The Star Citizen Thread v5

[McGlashan]

Depends on what we mean is a reasonable timeline for making a game of this type, quality and scope.

Depends what you mean by "quality and scope". Can you seriously look at 2.6.1 and imagine that they're only a year or two from release? With everything required for a MVP, let alone every feature they've promised? Bearing in mind the game is in almost exactly the same state as it was a year ago, with the exception of a superfluous FPS module, an additional location and a handful of ships.

Hold on to your claim that a failure to release before 2019 would indicate "development hell", because it's going to come around more quickly, and with a lot less to show for it, than you think.

 

[Cmdr-Wotherspoon]

The point I'm making is that no-one will wait forever. Not even the most die-hard of fans.

It depends how very, very gently the backers are let down. Mr Roberts makes one of his visionary claims at a show, and the money rolls in. Then the original deadline rolls past, and backers start saying, "well, of course, the Great Prophet's words are not supposed to be taken literally", and we get a point release instead of 3.0, and the we get a bug fix to the point release, and everyone loses sight of the fact that even 3.0 will nothing more than a rough cut of the first attempt at game mechanics.

And sometime later, perhaps September, Mr Roberts will hold another fundraising spectacular in which he might say, "you know, we're going to skip 3.0 and go straight to 4.0", and the sales will boom again, and Alpha version 2.9.2 will eventually be released, and it might have some minor improvements to clipping or some new FPS weapons to distract from the lack of gameplay. And there will be free-fly weekends, and ship sales, so more ships can fly aimlessly around the not-very-Persistent Universe.

However they got here, CIG now has letting the backers down gently down to a fine art, and I reckon that they can keep it up more-or-less forever. Or until the money runs out.

 

[Frank]

I like to be optimistic
and i am still optimistic for this year.

the year where we should finally see something good in StarCitizen.

said so i must be critic with some aspects.

First off:

how is it possible that in 4 years (!!) of development the devs weren't able to change format of downloadable packs.
how is it possible that after 4 years we are forced to download the whole game for every new patch or update that comes out ?
4 years and we must download 32 gb of game .. again.. and again.. and again, and again again...again ...again and again and again.. and again... and again and again...

it looks like the spoon murderer..

My only regret in life is that I have but the one rep I can give you for pointing out this utterly brilliant spoon murderer trailer. You deserve to be showered with reps.

 

[dayrth]

My only regret in life is that I have but the one rep I can give you for pointing out this utterly brilliant spoon murderer trailer. You deserve to be showered with reps.

I have many regrets in life, but that isn't one of them. I did have rep to give (no rep left to give you though Frank, which is regretful ).

 

[Agony_Aunt]

"you know, we're going to skip 3.0 and go straight to 4.0", and the sales will boom again, and Alpha version 2.9.2 will eventually be released, and it might have some minor improvements to clipping or some new FPS weapons to distract from the lack of gameplay. And there will be free-fly weekends, and ship sales, so more ships can fly aimlessly around the not-very-Persistent Universe.

I laughed at first, then i was like, erm... that is pretty much how they did it last year.

 

[Tippis]

Depends on what you mean started.

I mean that Chris Roberts explicitly, publicly, and officially said that development started in 2011.

If you want to deviate on the meaning of “started”, then we would have to move that date backwards since there are plenty of rumours that he was shopping the idea around with the usual suspects as early as 2008, in the wake of the Costner débâcle.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

I mean that Chris Roberts explicitly said that development started in 2011.

- Started programming
- started making campaign levels
- started writing the SCRIPT
- started prototyping physics
- tested different engines and choosed cryengine
- worked a few hours a week on the idea
- had 7 friends and worked 8 hours a day for a year from Jan to Dec.
- started in the beginning of 2011 or the end of 2011

Yes, development started but with no more info than that it can mean ANY of the above so the progress they made in 2011 is rather vague.

 

[Viajero]

I mean that Chris Roberts explicitly, publicly, and officially said that development started in 2011.

If you want to deviate on the meaning of “started”, then we would have to move that date backwards since there are plenty of rumours that he was shopping the idea around with the usual suspects as early as 2008, in the wake of the Costner débâcle.

Do you have any links on that 2008 thing that can be shared?

