Gunner = Arcade Action Cam for the 12 yr olds?

[Vorxian]

No I have no problem with sci fi tropes. I dont mind any of it. But what I do mind are the fact that people are calling a drone camera some sort of space magic and god mode camera. I have a problem with these people calling this game an arcade game as if it were anything else other than an arcade game. I am tired of the whole argument that if you dont agree with them, you are somehow mentally diminished and they are correct. Its just short minded people arguing an opinion and is based in no way by fact. Its a small opinion for a small mind and these small minds seem to be purposefully sacrificing a "video game" on the alter of reality. That makes me sick and I am tired of these people causing updates and changes to be delayed as they complain about every single new introduction to the game.

I don't mind a drone view at all. But not a drone view and control any part of your ship at the same time. The only exception is if there's physically a drone out on the field broadcasting telemetry (which can be shot at). So it may take a team of three to pull it off. One person fly the drone, and one / two persons to have a console view through the drones camera. They'd need to co-ordinate so the drone pilot is actually aiming in the right direction for example. All this infinite range 3d rendered non latent holoimage using witchspace tech is... meh. We don't even get commodity broadcasts, so this effervescent witchspace cam stuff for the gunner makes me giddy with bafflement still [ugh]

 

[AldarisKnight]

Just a thought for the VR people. I bet it is going to be the same as the galaxy map with a HMD. That's going to be interesting. Picture a guy on 300m of line sat on a office chair. That's going to be gunner position in VR

 

[Vorxian]

Picture a guy on 300m of line sat on a office chair. That's going to be gunner position in VR

Immediate rep! LOL ohhh repped for the late day chuckle (i needed it).

Maybe that's it!!! You cracked it. Just a gun on a 300m tow rope, controlled from the other end of the galaxy via some uninterruptible no latency real time data link. I think inadvertently you just solved the mystery

 

[mung0]

Keep the salt flowing folks! Nearly 100 pages! Woooot! [heart]

 

[House0fDerp]

I don't mind a drone view at all. But not a drone view and control any part of your ship at the same time. The only exception is if there's physically a drone out on the field broadcasting telemetry (which can be shot at). So it may take a team of three to pull it off. One person fly the drone, and one / two persons to have a console view through the drones camera. They'd need to co-ordinate so the drone pilot is actually aiming in the right direction for example. All this infinite range 3d rendered non latent holoimage using witchspace tech is... meh. We don't even get commodity broadcasts, so this effervescent witchspace cam stuff for the gunner makes me giddy with bafflement still [ugh]

That makes no sense. You don't believe that we can improve on BMWs parking cam in 1300 years because the lore provides some bass ackwards reason for not transmitting market data (which as I unerstand is a matter of won't not can't)?

We've normalized interstellar travel and colonized multiple systems, but BMW cam 3.0 is too baffling...

...ok

 

[Ulfar]

Wow how did they mess this up. Maybe my memory is faulty but in previous games the panther clipper had top and bottom turrets so that when you followed your target out of one turrets arc the other turret came into play. So couple this with turrets that compensate for the pilots inputs problem solved everyone is happy. Ships with limited turret arcs had to put up with it, but that doesn't seem to factor with he way the ships are laid out now.

Can I also ask do solo players get to hire a gunner, so that their turrets can actually hit something, ignore chaff and be given sensible fire orders.

Goes back to what I keep saying when I pop in, the game has no internal logical consistency.

Is artificial gravity in for walking around ships as well, or is that still out as originally stated ?

 

[Trash Gordon]

Wow how did they mess this up. Maybe my memory is faulty but in previous games the panther clipper had top and bottom turrets so that when you followed your target out of one turrets arc the other turret came into play. So couple this with turrets that compensate for the pilots inputs problem solved everyone is happy. Ships with limited turret arcs had to put up with it, but that doesn't seem to factor with he way the ships are laid out now.

Can I also ask do solo players get to hire a gunner, so that their turrets can actually hit something, ignore chaff and be given sensible fire orders.

Goes back to what I keep saying when I pop in, the game has no internal logical consistency.

Is artificial gravity in for walking around ships as well, or is that still out as originally stated ?

Yep this.

Worked perfectly fine, I dont buy the "3rd person is the only way" talk.
Acctually I quite enjoyed, sitting in one turret in most games aswell, beeing a door gunner and coordinating with the pilot is great gameplay.

 

[CylonSurfer]

Yep this.

Worked perfectly fine, I dont buy the "3rd person is the only way" talk.
Acctually I quite enjoyed, sitting in one turret in most games aswell, beeing a door gunner and coordinating with the pilot is great gameplay.

Me either.

 

[Ambroza]

Now we suddenly have a god-mode, 3rd person perspective that I'm supposed to believe can generate a perfect, 3D representation of the surrounding space but the PILOT CAN'T USE IT.

