You know? Once in a very long time, you get a chance to see into their very souls. It's like I heard it in a dream, and then saw it on the web. Craziness. How do you read my sleeping mind?
SDC Presents: Operation Healies4Feelies
- Thread starter Rinzler o7o7o7
- Start date
You know? Once in a very long time, you get a chance to see into their very souls. It's like I heard it in a dream, and then saw it on the web. Craziness. How do you read my sleeping mind?
Rinzler o7o7o7
Banned
That's always to be expected when anyone in my group posts anything here. Some of the softer ones just can't stand it
That's always to be expected when anyone in my group posts anything here. Some of the softer ones just can't stand it
On a more technical side of the discussion, would this trick have worked outside the station(in the no fire zone) as well or are the external station guns to powerful?
Would you consider it a fair fight?
External guns have the reverberating cascade effect, shields cannot best them.
Vermill
Banned
With engineers RNG there is no such thing like fair fight in this game...
IKR! You're under fire by the entire starport, PLUS you get to kill Corvettes. In the eyes of healbeam-lovers, of course it's a fair fight. Don't you see that?
Do you even know how to use critical thinking?
I suspect you don't think world hunger is a problem either because you've got a full plate of food every night?
At the end of the day Frontier ignored reasonable guidance that healing effect was massively disproportionate to incoming damage.
When it takes external station guns and entire sodding security force to stop a heal chain there is a gigantic issue. The fact that the internal station weapons are entirely ineffective illustrates how much healing does.
It is really really broken. It was always really really broken and the fix isn't to make the station hit harder it's to make the healing gain not outpace an entire zarking station's weapon output!
![[VR] Deggial](https://forums-cdn.zaonce.net/data/avatars/m/47/47252.jpg?1553527110){kind=avatar}
I have some really innocent questions (I am not a PvP player and have no experience in any related balancing or meta):
1) The OP's demonstration is quite static. I guess, in a PvP combat there is at least as much maneuvering involved as in PvE combats? Is it even possible to constantly target your wing mates with healing beams? And if this isn't the case - shouldn't the healing effect be strong enough to do some recharging during this shorter times to be worthwhile? So, is this "experiment" a valid prove at all?
2) Aren't wing battles supposed to have a tactical component? Would't it simply be a good idea to take out the healer first in a concentrated attack? Or doesn't the heat of a battle allow such interesting considerations?
3) Let's assume the issue is real and SDC demonstrated the need of balance does in fact exist (outside of an artificially constructed griefer constellation that would be set up only by somebody likeminded to themselves anyway): Wouldn't it have been possible to demostrate the issue by destroying NPCs? What did targeting exclusively players add to the point? Or were there other back-thoughts at work, too?
1) The OP's demonstration is quite static. I guess, in a PvP combat there is at least as much maneuvering involved as in PvE combats? Is it even possible to constantly target your wing mates with healing beams? And if this isn't the case - shouldn't the healing effect be strong enough to do some recharging during this shorter times to be worthwhile? So, is this "experiment" a valid prove at all?
2) Aren't wing battles supposed to have a tactical component? Would't it simply be a good idea to take out the healer first in a concentrated attack? Or doesn't the heat of a battle allow such interesting considerations?
3) Let's assume the issue is real and SDC demonstrated the need of balance does in fact exist (outside of an artificially constructed griefer constellation that would be set up only by somebody likeminded to themselves anyway): Wouldn't it have been possible to demostrate the issue by destroying NPCs? What did targeting exclusively players add to the point? Or were there other back-thoughts at work, too?
Did you watch the video? I think you need to watch the video. Rinzler (like them or not) bothered to clearly explain what's going on. I'd encourage you to watch.
The heal affect from weapons is outpacing massive amounts of damage. People are getting hung up on moral concerns and ignoring what's actually happening.
I think Rinzler and friends have demonstrated that healing beams in their present form are ridiculously OP and a broken game mechanic -as demonstrated by being able to tank station fire. There is no downside. So SDC happen to be right on this one since all it takes is for every member of a wing to have one healing beam - resulting in never ending fights due to invulnerability.
Can't see the wood for the trees. People are once again hung up on moral semantics rather than noticing ships are tanking sustained station damage with no issue.
