Gunner = Arcade Action Cam for the 12 yr olds?

[Devari]

Major TV/movie franchises hardly constitute the bulk of sci-fi and none of the ones you have listed are hard sci-fi.

Actually, what I've listed does basically constitute the bulk of sci-fi in terms of the most popular series that have been developed into TV/movies. You can't just ignore what is basically the majority of the genre by arbitrarily deciding to exclude TV/movies. Almost all of the most widely known and popular settings use some type of FTL drive and so do the vast majority of lesser-known series.

I also disagree about none of them being "hard" sci-fi settings, both Aliens and BSG have basically defined the modern version of the hard sci-fi genre thematically and visually, to the point that the Expanse clearly draws heavily from both settings in terms of visuals and themes.

I'm almost positive a ship heats up at the same rate when in proximity to a star irrespective of fuel scooping.

Fuel scooping dramatically increases your heat to the point that I have disabled my fuel scoop when necessary to stop myself from overheating near a star. Being near a star usually has a minimal effect on your base heat at idle but significantly affects your ability to dissipate heat when you use other modules. If you have ever been interdicted while fuel scooping and drop out near the star you'll find your weapons and other systems will overheat your ship MUCH faster then they will in deep space.

It's not the temperature of the gas in contact with the ship that causes heating...that's far too diffuse..it's the radiaton from the star.

No, it's not radiation from the star, you ship doesn't absorb high-energy gamma radiation and heat up from it. In fact your shields and hull have no problem being next to a star in terms of handling the temperatures. The outside of your ship is insulated from the inside of your ship VERY effectively otherwise you couldn't enter a star's corona which can reach millions of degrees kelvin. The issue with your ship's heat dissipation near a star is that the temperature gradient between your ship's heat radiators and the surrounding space is much higher in deep space then it is in proximity to a star which means you can't dissipate the internal heat from your ship as effectively.

That heat has to go somewhere. Radiation, especially at low temperatures, is only going to remove heat very slowly...this is why the ship's radiators glow white hot as out ships approach their limits.

Heat radiators on Elite ships use some type of coolant loop to bring heat from the ship's interior to the exterior of the ship so it can be dissipated via. the heat radiator vents. That is also why heat sinks work, they take overheated coolant and flush it into the heat sink to eject it, replacing it with "cool" coolant which is put back into the coolant loop. That is why heat sinks have limited ammo, you are basically ejecting coolant each time you fire one of them.

I would very much expect the skin of the ship to be actively cooled via the same system that cools everything else.

The ship's hull serves as an insulator and is not thermally connected to the ship's reactor or internal modules EXCEPT via. the ship's radiator vents when they are actively dissipating internal heat. The ship is otherwise a closed system and can ONLY dissipate heat via the heat radiators, otherwise going into silent running wouldn't really do anything to reduce your thermal signature.

And the third person gunner camera is just a computer game in the Elite universe constructed on the fly from sensor telemetry.

Except it isn't. It's a god-mode perspective that is not consistent with ANY of the existing sensor technology in Elite.

Otherwise why can't I use that same system to fly my ship, or dock or land on a planet?

I read your post. I think one of many flaws in your argument is equating a parking camera in an upper-mid range sedan with the best we can do.

It is the best we can do when it comes to parking. It is not useful for combat or weapons on military vehicles which, as I mentioned above, are controlled remotely via. specific camera feeds.

The problem that a lot of people seem to be missing here is that parking a car with a highly distorted surround-view camera system is completely different from firing a weapon accurately.

 

[[VR] Deggial]

Devari: No, we can't produce a magic, omnipotent, god-mode camera that follows a ship perfectly like they are using in multicrew. The closest we could do is use a camera view that is mounted on a drone flying behind the ship but this would have significant limitations. The Elite multicrew camera clearly isn't a drone-mounted camera given that it can't be seen or destroyed, remains perfectly stable and magically finds the optimal position around the ship at all times.

