Resolving the Griefer Issues

[Noctover]

I remember gate camping a hub system in Eve Online many many years ago, thousands and thousands of players were killed. In response, CCP (the devs) sent several Concord battleships manned by the DEVs themselves to clear out the threat..

It has been considered ever since a mistake to interfere with the community in that way.

 

[verminstar]

Not the worst suggestion Ive seen, but not the best either. Im taking much more of a back seat as regards how to fix open play...according to some, its not even broken so let them fix it while I play my game quite happy because I dont have to deal with them.

Its an open issue...let open players sort it out between themselves ^

 

[Kyokushin]

I remember gate camping a hub system in Eve Online many many years ago, thousands and thousands of players were killed. In response, CCP (the devs) sent several Concord battleships manned by the DEVs themselves to clear out the threat..

It has been considered ever since a mistake to interfere with the community in that way.

And thats how it should be done. By an in-game-world existing tools like strong police, battlecruisers, very good AI military/police skill.
Not artifical regulations like flags, game modes etc.

I am not meaning an intervetion, but rather crime&punish system.

 

[Agony_Aunt]

No.
Its the worst idea ever.
Let imagine a folks who will be able to taunt other who will have pvp flag off.
Welcome to ultimate troll world

Passive mode exists in GTA Online, seems to work ok there.

 

[grumpsalot]

No.
Its the worst idea ever.
Let imagine a folks who will be able to taunt other who will have pvp flag off.
Welcome to ultimate troll world

Give me an example of how a player @ PvE could taunt a player @ PvP and perhaps more importantly how that's a greater inconvenience than the current state of the game.

 

[StarfireIX]

And thats how it should be done. By an in-game-world existing tools like strong police, battlecruisers, very good AI military/police skill.
Not artifical regulations like flags, game modes etc.

I am not meaning an intervetion, but rather crime&punish system.

It won't make a difference. You can simply tank NPCs and high wake within 5 seconds. People complain in other games like Battlefield about trolls and grievers. DayZ has gone through the exact same problem as ED, and the only counter is to fight back, respect your death, or high wake smartly.

However there should be server settings for Private Groups, such as friendly fire or turning off ship damage by players. Overall Elite is meant to be "Dangerous", where's the fun in that?

 

[CMDR_Elver]

Nah, there is a general problem with Crime and punishment in the game allowing griefing and ganking to persist without any consequences. This can be sorted out with a little imagination and logic. The game doesn't need moderators flying around telling people of like naughty school kids. If serious bullying is going on like trolling on social media then the moderators should step in. If just causal ganking against say Community goals this should not be moderated, instead the DEV's should work on making the C&P systems logical for a start. There are tons of ideas out there!

 

[Rakaposhi]

I'm not sure what moderators in a ship that can't die or kill the Griefers will do to solve the problem. If they are going to sanction the Griefers, FD can just do it from logs.

The problem is that the banning actions need to be objective.

• What constitutes a fair fight?
• If someone is role-playing a Griefer, is that allowed?
• If a player insults a vastly superior ship, is the resulting fight "fair"?
• How do powers affect what is Griefing and what is not?

It's an impossible position for FD. If they make bounties attractive to players, then we get gold selling. If they introduce a tracking system for players with bounties, the Griefers will just use that to hunt down players who accidently shot a Security Ship at the Nav Beacon.

The only real solution IMO is to leave Open as it is and introduce some form of PvE Open for players that want to play with others, but without the risk of being ganked. We sort of have that (to a degree) in Mobius, but it's still a trust system, and has limited player numbers.

 

[Kyokushin]

Give me an example of how a player @ PvE could taunt a player @ PvP and perhaps more importantly how that's a greater inconvenience than the current state of the game.

Me. In a case of pvp flag i will turn off pvp flag then bait and taunt anyone, of course in a borders of not getting banned. Its the art of trolling.
As an experienced troll i can say a pvp flag is the worst idea ever.

Problem of griefing does not exists in Elite, as i wrote above - there is few griefers and if you do not want to play with them, then you have several of possibilities to avoid them in Openplay.
Community want to play Elite as an space engine and they are refusing any possibilities of developing their skill, want to nerf even rocks.

Passive mode exists in GTA Online, seems to work ok there.

In my opinion not. And GTA is different kind of multiplayer game than ED.

 

[Phazon Xenomorph]

If I may direct you to that instructional video called "The Git Gud Guide To Trading In Open" if you haven't already seen it:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh9AWV_BWo0

I loved this video (and nice using the Alien Isolation music track while you were about to be interdicted). It's like people deliberately hurt themselves and then cry on the forums about the big mean gankers when many logical steps exist to not be bad.

 

[NeilF]

Greetings,

With thousands of posts over a number of years about dealing with griefers with no real solutions why don't we take it to the next level?

