Captain Hindsight about Multicrew, Arena, Immersion and Gratification

[CmdrChorusLindarr]

My issue with a lot of the immersion proponents is this idea that their idea of what is "fun", i.e. meaningless delays and silly time-wasting restrictions like having to meet up to play MC, is the more legitimate version, than those who "want elite to be arcadey instant-action instant-gratification COD-like".

I mean, it's written all over the OP's post, as he's suggesting that what he and his immersion-proponent allies want should supplant the announced version of multi-crew in the game, all the while relegating the version that the "arcadey folks" would enjoy to a completely separate mode, entirely disconnected to the main game.

Can you be any more transparent OP? lol [yum]

Imho, I think the best solution is for FDev to implement an option in the game menu for those who want immersion at all costs; one that plays sends out an invite to MC buddies and then forces them all to sit and watch a timer for 40 mins before giving them access to MC play. This would be a quick and simple update for FDev to implement, and would appease those guys, since they seem to love timers so much anyway.

 

[Dommarraa]

Evan as one of the 50%, I think what FD has proposed seems eminently reasonable and sensible to me.
I gave up on the game being a Sim a long time ago. The galaxy we play in is a Sim, but the game isn't.
Would love there to be more useful things for MC to do, but our ships have been carefully designed to be operated by a single CMDR, and adding things just to make it complicated would be silly or at the least interfere with all the non MC players.

 

[Chrysophylax]

In the OP's defense, he at least made it perfectly clear that it was his opinion. It's when people think to speak for the entire community, or from an absolutist POV that I start having problems.

 

[Bobbydylan]

My issue with a lot of the immersion proponents is this idea that their idea of what is "fun", i.e. meaningless delays and silly time-wasting restrictions like having to meet up to play MC, is the more legitimate version, than those who "want elite to be arcadey instant-action instant-gratification COD-like".

.

Is meeting up to wing up a meaningless waste of time? Is travelling in ED a meaningless waste of time? Should we instead remove all space travel, and go the Naval Action route and just allow us to join battles in the station UI menu?

I don't see why instant travel should only apply to this mechanism. if it exists in the game, then it undermines the rest of game that doesn't use it at meaningless busywork.

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In the OP's defense, he at least made it perfectly clear that it was his opinion. It's when people think to speak for the entire community, or from an absolutist POV that I start having problems.

I don;t think anyone things they speak for all of us. Though there is a majority opinion which people are convinced that they are apart of.

 

[Chrysophylax]

I don;t think anyone things they speak for all of us. Though there is a majority opinion which people are convinced that they are apart of.

It amounts to the same thing, IMO. I mean, I was called a contrarian because in one thread kind of like this one, I dared post about how my views were pretty much the exact opposite of the OP's. Not only did they felt they were part of some undefined majority, they also assumed I was being contrarian for contrarianism's sake.

Kinda ticked me off.

 

[CmdrChorusLindarr]

Is meeting up to wing up a meaningless waste of time? Is travelling in ED a meaningless waste of time? Should we instead remove all space travel, and go the Naval Action route and just allow us to join battles in the station UI menu?

I don't see why instant travel should only apply to this mechanism. if it exists in the game, then it undermines the rest of game that doesn't use it at meaningless busywork.

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I don;t think anyone things they speak for all of us. Though there is a majority opinion which people are convinced that they are apart of.

Nottudisuschittoagen.jpg

And once again we get this ridiculous straw man argument...

Yay, for completely missing the point.

And to answer your question; in many ways, yes meeting up to wing is a bit of a waste of time. If FDev added the option to instantly travel to a friend to wing up, I'm 99% sure that more players would use the wing feature.

It's about convenience in order to enjoy a specific mode of play (e.g. MC). Sometimes, removing unnecessary hurdles is a good idea.

 

[Flavourless]

...When playing in the actual game I have zero interest in flying hundreds of lightyears...