Yes, you are right! It's pure magic! Because a 3rd person fiew would mean:
- To take all data about the involved objects (positions and directional vectors based on calculations or from your ship's sensors, knowledge from databases, ...)
- and use a potent computer to calculate a virtual representation of the data.
- Then you would have to display the virtual representation via a monitor or - even better - a VR HMD.

No really, this is unthinkable! Pure magic would be needed in order to achieve this! Magic, or a box-sized gaming computer in the year 2017 and a game called 'Elite: Dangerous'. But definitely not possible with a deliberately developed tactical computer in the year 3303!

 

[X-Terminator]

GUNNER-VIEW, so what if our 2 seater Ship has no Turrets installed but just Gimbles up front? This will be interesting if enough Content has indeed been poured into this. I'm thinking the "unrevealed best feature" will turn out to the leaked ivP6 network!

 

[Devari]

Devari: No, we can't produce a magic, omnipotent, god-mode camera that follows a ship perfectly like they are using in multicrew. The closest we could do is use a camera view that is mounted on a drone flying behind the ship but this would have significant limitations. The Elite multicrew camera clearly isn't a drone-mounted camera given that it can't be seen or destroyed, remains perfectly stable and magically finds the optimal position around the ship at all times.

Yes, you are right! It's pure magic! Because a 3rd person fiew would mean:
- To take all data about the involved subjects (positions and directional vectors based on calculations or from your ship's sensors, knowledge from databases, ...)
- and use a potent computer to calculate a virtual representation of the data.
- Then you would have to display the virtual representation via a monitor or - even better - a VR HMD.

No really, this is unthinkable! Pure magic would be needed in order to achieve this! Magic, or a box-sized gaming computer in the year 2017. But definitely not possible with a deliberately developed tactical computer in the year 3303!

Right. And those sensors which can do this are utterly incapable of being used by the pilot, who would most definitely want a 3D perspective when flying the ship?

Sorry, but Elite has heavily restricted MANY gameplay aspects that could EASILY be automated or done in a faster, easier or just more common-sense way. The presumption here is that the technology either doesn't exist or is prohibitively expensive. That is central to the game and you can't throw that out the window for arcade-like gameplay without destroying the game's immersion and gameplay premise.

We don't have an autopilot to take us to a destination in supercruise, because we have to manually throttle back and push a button to disengage our FSD. Because "immersion" and "arbitrary gameplay".

Ships like the Asp and Vulture have larger canopies that give good visibility but are more vulnerable to damage. Why not just sit behind a thick slab of armor and use an external camera instead? Because "immersion" and "arbitrary gameplay".

Conversely, I can't see much out of the side of my Viper's cockpit, because I have a small canopy and have substantially reduced visibility and situational awareness as a result, and no way to mount an external camera to see directly to the sides or rear of my ship. Why design a combat fighter with such poor cockpit visibilty? Again, because "immersion" and "arbitrary gameplay".

Now we suddenly have a god-mode, 3rd person perspective that I'm supposed to believe can generate a perfect, 3D representation of the surrounding space but the PILOT CAN'T USE IT.

Why? Where was all of this "advanced sensor technology" before? Why is only a gunner using it but not the pilot?

Sorry, it just makes zero sense to introduce a magic, god-mode camera into the game that completely invalidates the prior gameplay and combat limitations.

 

[Morbad]

Fuel scooping dramatically increases your heat

Fuel scooping has no effect on heat, in and of itself:

[video=youtube;bfsmX1l96bA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfsmX1l96bA[/video]

That ship, as configured, will always stabilize at 68% heat when 2.45ls from that star, no matter if it has a fuel scoop at all, nor how much it scoops. You can do the same demonstration with any ship and any scoopable star in the game.

No, it's not radiation from the star, you ship doesn't absorb high-energy gamma radiation and heat up from it.

Our ships aren't transparent or perfectly reflective; they almost certainly block and absorb at least IR, visible light, and UV. I would also hope it blocks x-rays and gamma rays, otherwise our commanders would be in serous trouble.