We are on a Forum. We have Moderators. From what I have seen they cannot remove a post (or maybe they can but choose not to) but can move posts to the appropriate sub forum and close them when appropriate.

Maybe we should have Moderators in the game as well. They cannot change the status of a player's account but will be flying around in Imperial Couriers with unlimited shielding and massive weapons only the top three ships have access to. In FE2 I had an Eagle with a Plasma Accelerator and a 3000LY jump range. Easy to do in ED. Thus when griefers are identified in a system they are going to have serious issues when the Moderators show up. Community Goals are different but new players getting killed just starting the game or those moments as in the current Beta 2.3 testing when many greifers take advantage of live players they will meet the Moderators.

There is no solution between PvE and PvP. Frontier maybe missed this point. There are different approaches to the game and will always be in conflict. So if we nerf the balance towards PvP maybe Moderators with serious ships could make a difference. Nothing else has worked so far.

Just an idea. Discuss/debate it but if it turns into a yelling fest like so many posts do then I'll ask a Moderator to close it. I do wish when a few people arguing back and forth add so many posts one has to wade through versus intelligent discussion the Moderators could help. But I figure that they are limited. I feel your frustration!

Regards

The galaxy is a big place... CMDRs end up in different instances... etc...

Surely far better for the game to simply implement some logical penalties to reign in habitual unwanted illegal destruction? ie: Once you've illegally destroyed X CMDRs in period Y you start getting a quickly increasing set of penalties applied to you - https://forums.frontier.co.uk/showt...-Reputation-quot-and-quot-Risk-Hot-Spots-quot

eg: Imagine a time where the game has given up warning you not to continue illegally destroying Pilots Federation members, but when some stations won't even let you dock? Some system won't even give you a permit (so you can't go there)? You have a constant bounty no matter where you are? You appear on other CMDRs scanners (in/out of SC) highlighted as a known "Psycho"... etc... etc...

I'm certain some simple logic and penalties could bring about a far more logical and less toxic environment in OPEN.

 

[Sundae]

You want a solution to the "griefer" issue?

How about this: GET GOOD AND HARDEN THE UP.

Open belongs to the griefers. When you enter this mode, you are entering OUR house.

 

[Pville_Piper]

Can we have a separate forum and move all the useless griefer suggestions to that one?

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

You want a solution to the "griefer" issue?

How about this: GET GOOD AND HARDEN THE UP.

Open belongs to the griefers. When you enter this mode, you are entering OUR house.

There's one!
Everyone! Quick, grab your pitchforks!

Open doesn't belong to the griefers, you're a tiny minority, that can easily be ignored.

 

[Sundae]

There's one!
Everyone! Quick, grab your pitchforks!

Open doesn't belong to the griefers, you're a tiny minority, that can easily be ignored.

We're the minority that matters. As evidenced by the 10,000 whiny threads about us.

Signed,

Sun "Open is my PG" Dae

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

Can we have a separate forum and move all the useless griefer suggestions to that one?

We do, no one goes there. It's called the Feedback and Suggestions subsection/basement.
I lurk their all day. Watching. Waiting. And spamming ideas no one likes.

 

[Rinzler o7o7o7]

It's funny how the people throwing around the most ludicrous suggestions regarding so-called "griefers" are also the players that have no idea how to actually escape an unwanted encounter against a larger ship.

Study up, git gud, watch one of the many guides out there (one has even been linked in this thread already), and you'll find that it's hilariously easy to escape any encounter.

 

[grumpsalot]

Me. In a case of pvp flag i will turn off pvp flag then bait and taunt anyone

2 points about this:

1. You can "bait and taunt anyone" in the manner described already.
2. It would be completely ineffective, PvE'ers would be able to ignore you.

Happy to listen & respond if you've got a stronger argument to present.

 

[Kyokushin]

2. It would be completely ineffective, PvE'ers would be able to ignore you

Just leave it to me
Effectiveness is my second name.

 

[CMDR Cosmic Spacehead]

It's funny how the people throwing around the most ludicrous suggestions regarding so-called "griefers" are also the players that have no idea how to actually escape an unwanted encounter against a larger ship.

Study up, git gud, watch one of the many guides out there (one has even been linked in this thread already), and you'll find that it's hilariously easy to escape any encounter.

While I don't like to use 'git gud' it's getting to that point now.

I've died once in an unwanted PvP encounter. In 18 months.
Escape is child's play.

The one time I did die was mostly down to my own massive error anyway.
I was undocking, and a CMDR with a torpedo/multicannon Anaconda launched a full salvo at my ship, and I went to hit boost, but my gear was down. And my gamepad stopped working too. (It'd been playing up for weeks, I got a new one now!) Lol

I'd already evaded him once on the way in, which I guess is why he hung around waiting for me. Lol