfull=1#post864381

I went with the one he had a link to.
 
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Because this thread was singularly manipulating their stock price today... [yum]

Does it say because of the forum thread that stock prices are effected? We have no idea because nobody can prove that. However what we do know is that generally trading on Mondays is lower than the rest of the week. Couldn't be that at all could it?

I mean Exons stock is down .54 today. That must mean they are talking about Third Person drilling platforms today. Perhaps its that conversation in Exon Corp. Headquarters that guy is having in the bathroom with his buddy about the inevitability of rainbow unicorns taking over the earth.

That is how I know your specific quote for price is in any way being effected by this singular thread in a forum that nobody but members of this games community knows exists lets alone visits.
 
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You two... Of for the love of.... HERE!

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php?p=227781&viewfull=1#post227781



Title of the thread: IS THE COCKPIT NECESSARY?

Sheesh!

Already replied to that quote.

"We absolutely think the cockpit is necessary, we are looking at some situations and methods for external views, but the primary interface is the cockpit. It is the environment in which you exist as much as the method by which you control the game.

Michael"

"primary interface is the cockpit"

I stated that yes even with the addition to a probe or drone view to the ship, that all primary interface is internal to the cockpit. The pilot is not able to go into the external or drone view for combat. However his virtual buddies can. All primary functions and flying are still being done inside the ship.

He also said.

"we are looking at some situations and methods for external views"

So it looks like they found a situation and a method for external views hasnt he?
 
Does it say because of the forum thread that stock prices are effected? We have no idea because nobody can prove that. However what we do know is that generally trading on Mondays is lower than the rest of the week. Couldn't be that at all could it.

I mean Exons stock is down .54 today. That must mean they are talking about Third Person drilling platforms today. Perhaps its that conversation in Exon Corp. Headquarters that guy is having in the bathroom with his buddy about the inevitability of rainbow unicorns taking over the earth.

That is how I know your specific quote for price is in any way being effected by this singular thread in a forum that nobody but members of this games community knows exists lets alone visits.

But you do know that every time sleutelbos replied, the price went up...?

ok ok hands up, i'm just playin'.
I had way too much coffee again today. Really is time I went home!
 
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I don't do Power Play any more. I am happy for it to be in the game.

I have only ever dabbled with Arena. I am happy for it to be in the game.

If you don't like muti-crew, don't use it.
 
I said it several times. Provide links or it didnt happen. You either do that or drop your line of argument. You either have proof or you dont. I found none supporting your claims. So its up to you.

If you cant provide the links then your narrative is made up of your own mind. I dont care one way or the other, but dont go spreading it as a truth.

https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showthread.php/8589-3rd-person-view/page4

Quote ( Mike Evans Mike Evans is offline Designer- Elite: Dangerous ):



<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<
"
(Quote by someone else see source)
Half the reason to ensure any 3rd person view can't be used effectively in a combat situation is for unfairness and forcing the path of least resistance on all players undermining all our work in the cockpit.

The second and arguably more important half is that a 3rd person way to play the game runs completely counter to the experience we're trying to sell; that is you, the pilot, experiencing space flight and combat from a first person view, the most immersive way to play the game.

I do not buy for one second that treating your real life monitors as your "cockpit" windows into space is a better way to handle it unless you've actually built yourself a sidewinder cockpit in real life in which to sit within when you play the game, with monitors positioned through the canopy structure and bespoke controls dotted around to interact with.

Secondly any such approach to playing the game requires that we slap on some floaty, gamified UI on top of the view to make sure you can actually play the game in the first place with your monitor into space set up which would also obscure your view in much the same way our 3D cockpits do except it wont look as good.

Thirdly you wouldn't see each ships bespoke cockpit layout and design any more and there would be no point us working hard to make these ships feel and look real when half or more of the player base will just hide them away at the earliest opportunity.
"
>>>>>>>>>>>>>End of Quote>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>


for what its worth.

Imo its obvious ED was designed with cockpit view in mind, and I see no reason to break this with multicrew.

I dont get why 3rd person should be necessary either I ok with weapon officer controlling multiple turrets but that can be done in first person prfectly fine, just have some periscope camera on top and below the ship and available turrets slaved to that, but in the refined iteration I think a gunner cockpit should be implemented.
 
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