In fact your shields and hull have no problem being next to a star in terms of handling the temperatures. The outside of your ship is insulated from the inside of your ship VERY effectively otherwise you couldn't enter a star's corona which can reach millions of degrees kelvin. The issue with your ship's heat dissipation near a star is that the temperature gradient between your ship's heat radiators and the surrounding space is much higher in deep space then it is in proximity to a star which means you can't dissipate the internal heat from your ship as effectively.

You are confusing heat with temperature.

A star's corona is quite diffuse and even at millions of degrees C would only be responsible for a small portion of the heating you'd receive from being in such close proximity to a star. The bulk of it is radiative heating. Also, the radiators on our ship don't operate via conduction, but via radiation. They work just as well near a star (or would if they were pointed away from it), but you'd still have to dissipate the extra heat your ship as a whole receives from stellar radiation.

Heat radiators on Elite ships use some type of coolant loop to bring heat from the ship's interior to the exterior of the ship so it can be dissipated via. the heat radiator vents. That is also why heat sinks work, they take overheated coolant and flush it into the heat sink to eject it, replacing it with "cool" coolant which is put back into the coolant loop. That is why heat sinks have limited ammo, you are basically ejecting coolant each time you fire one of them.

Since the ship skin can handle close proximity to sources of radiation that would otherwise cause extreme heating, it stands to reason that there is also a coolant loop actively cooling the skin of the ship once it reaches a certain threshold.

The ship's hull serves as an insulator and is not thermally connected to the ship's reactor or internal modules EXCEPT via. the ship's radiator vents when they are actively dissipating internal heat. The ship is otherwise a closed system and can ONLY dissipate heat via the heat radiators, otherwise going into silent running wouldn't really do anything to reduce your thermal signature.

The ship's hull would melt if it wasn't cooled in many situations we can place our vessels in. The radiators may be able to handle extreme heat, but the hull itself probably cannot, else there would be no need for a separate radiator section and heatpumps to move heat to them. During silent running it would obviously make sense to shut down coolant flow to the skin of the vessel, if the coolant temperature was above a certain level.

Otherwise why can't I use that same system to fly my ship. or dock or land on a planet?

From the livestreams, I got the distinct impression that, other than lack of access to the HUD and menus, we would be able to fly the ship just fine in the external view.

 

[X-Terminator]

94 pages of arguments in, and now discussing BMW parking cameras? Tings be gettin surreal folks.

People are aware this isn't going to change right?

Where is the thread now ????????????????????????????????????????????????

 

[[VR] Merkir]

Of course a 3D reconstruction translated to a point outside the ship is possible. Would there be some errors/inconsistencies/artifacts? Yes of course, but they would be minor and wouldn't affect a gunner's ability to operate the weapons.

That was the tl;dr, now a little more detail. The main issues with translation of a view point to an external location are occlusion and dynamic effects. Occlusion is not an issue if we assume dozen(s) of cameras are located strategically around the ship and that image processing software starts gathering ship/object data for each and every ship/object as it enters radar range. Then, when the 3D reconstruction is performed, occluded surfaces are rendered from the pre-calculated image processed results of that object. In effect the software continuously stores and updates the known surfaces of any nearby object as that object rotates and translates. Indeed even this level of simplistic image processing isn't needed in the case of barely 30 known ship types, whose surfaces would be pre-stored in ship's data.

Then there's the problem of dynamic effects which might not be seen from the ship itself, such as thrusters firing. If no cameras from the ship can see a particular thruster, how does the remote point see it? Even this is easy to solve given that the targeting computers are continuously computing target vectors and acceleration. Based on both of these, the computers can easily compute which thrusters are being fired, and by how much, thereby reconstructing simulations of the thrusters in action.

Would the 3D translation and reconstruction be perfect? By no means, but it would be plenty accurate enough for a gunner to be very effective.


Disclaimer: I'm not a supporter of telepresence at all, but not because of the gunner's reconstructed view. I object mainly because instantaneous data transfer across the galaxy is just silly.