 

[MTBFritz]

But thats the exact same level of information we have on other games and defining THEIR starting point isnt really problem....only Star Citizen makes its impossible to pin down anything at all even the starting date.

....are you sure you are not looking desperatly for anything that would breath air back into this corpse?

 

[Viajero]

- Started programming
- started making campaign levels
- started writing the SCRIPT
- started prototyping physics
- tested different engines and choosed cryengine
- worked a few hours a week on the idea
- had 7 friends and worked 8 hours a day for a year from Jan to Dec.
- started in the beginning of 2011 or the end of 2011

Yes, development started but with no more info than that it can mean ANY of the above so the progress they made in 2011 is rather vague.

I guess that goes the same for pretty much any other project that starts a development. Small begginings, with a small team and few deliverables, and growing as actual design decisions get made and goals for code and development (and resource needs) get clearer and clearer. I very much doubt that all the specific code work for a given project (and the manpower for it) can be decided and committed to at the very start of a project. The project, any project, needs some time to explore options, obtain further definition and grow accordingly. In the case of Chris Roberts we actually know a few things for 2011. At the very least we know he was "prototyping" and working on "various LOD processes as I knew this would be important considering the large poly counts I was aiming for". This means actual code and asset creation work indeed.

 

[Zetta]

- Started programming
- started making campaign levels
- started writing the SCRIPT
- started prototyping physics
- tested different engines and choosed cryengine
- worked a few hours a week on the idea
- had 7 friends and worked 8 hours a day for a year from Jan to Dec.
- started in the beginning of 2011 or the end of 2011

Yes, development started but with no more info than that it can mean ANY of the above so the progress they made in 2011 is rather vague.

Most people would consider 'started' to mean a project entering production status, prior to that it's just ideas and chin-wagging.
In Roberts' 2012 inverview he explicitly mentions production "Basically I’ve been working with a small team over the course of the past year to get the early prototyping and production done."

 

[Skizomeuh]

But... Can we be sure development has really started yet?

For me, 0.0.0.2.6.1 is barely near the end of preprod phase.

 

[Tippis]

- started in the beginning of 2011 or the end of 2011

Per Chris' description, towards the end, since the game had been in development for a year before the kickstarter started.

Yes, development started but with no more info than that it can mean ANY of the above so the progress they made in 2011 is rather vague.

Any progress made ever since is rather vague too, so that matches up.
Not that it matters — the simple fact is that we're now well into the sixth year of development. By the end of the year, we'll enter into the seventh. If the game comes out in the second half of the year (which it very obviously won't), then it will have been a 6-year project. The only way around this fact is to suggest that Chris was lying to his backers, not just about what they were backing and about what the prospects were for finishing it, but about whether or not it the project had even started at that point.

Do you have any links on that 2008 thing that can be shared?

http://gameranx.com/updates/id/70033/article/the-chris-roberts-theory-of-everything/ – about a third way down (or just search for Costner). Or do you mean the rumour that he's been shopping around, because then, no — that's just developer talk and not even gaming media is that desperate… yet…

I don't remember if the LEVEL #018 article (or its Kotaku UK translation) brought it up, I'll have to check…

 

[Rolan]

Happy Hour: Gamedev

Greetings Citizens!

This week’s episode of Happy Hour we’re going to shake things up a bit. While Happy Hour will always be the casual hangout with developers, staff and the community to showcase Star Citizen, we’re excited by the chance to expand our horizons with this week’s show. For the first time ever, LIVE viewers of the show will have the opportunity to directly affect the creation of an asset for Star Citizen!

As you know, Star Citizen will need lots of star systems, and those systems will need planets, and those planets will need inhabitants. In this Friday’s Happy Hour: Gamedev, Character Art Director Josh Herman will create the concept of a new creature LIVE with direct input from you, the backers. This is your chance to be a part of the creative process live, as we’ll take suggestions from the chat, and put important decisions up to vote. What creature will you help Josh create this Friday on Happy Hour? Post your initial ideas below, don’t forget to vote on the ones you like, and tune in LIVE this Friday at 12pm PST on twitch.tv/starcitizen.