But the game is Elite. It is actually about flying spaceships hundreds of light years.
If you object so much to playing the game, why are you even here?

 

[Bobbydylan]

Nottudisuschittoagen.jpg

And once again we get this ridiculous straw man argument...

Yay, for completely missing the point.

And to answer your question; in many ways, yes meeting up to wing is a bit of a waste of time. If FDev added the option to instantly travel to a friend to wing up, I'm 99% sure that more players would use the wing feature.

It's about convenience in order to enjoy a specific mode of play (e.g. MC). Sometimes, removing unnecessary hurdles is a good idea.

Sorry, if you didn't want to travel through space, why did you buy a game about space travel?

 

[Chrysophylax]

Sorry, if you didn't want to travel through space, why did you buy a game about space travel?

This is reductive. The game is different things to different people. E.g. see how some people view themselves as divided along profession lines.

I deal with the travel by simply not doing it. In that sense the game, to me, is not about space travel. Clearly it enables this sort of gameplay, so unless it's both about and not about travel...

 

[NeilF]

It is odd how CQC, which is seemingly closer to standard ED in truth, was pushed out to a different stand alone game, instead of being incorporated as missions/tasks/military service/CGs/Powerplay activities, while Mult-Crew was deemed worthly of core game status.

 

[CmdrChorusLindarr]

But the game is Elite. It is actually about flying spaceships hundreds of light years.
If you object so much to playing the game, why are you even here?

Because it's possible to enjoy playing parts of the game (e.g. combat, trading) whilst tolerating the bits you don't like?

Er... how is that even difficult to understand?

 

[Bobbydylan]

This is reductive. The game is different things to different people. E.g. see how some people view themselves as divided along profession lines.

I deal with the travel by simply not doing it. In that sense the game, to me, is not about space travel. Clearly it enables this sort of gameplay, so unless it's both about and not about travel...

Sorry, I'm not understanding that, what is the game to you about, if not space travel? It's not a mission based space combat game (ah-la Wing comander), it's not a FPS, it's not a tycoon game...

Now, I'l admit that Space travel in ED could use a little sprucing up to be made more exciting.

 

[CmdrChorusLindarr]

Sorry, if you didn't want to travel through space, why did you buy a game about space travel?

Lol, see above.

If in ED the only gameplay mechanic available was space travel and nothing else, then you'd have just made an excellent point. Given that it isn't, your reply can only be considered as being willfully obtuse.

 

[Bobbydylan]

Lol, see above.

If in ED the only gameplay mechanic available was space travel and nothing else, then you'd have just made an excellent point. Given that it isn't, your reply can only be considered as being willfully obtuse.

Neither is it just combat in the absence of space travel, you see. Just as i can't avoid combat when trading, you shouldn't be able to avoid travel to engage in combat.

 

[CmdrChorusLindarr]

Sorry, I'm not understanding that, what is the game to you about, if not space travel? It's not a mission based space combat game (ah-la Wing comander), it's not a FPS, it's not a tycoon game...

Now, I'l admit that Space travel in ED could use a little sprucing up to be made more exciting.

The Witcher 3 has the player spending copious amounts of playtime walking or travelling through the open world... does that somehow mean that the game is a walking simulator?

 

[CylonSurfer]

But the game is Elite. It is actually about flying spaceships hundreds of light years.
If you object so much to playing the game, why are you even here?

Its a very good point.

This feature also prevents other multiplayer aspects of the game like rescuing stranded planetside commanders, operating a ferry service for your friends and so on and so forth. Not every aspect is of it is pro multiplayer - far from it.

I'd honestly expect that if you played the game with friends you would be situated near them in game any way unless on a long run. I know my friends and I share the same home system and for the most part our goals are aligned.

 

[CmdrChorusLindarr]

Neither is it just combat in the absence of space travel, you see. Just as i can't avoid combat when trading, you shouldn't be able to avoid travel to engage in combat.