 

[Yaffle]

All

We seem to be a long way from the topic now, so here's a reminder of the first post:

Ok, got your attention. (Apologies to all the 12yr olds out there)

There are several parts I do like about multicrew, but I think I should adress
what bothers me about it at the first glance:

Its clear that FD takes the route here to an Arcade sort of gameplay which breaks
a lot rules of the ed universe, and one of them is that cam view.
I am not against the 360 view, what bothers me is that its not immersive in
the sense of being physically possible in any way. If FD would have
made it more schematic, so that the ship itself is a rendered wireframe and the spacebackground is replaced with something else, I would be able to believe
I have some sort of tactical view which is rendered by the ships computer.
But having like a "real" 360 degree cam which is not even existant (or can you shoot it down?) is by all means totally destroying any immersion (for me)
Sure, many of you will like it, but I had hoped FD would somehow maintain
some consistent ingame rules with their features.




Update:
In the thread I gave an example why for some players the fun can be spoiled be unlogical gameplay features:

In a movie, you expect when a person leaves the screen on the right side that it would appear after the cut on the left side. That`s a learned logic of how films work in general. If that doesn´t happen you might not really be able to put a finger on it, but it nudges on the back of your brain, and you might feel slightly irritated. Of course, editors use that in certain cases to make a movie more dramatic.

I think the same thing is happening in ED when certain rules are being ignored or put aside in favor of "fun-gameplay". Some (a lot?) players, get that uneasy feeling when the logic of the gameworld is compromised with certain (mostly new) additions which breaks ingame rules and therefore their fun is spoiled to some extent (some other compromises to gameplay have been accepted and are learned like instatransfer after death, etc.)

The solution would be for FD to find a compromise, where you still can have fun, but it won´t give you that nudge in the back of your brain.
In regard to the gunner view, it wouldnt hurt the fun, when you have a more holographic (however this is implemented - there were some nice ideas already mentioned in the thread) style of view, where you actually see a difference to the "normal/real" view of the universe. That would IMHO restore the immersion (still not solving the cmdr hologram transfers across the galaxy, but thats another story).

Please don't derail the thread any more. Oh, and we can lose the sniping as well.

 

[Weps]

As a guy who knows nothing about graphics pipeline, I wonder how much dev work would go into making an alternative rendering for the camera view, based on the loading screen / HUD, orange 1-bit style. There already are meshes for the ships, canisters, stations, limpets, missiles, mines, asteroids, as we see those on the HUD and/or sensors panel. What else is there? Some work would be required for laser beams and projectiles.

Same color scheme as for the HUD (while, orange, green, red). Don't change anything else about the camera. Simple ship functions option: high fidelity gunner camera, toggle on/off.

If you want to go further into the lore side of things, you could make it that the use of the 1-bit camera mode generates 1% less heat on the ships. Less computing power and all that. People choosing this option because of consistency would have a reason to believe they aren't gimping themselves on purpose. Everyone else can use the current implementation without any downside. Would that constitute a compromise?

PS: I haven't read the 100 pages, someone might have proposed this already. (Preventively) giving credit where credit is due.

PPS: ok, I just realized there might be some other effects which would need work such as shield cells being used or chaff. Both camera options should convey the same info to the player.

 

[MyHammer]

As a guy who knows nothing about graphics pipeline, I wonder how much dev work would go into making an alternative rendering for the camera view, based on the loading screen / HUD, orange 1-bit style. There already are meshes for the ships, canisters, stations, limpets, missiles, mines, asteroids, as we see those on the HUD and/or sensors panel. What else is there? Some work would be required for laser beams and projectiles.

Same color scheme as for the HUD (while, orange, green, red). Don't change anything else about the camera. Simple ship functions option: high fidelity gunner camera, toggle on/off.

If you want to go further into the lore side of things, you could make it that the use of the 1-bit camera mode generates 1% less heat on the ships. Less computing power and all that. People choosing this option because of consistency would have a reason to believe they aren't gimping themselves on purpose. Everyone else can use the current implementation without any downside. Would that constitute a compromise?