That's not a station problem. That's not a who has won some arbitrary PVP contest problem. Its not a sodium imbalance
It's mechanics that are as broken as sin. Because they are broken as sin.
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Yes, yes, I watched the video, don't worry. And I totally got the high potential shield recharge has; my question was serious: how much is it an issue in a real battle, where everything moves and the healer can be attacked?
And sorry, SDC brought the "moral concerns" up on themselves. If it were just for the (rightful) sake of the demonstration, NPCs would have been an equally valid target. Especially, as they (probably) destroyed random commanders who were not better outfitted for PvP than those. It would have been a better demonstration, if they would have choosen to experiment on their own kind (with PvP-engineered equipment).
Well I can answer (2) and (3). Not SDC.
You would not use thr tactic demonstrated in the video in a fluid battle. You would use other tactics. You would use the tactic demonstrated in the video to interfere with CGs that a group does not want completed. Horses for Courses -some time I run, some times I hve to fight. Not all tactics work in all scituations.
They were just practising for the next CG! or perhaps they thought a 25 page thread would occur, so you know used the communities morale outrage about a game to re-enforce their goals to have the feature they do not like looked at. It could just be they find this forum's community funny!
Simon
Oh it's an MMO with sides. Pick a PP side and fly in open... You're agreeing to PvP. In Empire/Alliance/Federation space in open... You're agreeing to PvP. In open at all??? You agree to PvP there are too many sides, player groups etc etc etc. The option to ban just feeds the arrogance players of this game whothink they can fly around and have no one else affect them. If they bring in search and block it will be the death knell of this game.
If we are questioning why a station cannot destroy a ship while it's healing and your response is "so how is this a problem in the real world" I can only conclude that you are somewhat confused by the fact that a station cannot kill a healing ship, is somehow not an issue of concern.
Do you understand the amount of DPS the internal weapons generate? It's non-trivial.
It's broken. The mechanic is broken. I don't care what the scenario is. It's. Broken. This was raised during the initial beta as being far too much negation of damage. It's still far too much negation of damage.
SDC are just screwing with it because clearly they find it both hilarious and very very stupid to be able to tank a station and be able to do whatever they want without consequence.
There's really no defence for such rediculous amounts of healing. One beam can outpace an entire large ships damage output. Or this case? An entire station.
How people can't see a problem here, regardless of where you stand on PVP, is just comical.
Rinzler o7o7o7
Banned
Ordinarily, no. Definitely not. We have to fight an entire starport's firepower just to be near our target.
Thankfully, healing beams take away any sense of danger in combat and grant invincibility. That's moreso the video's entire emphasis; showing that absolutely impossible engagements are now able to be done semi-afk thanks to how broken healing is.
No, the external kinetic rounds have reverberating cascade on them, which is the exact same effect that's on our torpedoes.
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1. Targeting the healer is always the best bet here. They cannot heal and avoid incoming damage effectively.
2. SDC and a few other groups repetitively complained about Thermal shock/cascade exaggerating the OP nature of the effect until FD nerfed it into the ground and ruined what could have been a fun meta. The cannons you refer to are the only weapons which seemed to avoid the nerf and remain valid.
3. I'm pretty sure target lock breaker removes the target lock no matter who the target is..wingmate or enemy. (not tested much though)
4. Obviously the healing beams need a second pass and FD were all set to rebalance them without the need for all this silly drama.
Will we have to put up with SDC making out they did another great service for the ED community with this op? ... Just listening in to a SDC twitch stream/hearing the discourse on TS3 is enough to know what they bring -as a community- to ED and personally i think its disgusting.
This "OP" is another cry for attention from a tiny minority of players which populate the least popular element of the game (PVP) that want "PvP balance" to be a priority for dev time. I say this as a person that enjoys both pvp and pve equally.
The concept of "balanced PVP" is ridiculous in a game of this type with a clear vertical progression model & insane power creep. Can we stop wasting time attempting to "balance PvP" and dedicate time to the play style that the vast majority of the game enjoy or separate the two, then true balancing could maybe take place.
Personally I assumed ED was never intended to be balanced around the niche that is PvP, especially as the game is not designed with those very few PvP players in mind...ive seen it happen in GW2 and plenty of other mmo's, attempting to balance PVP without separating the modes is pointless and an exercise in futility.
Dons hazmat suit and awaits the typical SDC "subsalt" comments
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