The pilot can use it, though. Don't forget about the camera suite.

 

[House0fDerp]

Wow how did they mess this up. Maybe my memory is faulty but in previous games the panther clipper had top and bottom turrets so that when you followed your target out of one turrets arc the other turret came into play. So couple this with turrets that compensate for the pilots inputs problem solved everyone is happy. Ships with limited turret arcs had to put up with it, but that doesn't seem to factor with he way the ships are laid out now.

I'm genuinely confused by what you're saying here. It sounds like you're trying to suggest a fixed turret location system was in a prior game, thus the issue addressed by a 3rd person camera would have been solved by trying to shoehorn a system with potentially several turrets with varying and overlapping firing arcs. Tracking objects moving around the ship to various focal point seems vomit inducing. Count me as not happy with the suggestion unless I'm missing something.

I agree with a lack of internal consistency is some areas, but aside from the desire to hamstring the visual aspects of the gunner role or the idea that ships in 3303 can't do what my GFX card can do today, I'm not seeing the issue here.

- - - Updated - - -

Yep this.

Worked perfectly fine, I dont buy the "3rd person is the only way" talk.
Acctually I quite enjoyed, sitting in one turret in most games aswell, beeing a door gunner and coordinating with the pilot is great gameplay.

Only way? No. Best way of those I've seen suggested IMHO since it allows me to enjoy the game they put effort into making look good while doing that role? Yes.

 

[SeeZaa]

That makes no sense. You don't believe that we can improve on BMWs parking cam in 1300 years because the lore provides some bass ackwards reason for not transmitting market data (which as I unerstand is a matter of won't not can't)?

We've normalized interstellar travel and colonized multiple systems, but BMW cam 3.0 is too baffling...

...ok

i know right, its like someone turning down a ceramic blade for preparing sushi, because a flint blade is more traditional/nostalgic/difficult ?? i think im going to have to quote myself from another thread.. its actually probably better suited to this thread anyhoos..

in a game with a scanner that can map an entire system with a single boooonnggg, and ship systems that are able to accurately identify all local ships by type, identify the pilot by name, catalogue each module they have installed.. in detail, is able to monitor and display.. in real time.. the position and movement of each and every ship, relative to our own..

i find it amusing that anyone can't consider the ability for the same ship systems to translate that self same information, into a fully rendered image for the gunner to use, that simply places their view point from a set position, relative to the ships centre of mass, and is then able to maintain that view with something as simple as.. oh i don't know.. say a gyroscopic system that is set relative to the ships axis, using triangulation - ship - star system centre of mass - any local body/nav beacon - current targets - etc - etc - etc.. yeah that's real magic.. oh wait.. no its not, its physics, engineering and mathematics.. and easily foreseeable in the future

 

[bitstorm]

hello, i am 12 and what is this?

 

[Trash Gordon]

I'm genuinely confused by what you're saying here. It sounds like you're trying to suggest a fixed turret location system was in a prior game, thus the issue addressed by a 3rd person camera would have been solved by trying to shoehorn a system with potentially several turrets with varying and overlapping firing arcs. Tracking objects moving around the ship to various focal point seems vomit inducing. Count me as not happy with the suggestion unless I'm missing something.

I agree with a lack of internal consistency is some areas, but aside from the desire to hamstring the visual aspects of the gunner role or the idea that ships in 3303 can't do what my GFX card can do today, I'm not seeing the issue here.

- - - Updated - - -



Only way? No. Best way of those I've seen suggested IMHO since it allows me to enjoy the game they put effort into making look good while doing that role? Yes.

Have you played Frontier:elite 2 or FFE ?

What Ulfar is talking about work smooth and feels quite natural, in the older games even the biggst ship had only for weapon mounts, 2 of those turrets, one on top, one below exactly above each other, those could pretty much target every thing around the ship excep a small disk in the middle, and take really big guns, it was working more like a tank.

If you tracked a target on the top turret downwards and it went out of the arc of the top turret you seamlessly and automaticly switched to the lower turret.

I would argue that system provided superior view to what was shown, in the beta video where you often had to rotate awkwardly around the ship to get the targets in view.

Now sadly lots of ships have less well placed, more numerous smaller turrets in ED, so this would not work as well, but instead Frontire could add the same camera, and use the system they have in place, to make it asign targets to the distributed turrets.
Basicly like a tank commander would to his gunner.

Guess about 3rd person we do disagree its the best solution, often restrictions ar what makes good gameplay, just as limiting yaw benifits the dogfighting.