(NOTE: Suggestions below should be for types of creatures i.e. birds, fish, tigers, etc. We will take the highest voted suggestions as a basis for Friday’s work, but you will affect the details then.)

About Josh Herman:

Josh Herman is currently the Character Art Director at Cloud Imperium Games, working on Star Citizen and Squadron 42. He arrived at Cloud Imperium Games having specialized in designing, modelling, and sculpting hard surface and organic characters for some of the industry’s biggest films and AAA games as well as commercials, short films, music videos, and rapid prototyped statues and marquettes for client presentations and collectibles. With exceptional skills in ZBrush and Maya he has had experience in Art Direction, Character Development, High Poly Modelling and Sculpting, Designing, Look Development, Retopology, UV Layout, Texturing and Shading.

Josh has worked at Legacy Effects on projects such as Real Steel, The Amazing Spider-Man, Total Recall and The Avengers. Josh left Legacy to try his hand at games, working for Naughty Dog on Uncharted 3: Drake’s Deception. He was then recruited by Marvel Studios, where he worked as Lead Character Artist on films such as Iron Man 3, Thor: The Dark World, Captain America: The Winter Solider, Guardians of the Galaxy, The Avengers: Age of Ultron, Doctor Strange and others before joining the team here at CIG.

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/happy-hour-gamedev

 

[Viajero]

http://gameranx.com/updates/id/70033/article/the-chris-roberts-theory-of-everything/ – about a third way down (or just search for Costner). Or do you mean the rumour that he's been shopping around, because then, no — that's just developer talk and not even gaming media is that desperate… yet…

I don't remember if the LEVEL #018 article (or its Kotaku UK translation) brought it up, I'll have to check…

Yeah, was referring to the shopping around.

 

[Zetta]

Interesting bit about the CitizenCon demo taken from https://robertsspaceindustries.com/media/nrnu5u2bjvs3er/source/JumpPoint_04-11_Nov-16_Homemaking.pdf

Spoiler

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Following up from Wotherspoon's comment from earlier, just noticed this today on reddit:

https://www.reddit.com/r/starcitizen/comments/5vcl5l/30_and_31_hinted_at_being_merged_according_to/

"In addition, there is a second thread for the next 10 for the Chairman staring Chris Roberts and Tony Zurovec, where they’ll be answering your questions about professions in Alpha 3.0, with a special emphasis on Cargo and Mining. Don’t forget that in addition to adding your questions, Subscribers can also vote on the ones they want to see answered most."

So, maybe 3.0 and 3.1 are being merged.... or not, because later on someone makes this point:

Seems likely that those other systems would continue going while they continue to work with the AI and netcode, which are the main blockers for 3.0, as far as i know.

Now, who knows if those 2 things really are blockers, but they are two of the most complex elements that need to be sorted for 3.0 i presume (along with everything else promised of course). So, not an issue I suppose that they would spend spare effort on doing other stuff.

Does make you wonder about the state of certain elements and how their internal timetable is looking in terms of 3.0 though.

 

[Tuub t Tute]

Happy Hour: Gamedev

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/spectrum/community/SC/forum/3/thread/happy-hour-gamedev

Taking suggestions from the audience... that could be a whole barrel of laughs! I'm immediately thinking of the South Park episode with "I crossed chalk with cheese, a top hat with a beard..."

 

[Agony_Aunt]

Taking suggestions from the audience... that could be a whole barrel of laughs! I'm immediately thinking of the South Park episode with "I crossed chalk with cheese, a top hat with a beard..."

Ah, more let the dreamers dream kind of thing.

 

[Snarfbuckle]

That's nuthin'. Someone DM'ed me a link on Twitter from /r/ds in which those guys were actually arguing about the merits of hardware vs virtualized cloud servers for running games. Seriously, they've actually got a thread going in which they're arguing that the latter is somehow cheaper because "scalability" - reasons.

How is it NOT cheaper with virtual servers compared to actual owned server racks?

- You do not need to own a physical rack for each server location
- You do not need to order new physical racks to be delivered and installed for each server location when needed
- If player count increases you call the company you rent server access from and request an increase in server size and THEY will be responsible for getting the increase you request (and pay for)
- Any repairs and support is done by the company who owns the servers

Or is there another aspect you are referring to that would make it more expensive?