PS: I haven't read the 100 pages, someone might have proposed this already. (Preventively) giving credit where credit is due.

PPS: ok, I just realized there might be some other effects which would need work such as shield cells being used or chaff. Both camera options should convey the same info to the player.

+1 rep. Cant rep you more. I guess it should come down to some compromise. Whether the solution you mentionend or some shimmer effects like used in the hollow me when a cmdr enters a ship or some semitransparent background of the actual ship interior with some visible clues that this "god like" cam view is not the "real" view would be sufficant IMHO to restore an immersive experiance for those to whom this is important. I really hope FD will listen to the feedback on this and come up with a solution.

 

[CylonSurfer]

I honestly think this whole telepresence thing would be much more believable with the the transition from first person to turret view was more of a visual experience, not the fade 1stp cam to black, fade from black to new scene. Maybe some sort of tile flipping like the below:
https://www.shutterstock.com/video/...-d-animation-k-ultra-hd-alpha-luma-matte.html

 

[Vorxian]

First person through a turret view is still the most lore friendly conclusion. If the person isn't there physically, you're simply over writing the AI on the turret itself with human control. You don't need fancy gunner seats or change anything at all. The player simply overrides the turret AI. At present, it's still pointless having physical seats in ship cockpits, if no one will actually be physically there to use them.

 

[KWAiRT]

Multi crew looks pretty useless right now anyways unless you want to help power level your buddy or just feel like doing some RP or having some fun. I mean all it does is copy over bounty rewards so there is really no point in doing anything else with it YET. If missions were sharable and rep and rewards from said missions was also copied over then it might be a bit more useful. This could then apply to the other careers like exploration and mining. For now it's just whatever. The new cameras are more than welcome though and the Avatar creator is again ground work for the future while adding a some spice to our space lives.

The biggest improvement in the update will be the sharing of bounties. Now if only this philosophy was applied the rest of the game we might actually end up with something that actually supports multiplayer instead of a massively single player game that we have now. Personally I can't wait for the new cameras and if anyone has issue with the forced first person perspective rule then simply add them to solo and group and leave open the way it is now.

I will be blunt here. These cameras should have been in solo and group mode since day 1. Flight sims during the 80's and 90's all had external cameras and flyby cams and circle cams and more. The post process effects and filters we have today only enhance these cameras. How they were neglected this long one will never know but the change in philosophy regarding cameras is a good one. Now lets see some group jumps in a nice tight formation which would look amazing! See the Alpha capital ship video for inspiration in this area. The vision is there now make it happen.

 

[Quester91]

Right. And those sensors which can do this are utterly incapable of being used by the pilot, who would most definitely want a 3D perspective when flying the ship?

Sorry, but Elite has heavily restricted MANY gameplay aspects that could EASILY be automated or done in a faster, easier or just more common-sense way. The presumption here is that the technology either doesn't exist or is prohibitively expensive. That is central to the game and you can't throw that out the window for arcade-like gameplay without destroying the game's immersion and gameplay premise.

We don't have an autopilot to take us to a destination in supercruise, because we have to manually throttle back and push a button to disengage our FSD. Because "immersion" and "arbitrary gameplay".

Ships like the Asp and Vulture have larger canopies that give good visibility but are more vulnerable to damage. Why not just sit behind a thick slab of armor and use an external camera instead? Because "immersion" and "arbitrary gameplay".

Conversely, I can't see much out of the side of my Viper's cockpit, because I have a small canopy and have substantially reduced visibility and situational awareness as a result, and no way to mount an external camera to see directly to the sides or rear of my ship. Why design a combat fighter with such poor cockpit visibilty? Again, because "immersion" and "arbitrary gameplay".

Now we suddenly have a god-mode, 3rd person perspective that I'm supposed to believe can generate a perfect, 3D representation of the surrounding space but the PILOT CAN'T USE IT.

Why? Where was all of this "advanced sensor technology" before? Why is only a gunner using it but not the pilot?