Well if you actually paid attention to the arguments being presented, instead of just projecting silly strawman arguments, you would have realized already that people complaining about how boring travel is in ED (and this includes yourself, given your post in this very thread) is not the same as people saying that travel should be removed from ED.

Once you get that people aren't arguing for the removal of travel, then it'll all become clear.

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Its a very good point.

This feature also prevents other multiplayer aspects of the game like rescuing stranded planetside commanders, operating a ferry service for your friends and so on and so forth. Not every aspect is of it is pro multiplayer - far from it.

I'd honestly expect that if you played the game with friends you would be situated near them in game unless on a long run.

Actually it isn't a good point at all. As clearly, the game is Elite Dangerous, not Elite. Whilst ED shares alot of DNA from previous games, it clearly isn't those games.

The quicker people realize that the developers vision for ED actually diverges in areas from the design of previous games, then the quicker they'll realign their expectations.

 

[Chrysophylax]

Sorry, I'm not understanding that, what is the game to you about, if not space travel? It's not a mission based space combat game (ah-la Wing comander), it's not a FPS, it's not a tycoon game...

Now, I'l admit that Space travel in ED could use a little sprucing up to be made more exciting.

I have a very abstract view on video games. Space is a backdrop, a setting. What I bought this for was for the accessible and fun combat mechanics. Whether it's set in space or not doesn't faze me much. I didn't buy it because I could travel through space.

So when I tried travelling and found it slow and boring, I stopped doing it. Not sure what's hard to understand here. The game clearly enables this sort of playstyle.

 

[Max Stingray]

I have absolutely zero interest in arena fights. I play in the actual game. When playing in the actual game I have zero interest in flying hundreds of lightyears, or having friends fly hundreds of lightyears, just so we can meet up somewhere and then enjoy an evening together with multicrew.

I understand but disagrees, I am i agreement with the OP (+Rep). For many, the game is a about traveling through space in a BIG galaxy, you need to go to places to do things and deal with it. Instant "Telepresence" (and magic all-see cams) is too much of a stretch. I do not see why there should be a difference between MC and Wings, with wings you need to travel to the same system if you want to bounty-hunt together.

Other than a separate game mode a la CQC as the OP suggested there other way to make MC accessible like allowing the people to assume the identity of NPC crew already in board.

The game limitations like jump-ranges, ship transfer times, max power plant output, rank-based mission gates are, imho, what make the game interesting as one needs to think strategically and plan. Elite has a unique combination of strategy and action and I think the people that dislike instant telepresence are worried about the game becoming too much action-based and loosing it appeal.

 

[Weps]

If FDev added the option to instantly travel to a friend to wing up, I'm 99% sure that more players would use the wing feature

One additional question someone should ask in this scenario would be: in addition to more players playing wings, how many other players would stop playing the game entirely because they feel it no longer represents an enjoyable pass-time?

Think about Powerplay or the BGS for a moment. Imagine a Reddit post where a dude starts a campaign to wipe out a faction from the game: wing up with me, it's instant, and lets destroy some ships from factions X! For the players defending that faction, do you think it would be fun to see their hard work vanish in an instant because of a focused attack using such a mechanic?

Or imagine another player at a CG: wing up with me instantly and bypass the nasty blockade which awaits you! I'm right at the station entrance! Do you think the guys blockading the CG, as meaningless as that may be in the context of play modes, would be very happy about it?

When people talk about removing traveling from the game because it is in their opinion a burden, they fail to remember just how many other mechanics are built on the simple foundation of traveling. Because, at its core, this is a game about traveling. After the galaxy editor, flight and supercruise where the first established mechanics. The first players were buying this game when it was nothing more than an empty galaxy in which you could travel, because that's what they wanted to do.

Calling people inconsiderate of those who want fast traveling mechanics, is no better than oneself being inconsiderate of those who appreciate the game's traveling system, slow as it may seem to some.