 

[SeeZaa]

hello, i am 12 and what is this?

do you remember when you were like 6 or 7, and a friend would throw themselves on the floor, kicking and screaming over a lost crayon, or wanting a chocolate you had, or having to share a toy with you, or having to wear socks, or that sort of thing?? this is a bit like that, but these tantrums are coming from adults who should really know better by now.. although, still just as funny to watch

 

[fademist]

Have you played Frontier:elite 2 or FFE ?

What Ulfar is talking about work smooth and feels quite natural, in the older games even the biggst ship had only for weapon mounts, 2 of those turrets, one on top, one below exactly above each other, those could pretty much target every thing around the ship excep a small disk in the middle, and take really big guns, it was working more like a tank.

If you tracked a target on the top turret downwards and it went out of the arc of the top turret you seamlessly and automaticly switched to the lower turret.

I would argue that system provided superior view to what was shown, in the beta video where you often had to rotate awkwardly around the ship to get the targets in view.

Now sadly lots of ships have less well placed, more numerous smaller turrets in ED, so this would not work as well, but instead Frontire could add the same camera, and use the system they have in place, to make it asign targets to the distributed turrets.
Basicly like a tank commander would to his gunner.

Guess about 3rd person we do disagree its the best solution, often restrictions ar what makes good gameplay, just as limiting yaw benifits the dogfighting.

or u bought a battle computer and was autopilot with u just hit the trigger

 

[House0fDerp]

Have you played Frontier:lite 2 or FFE ?

What Ulfar is talking about work smooth and feels quite natural, in the older games even the biggst ship had only for weapon mounts, 2 of those turrets, one on top, one below exactly above each other, those could pretty much target every thing around the ship excep a small disk in the middle, and take really big guns, it was working more like a tank.

If you tracked a target on the top turret downwards and it went out of the arc of the top turret you seamlessly and automaticly switched to the lower turret.

I would argue that system provided superior view to what was shown, in the beta video where you often had to rotate awkwardly around the ship to get the targets in view.

Now sadly lots of ships have less well placed, more numerous smaller turrets in ED, so this would not work as well, but instead Frontire could add the same camera, and use the system they have in place, to make it asign targets to the distributed turrets.
Basicly like a tank commander would to his gunner.

"Works smooth and feels natural" isn't an opinion we share. I don't find a hard view shift to feel natural. Appropriate when you assume certain constraints on the vessel, but those constraints weren't built into E: D in any appreciable way, or at all really.

 

[Trash Gordon]

"Works smooth and feels natural" isn't an opinion we share. I don't find a hard view shift to feel natural. Appropriate when you assume certain constraints on the vessel, but those constraints weren't built into E: D in any appreciable way, or at all really.

I maybe nitpicking, but there is actually no view shifting in the Elite 2´s implementation your turret camera seamlessly goes through through the ship and comes out below, just tested it with dosbox.

The only hard change is switching from having the ship hull below you to suddenly, having it above, but I like that as an indication where the ship is pointing in relation to where I´m watching, its and surprisingly sophisticated systm for such an old game.

 

[KingTurtle]

i know right, its like someone turning down a ceramic blade for preparing sushi, because a flint blade is more traditional/nostalgic/difficult ?? i think im going to have to quote myself from another thread.. its actually probably better suited to this thread anyhoos..

If our ship is so advanced then how come the pilot can't use this system? Flying a ship with a 3rd person perspective would be way more help to the pilot, than flying with an inside from the ship. Why is an autodock in 3303 not already implemented into every ship's computer? It would reduce the number of crashing incidents at every stations and allow pilots to plot their next course or check station commodities.

Guess what? There goes your "this is future technology" argument.

 

[House0fDerp]

Hmm thats not an opinion,

Whether that option is more "smooth" or "natural," with those being subjective qualities, is indeed a matter of opinion.

I maybe nitpicking, but there is actually no view shifting in the Elite 2´s implementation your turret camera seamlessly goes through through the ship and comes out below, just tested it with dosbox.

That would be a view shift. Your point of view is shifting.

The only hard change is switching from having the ship hull below you to suddenly, having it above, but I like that as an indication where the ship is pointing in relation to where I´m watching, its and surprisingly sophisticated systm for such an old game.

How are you losing that orientation in the proposed 3rd person camera?

Also sure, I can grant you that it may seem novel by the standard of that time, maybe we can go better.

 

[House0fDerp]

Guess what? There goes your "this is future technology" argument.

Sure, if we're taking the stance that everything except the tech needed to make a space faring vessel has regressed to a state before our current real world standards.

Which begs the question, in 3303 are we just terribly bad at computing and creative use of technology? Is that the intended premise here? I have to ask because it seems more and more we're coming back to the same defenses for functions like this not being possible due to looking at other functions that rightly should exist but don't. Like some sort of recursive logic that says since something hasn't existed as the games stands it logically cannot exist because it isn't already there.