Sorry, it just makes zero sense to introduce a magic, god-mode camera into the game that completely invalidates the prior gameplay and combat limitations.

If I could rep you twice, I would.

The more time passes, the more Elite is revealing itself as a mishmash of cheap features poorly slapped on top of the other, with no regards to cohesion and logic. It almost hurts how much things don't make sense anymore. Arbitrary mechanics, lack of design and double standards rule every single part of the game, and I don't know how longer Frontier can keep building this project until it crumbles on itself.

 

[KWAiRT]

Maybe we should just rename this the silent running whiners thread.... You get to fire your guns while in silent running and now we get to see where you are... who would ever want to gun from first person with a locked camera to the ship? Someone who has no clue about game development or camera controls in a multiplayer environment that's who. Nothing wrong with these new cameras at all.

 

[Xargo]

You get to fire your guns while in silent running and now we get to see where you are...

You obviously haven't paid attention to how silent running combat works. If you fire your weapons, the sensors of the ship being fired upon will pick up your signature and can target lock you. That's why it's a good idea to disable silent running when you are firing to dissipate heat better and switch back to silent running when you have stopped firing. The problem with the gunner cam isn't that it can see SR ships when they are firing. The problem is that gunner can see them when they are not firing (and from offset perspective too to see behind occluded targets). Then there are other immersion breaking aspects on top of that.

If the gunner view showed only the targets that can be target locked by sensors, we wouldn't need to have this thread.

who would ever want to gun from first person with a locked camera to the ship?

Why would it have to be locked to the ship? This is only proposed by people who want to have some bogus reason why 1st person view wouldn't work. Of course it would be stabilized view so the viewpoint would stay level regardless of the ship rotation and gunner could turn and pitch the view within limitations of the turret fire arc. See this video for a real world example:

[video=youtube;gCW-2_qPlQw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gCW-2_qPlQw[/video]

 

[CylonSurfer]

Right. And those sensors which can do this are utterly incapable of being used by the pilot, who would most definitely want a 3D perspective when flying the ship?

Sorry, but Elite has heavily restricted MANY gameplay aspects that could EASILY be automated or done in a faster, easier or just more common-sense way. The presumption here is that the technology either doesn't exist or is prohibitively expensive. That is central to the game and you can't throw that out the window for arcade-like gameplay without destroying the game's immersion and gameplay premise.

We don't have an autopilot to take us to a destination in supercruise, because we have to manually throttle back and push a button to disengage our FSD. Because "immersion" and "arbitrary gameplay".

Ships like the Asp and Vulture have larger canopies that give good visibility but are more vulnerable to damage. Why not just sit behind a thick slab of armor and use an external camera instead? Because "immersion" and "arbitrary gameplay".

Conversely, I can't see much out of the side of my Viper's cockpit, because I have a small canopy and have substantially reduced visibility and situational awareness as a result, and no way to mount an external camera to see directly to the sides or rear of my ship. Why design a combat fighter with such poor cockpit visibilty? Again, because "immersion" and "arbitrary gameplay".

Now we suddenly have a god-mode, 3rd person perspective that I'm supposed to believe can generate a perfect, 3D representation of the surrounding space but the PILOT CAN'T USE IT.

Why? Where was all of this "advanced sensor technology" before? Why is only a gunner using it but not the pilot?

Sorry, it just makes zero sense to introduce a magic, god-mode camera into the game that completely invalidates the prior gameplay and combat limitations.

Agreed - this is my issue with it.

 

[Zambrick]

That has been in the game since alpha, it's not a new issue and instant escape pod recovery is in the game for the same reason as instant ammo, resupply, refitting and cargo transfer.



That's not space magic, it's just a corrosive substance that weakens hull strength.



That's also not space magic at all, we have incendiary rounds in use today.



The thermal special effects are ridiculous and don't even obey basic laws of thermodynamics, so yes, those are problematic.



You could possibly ionize a ship's hull in some way using a specific type of weapon and use this property to help track ships operating in silent running. Not really an issue.



Also used in every other sci-fi series. Not an issue specific to Elite.



Also used in sci-fi series everywhere. Sorry, not an issue.



Sorry, this has been in the game since alpha.



There is some sort of FTL drive or warp drive in every single sci-fi series, it's necessary for the universe to work. Not an issue.



Not magic at all. You're literally scooping in hydrogen for use as fuel.



See above re. FTL drives which are a necessary aspect of almost all sci-fi settings. If you have an issue with FTL in general you should not watch sci-fi series or play sci-fi games.



Again, if you don't want to accept the existence of an FTL drive in a sci-fi setting, you are playing the wrong game.



See above. If you are good with FTL you should also be good with shields, as they appear in almost every sci-fi series and are in fact less sophisticated than FTL.



You could, except your list isn't even very good. Other then heat weapons (which are thermodynamically impossible) the rest (energy weapons, shields and FTL drives) are simply standard sci-fi technology that you have to accept to play a sci-fi game. You're having some trouble distinguishing between standard sci-fi technology that you have to accept to play a sci-fi game and gameplay features like multicrew god-mode perspective that is not explained or consistent in ANY way with the Elite technology base.

Dont care if its been in the game since alpha. Its space magic. No there is no known or unknown chemical composition in the known universe that can corrode the hull of of a ship at 3 degrees Kelvin. Its either an endothermic or exothermic reaction. Any Acid of that concentration would also be the worlds best high explosive and everything including breathing on it would set it off. Unless each round from the multicannons are just a 55 gallon drums of highly volotile explosvie acid, No round can carry any chemical or mechanical means to do any more damage than the initial projectile impact. aka space magic.

Not good with FTL. Good with the idea of witchspace warping space around the ship while it is sitting still. that is possible in the real world and is not space magic. However shields on space ships would require the output of a star just to make light act like a solid.


No I have no problem with sci fi tropes. I dont mind any of it. But what I do mind are the fact that people are calling a drone camera some sort of space magic and god mode camera. I have a problem with these people calling this game an arcade game as if it were anything else other than an arcade game. I am tired of the whole argument that if you dont agree with them, you are somehow mentally diminished and they are correct. Its just short minded people arguing an opinion and is based in no way by fact. Its a small opinion for a small mind and these small minds seem to be purposefully sacrificing a "video game" on the alter of reality. That makes me sick and I am tired of these people causing updates and changes to be delayed as they complain about every single new introduction to the game.

 

[CylonSurfer]

Dont care if its been in the game since alpha. Its space magic. No there is no known or unknown chemical composition in the known universe that can corrode the hull of of a ship at 3 degrees Kelvin. Its either an endothermic or exothermic reaction. Any Acid of that concentration would also be the worlds best high explosive and everything including breathing on it would set it off. Unless each round from the multicannons are just a 55 gallon drums of highly volotile explosvie acid, No round can carry any chemical or mechanical means to do any more damage than the initial projectile impact. aka space magic.

Not good with FTL. Good with the idea of witchspace warping space around the ship while it is sitting still. that is possible in the real world and is not space magic. However shields on space ships would require the output of a star just to make light act like a solid.


No I have no problem with sci fi tropes. I dont mind any of it. But what I do mind are the fact that people are calling a drone camera some sort of space magic and god mode camera. I have a problem with these people calling this game an arcade game as if it were anything else other than an arcade game. I am tired of the whole argument that if you dont agree with them, you are somehow mentally diminished and they are correct. Its just short minded people arguing an opinion and is based in no way by fact. Its a small opinion for a small mind and these small minds seem to be purposefully sacrificing a "video game" on the alter of reality. That makes me sick and I am tired of these people causing updates and changes to be delayed as they complain about every single new introduction to the game.

One minute you call for this thread to be closed as it breaks forum rules (which it doesn't but nice try), then you come here with a statement like the above.... Just another example of the double standards you have.

 

[AnotherVoice]

I'll come back to this thread after people could actually test the whole thing during the 2.3 beta. In the meantime, keep it going folks, nearly at 100's